Broken Leaf Spring Pack Locating Bolt

I kind of agree with you - just don't see how the bolt is not sitting in the hole correctly on ours with the spring appearing flat against the perch. I had a look at the RF u-bolt which is also not in the same position as it originally was. Both have the outer U-bolts sitting further towards the wheels with the older marks inside of the outer U-bolts. I'll be very curious to see how lined up everything is when he's done.

One thing I have just now found out, I compared the top leaf spring replacement tie plates we bought with the new Ubolts to an original LCI installed top plate - They Are Not The Same.The replacement plate is too wide and the center hole is not in the same place. This will make the new UBolts if installed straight - not install in the same place on the axle tube as the old ones were and the U bolts will be further away from the springs and axle perch.

I only have one of the original LCI installed top tie plates - I through the others away.

Now the top plate setting on the upper locating pin, the LCI original plate is sloppy in other words the hole in the plate is a tad too big. The replacement tie plate is even more loose but not by much. There both pretty even sloppy.

As I recall when I installed the new leaf springs they set down into the axle perch holes good and not sloppy loose back and forth.
 

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Lots of discussion about centering... The key to shadetree centering is having the coach fully supported and the U-bolts on both sides of the axle loose. You can the lift the axle from its center and adjust as it's only it's self weight. Snug the bolts like this, but torque once on the ground and weight on the axle. If you make a roadside repair with the other end of the axle with tire on the ground you cannot get it centered, but you get off the road to a safe place to adjust. Fact of the matter, after a severe failure like this it's best to check alignment of both axles to one another and to the hitch pivot point. Finally, for a trailer spring pack, it's not a real doweled fit like automotive leaf springs. There's a fair amount of slop and each spring maker seems to use a little differently sized head for same dimension and capacity springs. All said, pretty primitive running gear that all you can do is tweak to get it as close as it can be. When ours grenaded in early ownership, LOTS of tweaking was done including needing to hack-off a spring hanger because it wasn't even close to parallel to the frame rail...
 
One thing I have just now found out, I compared the top leaf spring replacement tie plates we bought with the new Ubolts to an original LCI installed top plate - They Are Not The Same.The replacement plate is too wide and the center hole is not in the same place. This will make the UBolts not install in the same place as they were and further from the springs and axle perch.

I only have one of the original LCI installed top tie plates - I through the others away.

Well, they re-used the existing plates on ours as our repair parts pallet came with the wrong u-bolts (insufficient diameter to fit around the axle) and the custom u-bolts didn't come with plates.

But to [MENTION=26275]geotex1[/MENTION]'s follow-up, I believe he torqued the U-bolts with no wheels on one side and weight on the wheels on opposite side. Given Rob's description, not surprised if they aren't sitting correctly in the perch if there is any slop.

I think I posted this in another thread but I'll throw this out based upon why our rig has been in an LCI shop since June - the original welded hangers were not in line front to rear nor was the distance front-to-mid equal to mid-to-rear on the left side (cocking the whole rear axle towards the curb side) and he his replacing the four rear hangers. Keep in mind we likely dragged our right rear axle (spring eye disconnected at the back) for hundreds of miles last year. That had to put stress on every part of the suspension on both sides.
 
Lots of discussion about centering... The key to shadetree centering is having the coach fully supported and the U-bolts on both sides of the axle loose. You can the lift the axle from its center and adjust as it's only it's self weight. Snug the bolts like this, but torque once on the ground and weight on the axle. If you make a roadside repair with the other end of the axle with tire on the ground you cannot get it centered, but you get off the road to a safe place to adjust. Fact of the matter, after a severe failure like this it's best to check alignment of both axles to one another and to the hitch pivot point. Finally, for a trailer spring pack, it's not a real doweled fit like automotive leaf springs. There's a fair amount of slop and each spring maker seems to use a little differently sized head for same dimension and capacity springs. All said, pretty primitive running gear that all you can do is tweak to get it as close as it can be. When ours grenaded in early ownership, LOTS of tweaking was done including needing to hack-off a spring hanger because it wasn't even close to parallel to the frame rail...

Hey Rob. I hear ya, but Somehow I just can't buy it. At the most the leaf spring pin might move around in the axle perch hole 1/32 or 1/64 of an inch if that, but not nearly enough to make that much of a difference. I can not believe the LCI assembly line workers set around lining the springs pins up in the perch hole within a 1/32 or 1/64 of an inch. Even if they did it would not stay there that long. As soon as the Transport driver grabbed it and towed it a few 100 miles or slammed on the brakes a couple times, the spring could move on the perch that much. It's much more reasonable to think that they just set the springs in the perches, put the Ubolts on loose, hook the springs up to the hangers and then the center equalizer, then bolt everything down.They are not going to fuss around with a 1/32 of an inch play with the pin in the hole.

