Broken Leaf Spring Pack Locating Bolt

[Steven@147]

I guess I feel pretty lucky with just two broken rear wet bolts and ruined hangers at 21,000 trailer miles. With the rear axle spring disconnected for gosh knows how many hundreds of miles and the permanent rear axle and four rear hangers misaligned as built by Lippert, I'm just glad we didn't lose an axle somewhere. Like you, I'm concerned about the stress on the CREs which weren't replaced.

John you certainly had your multiple issues with your rig and can still stay calm about it, but I am sure you are frustrated, but good for you.

 

[Chaps2018]

Absolutely brilliant way to keep the axles position while doing bushings, equalizers, wetbolts, etc.

 

[ajg617]

John you certainly had your multiple issues with your rig and can still stay calm about it, but I am sure you are frustrated, but good for you.

Thanks Steve,
I'm just writing this year off. More important things in life than scheduled repairs and GD is covering the costs. But I can't imagine what you went through and the sudden way it occurred and where it happened. I would have been beside myself. Really glad you were close to family that could help out. And your post makes me appreciate that I probably don't have the equipment I should have for something like this. Worst case, maybe I'll go back to work this year and pocket the earnings for future repairs.

 

[Steven@147]

OP, that is a great price on those springs! They sound like the Dexter 072-098-00 springs on my rig. They are hard to find (Anythingtruck.com had the best price at $144 delivered).

Those are exactly the springs we have on our rig.

 

[Steven@147]

Our rig is still at the Lippert shop waiting for new hangers but the tech noted that none of the spring bolts are centered in the perches correctly. I have two new extra springs, I might ask him to replace all four given what just happened to you, especially since both axles are being dropped.

When replacing spring bolts (wet bolts) you have got to first make sure the knurled end is set deep in the side of the hanger AND make sure the shoulder of the bolt on the other end is sticking through the opposite side of the hanger. If the techs doing the work replacing the spring bolts (wet bolts)do not ensure the shoulder of the bolt sticks all the way through the opposite hanger, the only thing holding the bolt in there are the end threads of the bolt. The end of the bolt threads will snap right off.
Actually the nut torques up against the shoulder of the spring bolt not the hanger itself. That is why I always use a "C" clamp to hold the hanger sides together when installing new wet bolts (spring bolts) and make sure the shoulder of the bolt is through the opposite side of the hanger.

 

[ajg617]

When replacing spring bolts (wet bolts) you have got to first make sure the knurled end is set deep in the side of the hanger AND make sure the shoulder of the bolt on the other end is sticking through the opposite side of the hanger. If the techs doing the work replacing the spring bolts (wet bolts)do not ensure the shoulder of the bolt sticks all the way through the opposite hanger, the only thing holding the bolt in there are the end threads of the bolt. The end of the bolt threads will snap right off.
Actually the nut torques up against the shoulder of the spring bolt not the hanger itself. That is why I always use a "C" clamp to hold the hanger sides together when installing new wet bolts (spring bolts) and make sure the shoulder of the bolt is through the opposite side of the hanger.

Well, I now expect some other issues to be uncovered. I watched the tech in Montana put the wet bolts in - breaker bar on the bolt to hold it in place and a torque wrench on the nut side. I did not see him set the knurled end in first but he was replacing existing wet bolts so that might have allowed them to slip into the old splines. The U-bolts he torqued evenly, but he did it one side at a time so the spring bolts aren't centered in the perches and the U-bolts are not in the same position on the axles as the originals - I can see that from the marks around the axle tubes. Guess that's why I'm a bit concerned about the condition of the perch holes and the spring bolts that go into them.

 

[WhittleBurner]

How on earth did you get Lippert to help out on this?

We called and explained what had happened. Lippert has repair trucks on the road like Grand Design does. They send them where they are needed. They have come through for us several times.

 

[WhittleBurner]

How on earth did you get Lippert to help out on this?

What Gary forgot to say was our hanger did not "break" off it literally fell off with only about an inch of good weld. The rest of the weld was nonexsistant with plenty of rust showing there wasn't contact. It was amazing it held on as long as it did. Lippert came because of the lack of weld, it became a safety issue at that point.

