Broken leafspring. Another….

[Sportzfann]

2018 303 RLS returning home from our first long road trip, (5k Mi.)
I discovered the dreaded Broken leaf spring, passenger side rear axle.
I had planned to replace the shackles, and bushings, and reinforce the hangers due to all the posts I have read on this forum about the hanger problems and broken leaf springs. I will add leaf springs to the list.
The previous owner broke a hanger off and I can see where they welded it back on. The axles have been replaced with 7K lb. Dexters, with new brakes etc, but I see the springs are the original, I believe they are 2600lb. Ea. They are mostly flat on the kitchen side of trailer, dining room side springs look ok, but I plan to upgrade to a 6 leaf 3500lb. springs both sides.
Etrailer and Dexter both offer that spring but pricing is different and not sure about spring quality China vs. US made. I’ve seen a lot of posts about this issue and I guess I’m joining the club now!
I stopped at a roadside scale on our way home and I was running 10,300lbs while connected to my truck.
GD says 10,400 is max for this trailer so I don’t think an overload condition existed when the spring broke, I’m just glad the axle hanger on the front of the axle didn’t break, probably would have been real bad!

I plan to complete this work myself, I have the tools and the time to complete this once I have parts onsite.
any advice about getting the process, parts etc. is appreciated. ?

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Just a point of clarification: When you say "I was running 10,300lbs while connected to my truck.", are you referring to the actual trailer weight on the axles? And when you refer to "GD says 10,400 is max for this trailer", are you referring to the GVWR for this trailer?

I sourced China-made springs for my trailer when I replaced them. Mainly because Dexter was nearly double the price, and I had no idea if the quality was worth the increase in price. Sometimes the higher price doesn't reflect a proportionate rise in quality.

 

[Steven@147]

I just got done replacing the original 3500# leaf springs on our left side (heavy side) yesterday.

Front axle left = 3200# Rear axle left = 3300. Left side RV weight on springs = 6500#.
Front axle right = 2700#. Rear axle right = 2750#. Right side RV weight on springs = 5450#

Recuperating before doing right side.
We have @ 25K miles on the rig and original leaf springs. Took about 4 hours and I repacked the wheel bearings at the same time. 7K axles 3500# springs, bronze bushings, 6 leaf, 3/4" width, 24 7/8 unloaded length. Also installed new 1/2" U Bolts.
Torque specs used = 45ft# wet bolt nuts, 65ft# 1/2" Ubolts.
I ordered from e-trailer, yes china made springs. The OEM china lasted 25K before getting flat on left side so the china replacements will probably last the same. The new spring eyes looked and appeared to be very round, (not oval) when I pressed in the new bronze bushings.
You can see our left (drivers side) springs have that W look.

Your hangers look way longer than the ones on our rig.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

I hope that second picture is a "Before" shot.

 

[Steven@147]

I hope that second picture is a "Before" shot.

LOL's yup!

 

[Sportzfann]

Just a point of clarification: When you say "I was running 10,300lbs while connected to my truck.", are you referring to the actual trailer weight on the axles? And when you refer to "GD says 10,400 is max for this trailer", are you referring to the GVWR for this trailer?

I sourced China-made springs for my trailer when I replaced them. Mainly because Dexter was nearly double the price, and I had no idea if the quality was worth the increase in price. Sometimes the higher price doesn't reflect a proportionate rise in quality.

Yes I had the trailer on the scale and it was reading 10300 lbs. while hitched up, I couldn’t disconnect from truck or I would have.
I got a quote from Dexter axle $110.49 ea for 6 leaf 3500lbs. Springs they are about 2-1/8” thick.
My current springs are 1-1/2” thick 4 leaf. So probably need new u bolts also.
I have about 1” of threads showing.
Most of the springs are made in china so your point about quality VS price is where I am at also.
I plan to keep one of the good springs to keep with me while we travel in case I have this issue again.
I plan to get the new wet bolts, bushings, also check bearings and brakes this trailer is used and not sure what maintenance was done on it.��

 

[Sportzfann]

I just got done replacing the original 3500# leaf springs on our left side (heavy side) yesterday.

Front axle left = 3200# Rear axle left = 3300. Left side RV weight on springs = 6500#.
Front axle right = 2700#. Rear axle right = 2750#. Right side RV weight on springs = 5450#

Recuperating before doing right side.
We have @ 25K miles on the rig and original leaf springs. Took about 4 hours and I repacked the wheel bearings at the same time. 7K axles 3500# springs, bronze bushings, 6 leaf, 3/4" width, 24 7/8 unloaded length. Also installed new 1/2" U Bolts.
Torque specs used = 45ft# wet bolt nuts, 65ft# 1/2" Ubolts.
I ordered from e-trailer, yes china made springs. The OEM china lasted 25K before getting flat on left side so the china replacements will probably last the same. The new spring eyes looked and appeared to be very round, (not oval) when I pressed in the new bronze bushings.
You can see our left (drivers side) springs have that W look.