Which is how I installed my springs, set the spring in the axle perch hole, flat on the axle perch, tightened up the Ubolts, connected spring eyes to the equalizer and the frame hanger and torqued to spec which aligns the leaf spring fore and aft, then torqued the spring Ubolts. The springs were still setting flat on the axle perch.

Heck just our broken spring pack bolt nut was so close in size to the perch hole I had trouble getting it out and that doesn't even count the bolt collar that actually centers the spring in the axle perch hole and was missing!

But the common thing I see in both your and [MENTION=32339]ajg617[/MENTION] cases is the frame hangers were in the wrong place or welded crooked to the frame. That would make a huge difference.

Also what could make a difference is the leaf spring top tie plates being too wide this puts the Ubolts away from the springs and the perch as seen the some attached pictures, possibly allowing the leaf spring to rotate a little. With the LCI top tie plate the Ubolts would be right beside or near touching the springs and perches not allowing for a possibility for the leaf spring to rotate..

But hey I've been wrong before,
 
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Just seeing this post for the first time. What a horrible experience! Bad enough to have these kind of problems, but along a busy interstate makes it many times worse. There are many sections of Interstate that are so bad now, when we encounter them we will drive 30-40 miles out of our way to get on a 2 lane blacktop. Many sections of brand new Interstate are even very washboardy and we get off. Entering bridge "bumps" has become scary for us. I've had to replace springs twice, axles once and even had truck tires delaminate at bridges.
Very glad you and your wife were able to weather this storm.

Dustin
 
Sometimes life's lessons are painful and dangerous. I will admit I am partially to blame for our failure.

I read, and was told yesterday by a trailer service shop, the number one reason for a leaf spring tie bolt to break is loose Ubolts. With Ubolts too loose, the leaf spring on rough roads can slip on the axle spring perch and snap off the tie bolt.

After replacing our leaf springs back in April, I initially torqued the Ubolts to 65 ft lbs, I failed to retorque the Ubolts soon enough.
Our trip from TX to IN, we stopped over night three times. At the first stop over I did check the torque on the tire lug nuts and all were still tight at 110 ft lbs. But I didn't retorque the Ubolts. I had intended when we got to our destination, to go around and again check all the bolt torque. That was too late. With the bad potholed highway on our last @70 miles and Ubolts now loosened up after stretching, it was too much for the one leaf spring tie bolt.

I've also learned through research now, that most leaf spring tie bolts are only a grade 2 bolt. Most leaf spring manufacturers won't even list what grade the tie bolt is.
The spring pack tie bolt is to just hold the leafs of the spring together and center the springs on the axle perch, the Ubolts are what actually holds the leafs together and tight to the axle. Leaf spring tie bolts are available separately from places like E-Trailer, in different sizes and lengths. Some websites will list the bolt strength up to a grade 8 but most of the time they won't list the grading.

Also initially GDRV said for our specific year of RV the axle Ubolts should be torqued to 65 ft lbs. Now I have also learned through research that generically sites say that for 1/2 Ubolts they should be torqued to 70 ft lbs. So I think I'll retorque our Ubolts to 70 ft lbs.
 
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I had the same thing happen driving in Destruction Bay, fixed it once didn't last ended up swapping out the worst tire with the spare and used two racket straps until we got to Tok, for a replacement spring that was the wrong size, ended up replacing all the springs and two tires in Fairbanks. BTW the correct spring length is 25.25" 6 leaf. I have the same trailer.

It ended up bending the axle so the new tires were junk after 6000 miles. I replaced the axle myself and just broke the same spring 2 years later and probably 35-40k. The existing springs are flat so time for new springs, bushings and heavy duty shackles and wet bolts.
 
I had the same thing happen driving in Destruction Bay, fixed it once didn't last ended up swapping out the worst tire with the spare and used two racket straps until we got to Tok, for a replacement spring that was the wrong size, ended up replacing all the springs and two tires in Fairbanks. BTW the correct spring length is 25.25" 6 leaf. I have the same trailer.
.

A long time ago I sent the axle tag info to Dexter and they sent back the axle information. Our leaf springs are listed as 26 inch double eye. That is a loaded spring length. Unloaded spring length is 24 7/8 which can vary depending on the web site you look at. But the important thing is the 26 inch double eye loaded length.