 

[dryfly]

Absolutely brilliant way to keep the axles position while doing bushings, equalizers, wetbolts, etc.
View attachment 51767

I built one if these the last time I changed out my wet bolts. Works great. Now I'm starting to think maybe I should carry one with me. Another thing to find a place for...........................

[MENTION=8842]Steven@147[/MENTION] Does a 2X4 notched provide enough area on the axles to stay in place when you move the trailer? It worked fine for me while working on a stabilized trailer, but I'm wondering if notching a 2X6 would provide for more area to capture the 3" axle.

I guess with both axles cinched up tight with the ratchet straps there's little chance the 2X4 is going anywhere.

 

[Steven@147]

I built one if these the last time I changed out my wet bolts. Works great. Now I'm starting to think maybe I should carry one with me. Another thing to find a place for...........................

[MENTION=8842]Steven@147[/MENTION] Does a 2X4 notched provide enough area on the axles to stay in place when you move the trailer? It worked fine for me while working on a stabilized trailer, but I'm wondering if notching a 2X6 would provide for more area to capture the 3" axle.

I guess with both axles cinched up tight with the ratchet straps there's little chance the 2X4 is going anywhere.

Maybe not a 2x4 and moving the trailer down the road, it works good for just changing equalizers, bushings and bolts out.

For those wondering about why some of us use a board like this when changing suspension parts, my jacks that I put under the axles between the U-bolts when changing parts, the jacks cradle doesn't surround the axle tube tight enough so the axle could move a little forward or aft when you take things apart. As anyone that has replaced bushings and bolts and such knows the spring eyes have to be perfectly aligned with the frame hanger holes or the wet bolts will not go in correctly.

but your idea of a 2x6 would sure be wide enough though to more surround the axle tube to help keep it in place cinched down tight with a ratchet strap. I hope never again to have to find out.

 

[Steven@147]

Got to crawling around under the rig inspecting things for damage, could have been a lot worse, I'm not complaining. The left rear J panel is a little bent up along the bottom and the nearest support in the pic is loose. We had to pull the J skirt out to get the tire off.

All the the hangers look good although a little rusty, clean up with wire brush and paint them with rust corrosion paint. Hanger pic is the left rear. Left side suspension seems all in line now.

You can see on the Left rear axle saddle how it's marred up, that was caused by one of the 3 remaining leaf springs was jammed up against it. That's why we couldn't get the left rear axle pulled fully back straight when we were trying to get the rig off the highway. The U bolts we took off were bent.

I'm changing out both the equalizers, all the bushings and wet bolts to be sure everything is ok. When I'm doing that I'll loosen up the U bolts and get them straight. In our hustle to get everything back together we got the U bolts a little separated.

 

[Steven@147]

right side rear axle. You can see some of the rubber from the tire rub on the axle. The right rear tire was rubbing on the equalizer and shackle. Cleaned a lot off before I took the pic. The right rear axle leaf spring - one of the leafs is just a hair out of line with the rest of the leafs but otherwise ok. Frame hangers on the right side look ok.

When I replaced all the leaf springs back in April I had torqued the new Ubolts to 65 ft lbs. that is what GD said they should be torqued at. We checked all the U bolts on all the axles when we replaced the broken spring that night in the parking lot and some were a tad loose, maybe 5 ft lbs or so after 1300 miles. Bolt stretch? All are retorqued at 65 ft lbs.

I could not find any bent or any cracks on any of the frame hangers. For as much as we complain about Lippert's frame hangers and their welding, I guess we are really lucky! At 60 mph We could have lost the whole rear axle.

Anyway I have new equalizers, bushings and wet bolts on the way with 4 new tires coming also. The rear axle tires are damaged from being dragged sideways and rubbing. The left front tire is damaged because it was the only tire supporting the entire left side weight of the RV, I'm sure the belts were stressed.

Probably the only Sailun tire not damaged was the right front, but hey might as well get 4. I might have this tire moved to the spare and get rig of the 5 year old spare Westlake.

 

[SSROSS]

Every time I have ever replaced U bolts the rule of thumb is to retorque after traveling 500 miles because of bolt stretching. Good luck and safe travels after all of this.

 

[Steven@147]

This is all that was left of the leaf spring pack bolt. The rest of it is out on the Interstate somewhere along with 3 of the leafs from the spring. It was stuck in the axle spring perch locating hole. I dug it out with tweezers.