Your hangers look way longer than the ones on our rig.

Yes the hangers look to be longer, I plan to add the v shaped plates to my hangers while this work is ongoing.
Where did you get the torque settings for your hardware?
I will end up with the same springs as you but my trailer is a bit lighter than yours.
I saw etrailer has a 5 leaf spring that is rated for 3000lbs. The correct length too.
so maybe I don’t need the 3500 rated spring?
The previous owner broke a hanger at some point and installed Dexter 7000lb axles with brakes but left the original leaf springs installed.
Can you describe what you supported the trailer with while you were changing out the suspension?
I have the electric leveling at 4 points on my 303, but want to add something to help support the leveling jacks. Thanks for the replies!

 

[jjbbrewer]

Etrailer and Dexter both offer that spring but pricing is different and not sure about spring quality China vs. US made. I’ve seen a lot of posts about this issue and I guess I’m joining the club now!

After dealing with replacement leaf springs for more times than I can count, the difference between China sourced spring steel and American spring steel is astounding.

There are heaps of posts about leaf springs on the forum that you can search.
Here's a thread where I discussed the Alcan USA made leaf springs I bought and installed last year.
https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/showthread.php/48278-Leaf-Springs-Upgrade-Question

 

[Steven@147]

Yes the hangers look to be longer, I plan to add the v shaped plates to my hangers while this work is ongoing.
Where did you get the torque settings for your hardware?
I will end up with the same springs as you but my trailer is a bit lighter than yours.
I saw etrailer has a 5 leaf spring that is rated for 3000lbs. The correct length too.
so maybe I don’t need the 3500 rated spring?
The previous owner broke a hanger at some point and installed Dexter 7000lb axles with brakes but left the original leaf springs installed.
Can you describe what you supported the trailer with while you were changing out the suspension?
I have the electric leveling at 4 points on my 303, but want to add something to help support the leveling jacks. Thanks for the replies!

Hey Sportzfann,
The torque specs for the wet bolt nuts MORryde says 40-50 ft# and for the Ubolts there was some discussion on this forum a few years ago about Ubolts loose and not being torqued enough and GDRV said at that time 65 ft# for the Solitude which has 1/2 Ubolts.

I have no data to back up my opinion but I believe the rigs with the longer frame hangers are the ones that have them break off. Our shorter ones have never had a problem. I did notice at the recent RV shows the Influence I looked at had very, very short frame hangers and did not have the V clips which surprised me. Same on the Jayco units I looked at.

Our rig GVWR is 16800. The previous owner for your trailer must have had problems with the axles so they upped the axles to 7K ? I wonder why they didn't just go ahead and change the springs ? I think I would stay with the 3500# springs even if you don't load up the RV. It seems to me on these heavier trailers, the leaf springs are the weak point. We are not over weight but are within 200-300# limit on our left side 3500# springs . Anything one can do to help support the rigs suspension (without going to IS) is well worth it IMO. I even contemplated going up to 4000# springs on ours but at that point they want to go to slipper springs.

I ordered one set of springs from Dexter web site who subcontracted it out to Bear Springs which were china made and were more expensive. The other set of springs I ordered through eTrailer and were also china made but were cheaper.

We have the 6 way electric leveling. I use a pair of huge jack stands, I think they are 12 ton (I've had them for years). Also a pair of hydraulic jacks that are lockable. I use the Ground Control 3.0 Electric leveling system to get the side of the rig up, then place one jack stand under the drop frame. The second jack stand I place under the rear frame on stacked and screwed together 2x12s near the rear leveling jack. On our mid leveling jack (which you don't have) I insert boards and jam them in to also help support the frame. Our mid jacks we can't control independently at least on our version of GC 3.0

Then I have a pair of hydraulic jacks that are also lockable, and place them under the axles between the Ubolts. You can jack them independently to help position the axles and the equalizer to better get the eyes and hanger holes lined up.

Good Luck

 

[Sportzfann]

Hey Sportzfann,
The torque specs for the wet bolt nuts MORryde says 40-50 ft# and for the Ubolts there was some discussion on this forum a few years ago about Ubolts loose and not being torqued enough and GDRV said at that time 65 ft# for the Solitude which has 1/2 Ubolts.