Dexter axle number 7658660 or GDRV axle number 120087 - includes a Dexter leaf spring #072-098-02 w/bronze bushing or 072-098-00 no bushing- which translates to an Etrailer part # e64SR.

https://www.dexterpartsonline.com/search?searchwords=072-098-02&searchsmall_564852022=Search

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Leaf-Springs/etrailer/e64SR.html
 

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A long time ago I sent the axle tag info to Dexter and they sent back the axle information. Our leaf springs are listed as 26 inch double eye. That is a loaded spring length. Unloaded spring length is 24 7/8 which can vary depending on the web site you look at. But the important thing is the 26 inch double eye loaded length.

Dexter axle number 7658660 or GDRV axle number 120087 - includes a Dexter leaf spring #072-098-02 w/bronze bushing or 072-098-00 no bushing- which translates to an Etrailer part # e64SR.
Good point. That is something I probably should have done when GD sent the pallet of parts last year - verify springs were correct with Dexter. I just assumed GD would send the correct parts - it was called a kit. Correct number of leafs, but given that the U-bolts were too small to fit around the axles, I probably should have verified the springs in particular with Dexter. I had taken the same pictures early on so I had the information.
 
Hey Rob. I hear ya, but Somehow I just can't buy it. At the most the leaf spring pin might move around in the axle perch hole 1/32 or 1/64 of an inch if that, but not nearly enough to make that much of a difference. I can not believe the LCI assembly line workers set around lining the springs pins up in the perch hole within a 1/32 or 1/64 of an inch. Even if they did it would not stay there that long. As soon as the Transport driver grabbed it and towed it a few 100 miles or slammed on the brakes a couple times, the spring could move on the perch that much. It's much more reasonable to think that they just set the springs in the perches, put the Ubolts on loose, hook the springs up to the hangers and then the center equalizer, then bolt everything down.They are not going to fuss around with a 1/32 of an inch play with the pin in the hole.

Which is how I installed my springs, set the spring in the axle perch hole, flat on the axle perch, tightened up the Ubolts, connected spring eyes to the equalizer and the frame hanger and torqued to spec which aligns the leaf spring fore and aft, then torqued the spring Ubolts. The springs were still setting flat on the axle perch.

Heck just our broken spring pack bolt nut was so close in size to the perch hole I had trouble getting it out and that doesn't even count the bolt collar that actually centers the spring in the axle perch hole and was missing!

But the common thing I see in both your and [MENTION=32339]ajg617[/MENTION] cases is the frame hangers were in the wrong place or welded crooked to the frame. That would make a huge difference.

Also what could make a difference is the leaf spring top tie plates being too wide this puts the Ubolts away from the springs and the perch as seen the some attached pictures, possibly allowing the leaf spring to rotate a little. With the LCI top tie plate the Ubolts would be right beside or near touching the springs and perches not allowing for a possibility for the leaf spring to rotate..

But hey I've been wrong before,

Lol, Steve! Never saw the updates till another post on the thread. FWIW, LCI did not deliver rolling chassis for our era of builds. They were done at the hangers, and then frames were delivered stacked up. Dexter delivered fully loaded and sprung axles, and GD hung them on the line with little thought or care I'm sure.

I was really trying to say there can be a little or a lot of slop in the fit of the centering depending on what parts cane from what manufacturer. I have had Chinese made springs with 7mm pins needing to be centered on perches with 7/16" holes... Dexter's USA-made springs actually do dowel right into their perches, but do know they were selling off Redneck's spring inventory related with Dexter P/Ns buy those springs were mostly imported.
 
Sometimes life's lessons are painful and dangerous. I will admit I am partially to blame for our failure.

I read, and was told yesterday by a trailer service shop, the number one reason for a leaf spring tie bolt to break is loose Ubolts. With Ubolts too loose, the leaf spring on rough roads can slip on the axle spring perch and snap off the tie bolt.

After replacing our leaf springs back in April, I initially torqued the Ubolts to 65 ft lbs, I failed to retorque the Ubolts soon enough.
Our trip from TX to IN, we stopped over night three times. At the first stop over I did check the torque on the tire lug nuts and all were still tight at 110 ft lbs. But I didn't retorque the Ubolts. I had intended when we got to our destination, to go around and again check all the bolt torque. That was too late. With the bad potholed highway on our last @70 miles and Ubolts now loosened up after stretching, it was too much for the one leaf spring tie bolt.

I've also learned through research now, that most leaf spring tie bolts are only a grade 2 bolt. Most leaf spring manufacturers won't even list what grade the tie bolt is.
The spring pack tie bolt is to just hold the leafs of the spring together and center the springs on the axle perch, the Ubolts are what actually holds the leafs together and tight to the axle. Leaf spring tie bolts are available separately from places like E-Trailer, in different sizes and lengths. Some websites will list the bolt strength up to a grade 8 but most of the time they won't list the grading.