This whole incident has left me with a lack of confidence over all. Are the parts I am using to service my rig of good quality? Maybe Also second guessing my abilities and whether or not I did something wrong when replacing my leaf springs back in April?

On the one hand all the wet bolts, UBolts, frame hangers and such held up to this kind of severe stress, on the other hand this one little bolt caused a lot of heartache!
"If" this one little bolt was of inferior quality, what about the other 3 spring packs, if the bolt was bad, are the other bolts in the other 3 springs possibly marginal as well? See what I'm saying?

 

[geotex1]

Umph! Feeling your pain, Steve! Glad you were well-prepared to get yourselves off the highway and then back together! We are inching up on 50K on our 3350, and just back from 3 weeks in Maine. It's always something, unfortunately. We have a couple wounds from the trip. One of our Kodiak disc brake calipers decided the time camping in the salt air of the Maine coast was not what it wanted. New hub-rotor and 250 caliper on their way. The other pretty bizarre occurrence in traveling down a road in Massachusetts lined with old black walnut trees we apparently struck a pod that went right through the Winegard 360 shattering the dome and leaving the pod! Had no idea till traveling through the storms, stopped at a rest stop, and opened the camper to find the hall flooded. Apparently, GD feels a 2.5 inch hole necessary for a pair of coax cables with no seal whatsoever. Glad the 360 is right above the hall led light that acted like a drain!

 

[ajg617]

Got to crawling around under the rig inspecting things for damage, could have been a lot worse, I'm not complaining. The left rear J panel is a little bent up along the bottom and the nearest support in the pic is loose. We had to pull the J skirt out to get the tire off.

All the the hangers look good although a little rusty, clean up with wire brush and paint them with rust corrosion paint. Hanger pic is the left rear. Left side suspension seems all in line now.

You can see on the Left rear axle saddle how it's marred up, that was caused by one of the 3 remaining leaf springs was jammed up against it. That's why we couldn't get the left rear axle pulled fully back straight when we were trying to get the rig off the highway. The U bolts we took off were bent.

I'm changing out both the equalizers, all the bushings and wet bolts to be sure everything is ok. When I'm doing that I'll loosen up the U bolts and get them straight. In our hustle to get everything back together we got the U bolts a little separated.

That weld would cause me some concern. Also in your last picture, that is exactly what our U-bolt, perch, axle markings look like after all our springs were replaced in Montana. According to the LCI tech, the springs (and bolts) are not centered in the perches. You can see where the original U-bolt marks on the axles were on ours and the new U-bolts are not in the same place. According to the tech, this is apparently common when replacing the springs on one side at a time without the entire RV lifted evenly. Here's a pic of our left front perch - which the tech is saying isn't centered properly. I don't understand that since its a bolt that goes into a hole which shouldn't allow for much side-to-side movement. But clearly, the new U-bolts aren't sitting where the old ones were.

 

[dryfly]

Maybe not a 2x4 and moving the trailer down the road, it works good for just changing equalizers, bushings and bolts out.



but your idea of a 2x6 would sure be wide enough though to more surround the axle tube to help keep it in place cinched down tight with a ratchet strap. I hope never again to have to find out.

ss

OK. Going back and looking at the pics I misunderstood when you used the 2X4. What I was thinking is that in an emergency situation like yours, putting the wood brace between the axles and using the ratchet straps to cinch everything up tight would make a reasonably secure setup to get a short distance at slow speed. Locking the axles together.

Would your configuration of the ratchet straps worked had it been the front axle?

 

[Steven@147]

ss

OK. Going back and looking at the pics I misunderstood when you used the 2X4. What I was thinking is that in an emergency situation like yours, putting the wood brace between the axles and using the ratchet straps to cinch everything up tight would make a reasonably secure setup to get a short distance at slow speed. Locking the axles together.

Would your configuration of the ratchet straps worked had it been the front axle?

No using just the strap between the axles would not work if it was the front axle. Yes a brace reasonably secure set up as long a the board was wedged in there tight.