Also initially GDRV said for our specific year of RV the axle Ubolts should be torqued to 65 ft lbs. Now I have also learned through research that generically sites say that for 1/2 Ubolts they should be torqued to 70 ft lbs. So I think I'll retorque our Ubolts to 70 ft lbs.

Dexter's books for 1/2"x20 has the range of 45 to 70 ft-lbs, which is typical for Grade 2. In automobile applications, it's more like 90 ft-lbs for same size but Grade 5. As I installed the Roadmaster shock kit, long gone are OE U-bolts and tie plates...

One thing you might want to consider is having the calibration of your torque wrench checked.
 
Dexter's books for 1/2"x20 has the range of 45 to 70 ft-lbs, which is typical for Grade 2. In automobile applications, it's more like 90 ft-lbs for same size but Grade 5. As I installed the Roadmaster shock kit, long gone are OE U-bolts and tie plates...

One thing you might want to consider is having the calibration of your torque wrench checked.

Probably would not be a bad idea. I've had my torque wrench a long time and it wasn't a top of the line tool anyway. I always unload my torque wrench when done with it and almost never use it to loosen bolts. SIL retorqued all the U bolts on our repair night and said they were all loose. What that meant I don't know, 1/4, 1/2, full turn, 5, 10, 15 pounds loose, I don't know.

bolt grades, That's the issue with a lot of these websites or providers of various bolts, hardly ever do they tell you what grade they are. I recall several (4-5) years ago GDRV sent out a notice that Solitude and Momentum owners should have their axle Ubolts checked for proper torque. Back then it was like 65 ft lbs. Just recently within a year or so I believe there was another GDRV recall or notice on Solitudes/Momentums checking Ubolts and I think it was around 80 ft lbs, could be wrong about that thou.

Still pees me off, we would have made it to our final campground destination and I would have rechecked and retorqued everything and been alright, had we not come across 50 miles or so of terrible pot holded cratered highway. Indiana knows they have a problem with I70. Son lives in Indiana and said he read on a state gov website they are redesigning I 70 to be 3 lanes each way from the Ohio border to some point near Indianapolis. That will probably delay fixing the highway another 3 years! It was said Indiana is losing tourism because of their bad roads. They say it is because of the winters freezing and thawing. Bull, we have driven on highways in OH, IL, and SD, ND, WY, MT and their highways are not near as bad as Indiana. I guess I feel I can trash Indiana, I was born and raised here.
 
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Just recently within a year or so I believe there was another GDRV recall or notice on Solitudes/Momentums checking Ubolts and I think it was around 80 ft lbs, could be wrong about that thou.
I believe that last recall was for Curt axles only - I asked GD if it also applied to Dexter axles and U-bolts and the answer was no. Our 9/16 U-bolts were torqued to 90ft/lbs per direction for GD but just looking at Dexter's service manual for 2023, they should be between 100 and 120. Problem I have is GD sent the wrong size U-bolts. They were 9/16 but would not fit around the Dexter axles. Trailer shop in Columbia Falls, MT sourced locally made U-bolts so I am not sure if that impacts the torque specs or not.
 
I believe that last recall was for Curt axles only - I asked GD if it also applied to Dexter axles and U-bolts and the answer was no. Our 9/16 U-bolts were torqued to 90ft/lbs per direction for GD but just looking at Dexter's service manual for 2023, they should be between 100 and 120. Problem I have is GD sent the wrong size U-bolts. They were 9/16 but would not fit around the Dexter axles. Trailer shop in Columbia Falls, MT sourced locally made U-bolts so I am not sure if that impacts the torque specs or not.

Thanks for clarifying that. good luck with with all that, Curt or Dexter axles, what size and whether they have hex nuts or flanged nuts, what grade of bolts, then mix in aftermarket and you got yourself a delima. if you do a google search you'll come up with all kinds of Ubolt torque specs. here is thread on this forum back in 2017 and includes a Ubolt torque table. https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/showthread.php/14360-Does-anybody-know-what-U-bolt-torque-is.

I just read from one site ours should be 70-80 but that is just listed for 1/2 20. Always before I thought they should be 65. But like Rob said 45-70 is what dexter lists. So I'm thinking now about it ,,,,, 45-70 ft lbs, with that range how loose is too loose to avoid what happened to us?