With our specific failure of the left rear leaf spring coming apart, the ratchet strap by itself was fine and worked because I was pulling the RV forward. Keep in mind that the ratchet strap on the left side was also holding the right side tire in somewhat of a straight line. In effect the front axle on the left side was dragging the rear axle left side along via the ratchet strap but also keeping the right side rear tire tracking somewhat straight.

Also think about this, the wet bolts and frame hangers on the left side of the front axle and the left front leaf spring were bearing the brunt of dragging the rear axle left side along. AND with the total weight of the left side of the RV on just that single left front leaf spring, tire, wet bolts and frame hanger. We got lucky it worked and nothing else broke or the left front tire did not blow! We had to remove the left side rear tire to clear the J skirting.

This would only work pulling the RV forward but would not work if I had to back up the RV.

It if had been the front axle spring that came apart, No, my emergency fix with the strap between the axles would not have worked. I would have had to put ratchet strap around the front axle and run it forward to some part at the front of the RV, maybe the mid leveling jack frame mount or something in the very front of the RV. Then maybe use a second strap between the axles.

Now talking about a brace between the axles - if you place a brace (wood/metal) between the axles and strap them tight together, you effectively have a push/pull effect and you have the brace to keep the axles from separating or getting too close to eachother. The rear axle can push the front axle along because of the brace or vice versas, the front axle can drag the rear axle along.

When you think about all the dynamics going on here, it depends on what in the suspension breaks and where, phew, nightmares!

 

[Steven@147]

That weld would cause me some concern. Also in your last picture, that is exactly what our U-bolt, perch, axle markings look like after all our springs were replaced in Montana. According to the LCI tech, the springs (and bolts) are not centered in the perches. You can see where the original U-bolt marks on the axles were on ours and the new U-bolts are not in the same place. According to the tech, this is apparently common when replacing the springs on one side at a time without the entire RV lifted evenly. Here's a pic of our left front perch - which the tech is saying isn't centered properly. I don't understand that since its a bolt that goes into a hole which shouldn't allow for much side-to-side movement. But clearly, the new U-bolts aren't sitting where the old ones were.
View attachment 51793

Here's a better pic of our left rear replacement spring setting on the axle perch, it is setting square and in the middle of the perch. Yes the u bolt is cocked off when we replaced it, I will straighten it up when I get in there to replace all the suspension parts again.

I don't totally agree with the LCI tech. It seems to me it has nothing to do with not having the RV lifted up evenly. That axle spring perch doesn't care if the RV is up on level blocks of not! It's not moving!
The only way the leaf spring can be too far right, or left or forward or aft, (off centered from the perch) is if the hole in the axle spring perch is too big or drilled off center on the perch, or if the spring pack bolt/spacer is too small. Otherwise the leaf spring locating bolt is just bearly small enough to fit in the axle perch hole.

Now on ours after the failure, what was left of the spring pack bolt/nut was still in the axle spring perch hole. It was just bearly small enough to fit into the hole. Using the tip of my pocket knife I had to turn the broken bolt nut on its side and then lift it out with twisters.

 

[ajg617]

Here's a better pic of our left rear replacement spring setting on the axle perch, it is setting square and in the middle of the perch. Yes the u bolt is cocked off when we replaced it, I will straighten it up when I get in there to replace all the suspension parts again.

I don't totally agree with the LCI tech. It seems to me it has nothing to do with not having the RV lifted up evenly. That axle spring perch doesn't care if the RV is up on level blocks of not! It's not moving!
The only way the leaf spring can be too far right, or left or forward or aft, (off centered from the perch) is if the hole in the axle spring perch is too big or drilled off center on the perch, or if the spring pack bolt is too small. Otherwise the leaf spring locating bolt is just bearly small enough to fit in the axle perch hole.

Now on ours after the failure, what was left of the spring pack bolt/nut was still in the axle spring perch hole. It was just bearly small enough to fit into the hole. Using the tip of my pocket knife I had to turn the broken bolt nut on its side and then lift it out with twisters.

I kind of agree with you - just don't see how the bolt is not sitting in the hole correctly on ours with the spring appearing flat against the perch. I had a look at the RF u-bolt which is also not in the same position as it originally was. Both have the outer U-bolts sitting further towards the wheels with the older marks inside of the outer U-bolts. I'll be very curious to see how lined up everything is when he's done.