Like that old saying, inquiring minds what to know,,,, LOLs
 
Thanks for clarifying that. good luck with with all that, Curt or Dexter axles, what size and whether they have hex nuts or flanged nuts, what grade of bolts, then mix in aftermarket and you got yourself a delima. if you do a google search you'll come up with all kinds of Ubolt torque specs. here is thread on this forum back in 2017 and includes a Ubolt torque table. https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/showthread.php/14360-Does-anybody-know-what-U-bolt-torque-is.

I just read from one site ours should be 70-80 but that is just listed for 1/2 20. Always before I thought they should be 65. But like Rob said 45-70 is what dexter lists. So I'm thinking now about it ,,,,, 45-70 ft lbs, with that range how loose is too loose to avoid what happened to us?

Like that old saying, inquiring minds what to know,,,, LOLs

Steve,
Here's the 2023 Dexter manual. U-bolt torque specs are on page 66. It's rather confusing because of the multiple options for 1/2-20. I don't know what the difference is between 1/2"-20 U-Bolt and 1/2"-20 U-Bolt, Hex Nut - got to be a NUT on the first one too. And for my 9/16, I'm pretty sure I don't have a flange nut but they don't list values for hex nuts - the wrong sized U-bolts GD sent me were not flange nuts either. Tech in Montana said 95 ft/lbs which GD customer service confirmed via email and in my manual which shows a regular hex nut. This is NUTS LOL.
View attachment Dexter service manual 2023.pdf

EDIT: Dexter just sent me the manual for my axles and the torque values (as well as the nut types) are different. Both manuals have the same date range and revision number so I'm not sure which is the correct one. Below is the one Dexter sent (page 67 has the torque values).
View attachment 600-8k_complete_service_manual.pdf
 
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Well got the new sailun tires $749.65 for 4 from Simple Tire mounted yesterday, cost was $40 each. Had to use a semi truck shop to change the tires, most car tire shops don't have big enough equipment to change 14 ply tires.

Completed replacing the left side (broken spring side) MorRyde CREs wet bolts and shackles. The CRE was bad, when I took it out it rattled around like an old tin can with rocks in it. It was only 2 years old but I guess the failure of the leaf spring was too much for it. The new ones are nice and tight.
Everything went smoothly replacing the parts. Retorqued the Ubolts to 70 ft lbs. The brand new Ubolts we just put on a few days ago to fix the broken leaf spring, the flanged nuts were already loose, the Ubolts had stretched just from setting for a few days. The right side is up next.

Boy I'm telling you lifting up these 235x80xR16 14 ply tires is a real back pain!

Once I was finished I had Tami hit the truck brakes while I was spinning the tires, the brakes worked fine on the left side so no issues there from the broken leaf spring and yanking the wires.

From another thread on the forum were owners are discussing doing work yourself for RV maintenance and such, yes it can get real expensive if you have to hire it done by a service shop or remote tech. If you have the tools and knowhow it can be much cheaper but you also have to have the the physical ability to do the job. A lot of people in their late 60s, 70s-80s physically can't do it anymore. !
 
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Another hurdle down, you are a champ at taking it on the fly. A good example for the new RVrs.

When our bolt broke a yr or so ago it chewed up an almost new Sailun. We made it back on the spare. Luckily there is a local tire shop who can handle the heavy tires. Way back when we got the first set we had to hunt them down and ended up making an hour drive out in farm country to have them mounted
 
Well got the new sailun tires $749.65 for 4 from Simple Tire mounted yesterday, cost was $40 each. Had to use a semi truck shop to change the tires, most car tire shops don't have big enough equipment to change 14 ply tires.

Completed replacing the left side (broken spring side) MorRyde CREs wet bolts and shackles. The CRE was bad, when I took it out it rattled around like an old tin can with rocks in it. It was only 2 years old but I guess the failure of the leaf spring was too much for it. The new ones are nice and tight.
Everything went smoothly replacing the parts. Retorqued the Ubolts to 70 ft lbs. The brand new Ubolts we just put on a few days ago to fix the broken leaf spring, the flanged nuts were already loose, the Ubolts had stretched just from setting for a few days. The right side is up next.

Boy I'm telling you lifting up these 235x80xR16 14 ply tires is a real back pain!

Once I was finished I had Tami hit the truck brakes while I was spinning the tires, the brakes worked fine on the left side so no issues there from the broken leaf spring and yanking the wires.

From another thread on the forum were owners are discussing doing work yourself for RV maintenance and such, yes it can get real expensive if you have to hire it done by a service shop or remote tech. If you have the tools and knowhow it can be much cheaper but you also have to have the the physical ability to do the job. A lot of people in their late 60s, 70s-80s physically can't do it anymore. !

I've got the same exact/size tire and find using a cats paw really helps.
 

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