I have no data to back up my opinion but I believe the rigs with the longer frame hangers are the ones that have them break off. Our shorter ones have never had a problem. I did notice at the recent RV shows the Influence I looked at had very, very short frame hangers and did not have the V clips which surprised me. Same on the Jayco units I looked at.

Our rig GVWR is 16800. The previous owner for your trailer must have had problems with the axles so they upped the axles to 7K ? I wonder why they didn't just go ahead and change the springs ? I think I would stay with the 3500# springs even if you don't load up the RV. It seems to me on these heavier trailers, the leaf springs are the weak point. We are not over weight but are within 200-300# limit on our left side 3500# springs . Anything one can do to help support the rigs suspension (without going to IS) is well worth it IMO. I even contemplated going up to 4000# springs on ours but at that point they want to go to slipper springs.

I ordered one set of springs from Dexter web site who subcontracted it out to Bear Springs which were china made and were more expensive. The other set of springs I ordered through eTrailer and were also china made but were cheaper.

We have the 6 way electric leveling. I use a pair of huge jack stands, I think they are 12 ton (I've had them for years). Also a pair of hydraulic jacks that are lockable. I use the Ground Control 3.0 Electric leveling system to get the side of the rig up, then place one jack stand under the drop frame. The second jack stand I place under the rear frame on stacked and screwed together 2x12s near the rear leveling jack. On our mid leveling jack (which you don't have) I insert boards and jam them in to also help support the frame. Our mid jacks we can't control independently at least on our version of GC 3.0

Then I have a pair of hydraulic jacks that are also lockable, and place them under the axles between the Ubolts. You can jack them independently to help position the axles and the equalizer to better get the eyes and hanger holes lined up.

Good Luck

Steven, did you support the side your “Not working on” with blocks/ jacks, or leave the tires on the ground just supported by the leveling jacks?
Or did you lift and support the whole trailer at one time with jacks and blocks?
Just wanted to better understand if it’s safe to jack and block just the side I’m working on?
I will need to get some more lumber to create some cribbing to support the frame, it is pretty high off the ground.
This is quite a project to get the suspension upgraded, I just don’t trust the hangers and springs that are original equipment. The V clips welded to support the hangers from the factory must have been added in the later years of these fifthwheel trailers after the reports of failures rolled in.
Do you know if the center hanger with the equalizer has the Vclips welded also?
Thanks for adding some details.

 

[Steven@147]

Steven, did you support the side your “Not working on” with blocks/ jacks, or leave the tires on the ground just supported by the leveling jacks?
Or did you lift and support the whole trailer at one time with jacks and blocks?
Just wanted to better understand if it’s safe to jack and block just the side I’m working on?
I will need to get some more lumber to create some cribbing to support the frame, it is pretty high off the ground.
This is quite a project to get the suspension upgraded, I just don’t trust the hangers and springs that are original equipment. The V clips welded to support the hangers from the factory must have been added in the later years of these fifthwheel trailers after the reports of failures rolled in.
Do you know if the center hanger with the equalizer has the Vclips welded also?
Thanks for adding some details.

I leave the opposite side just setting on the leveling jacks on leveling blocks I normally use, tires touching the ground. But I only lift the side I'm working on so the tires are just barely off the ground. I don't lift the whole trailer. Each leveling jack is rated to 5000# as they are listed on the spare parts listing.
I think the Vclips were incorporated in late 2019 or early 2020. Owners have reported they were there from the factory when they bought their rig.
The front and rear frame hangers are the critical ones as they get the most twisting torque when turning the RV or backing the rig into a camp site. The rear axle rear frame hanger get the most twisting torque. Some owners install the MORryde center equalizer cross brace.

 

[Steven@147]

Hey Sportzfann,
The torque specs for the wet bolt nuts MORryde says 40-50 ft# and for the Ubolts there was some discussion on this forum a few years ago about Ubolts loose and not being torqued enough and GDRV said at that time 65 ft# for the Solitude which has 1/2 Ubolts.

snip

Good Luck

I am replying to myself here about where I got the torque specs for the wet bolt nuts. However, I thought it was important to report a discrepancy from MORryde about wet bolt nut torque.

Here is a quote directly from the MORryde web page for installation instructions - "STEP 9 Position the equalizer into the center frame hanger and install using one of the Wet Bolts (D) and one of the Lock Nuts (C). Install the wet bolt per the instruction at the top of the page. Torque the nuts on the wet
bolts to 40 ft-lbs with an 11/16” socket while using a 13/16" wrench to hold the bolts in position".

Now you will also find some MORryde installation instructions that say torque the wet bolt nuts to 50 ft-lbs. I have always heard from other owners and read MORryde literature that said the torque should be 40-50 ft-lbs, this time I used 45 ft-lbs.

However, I just happen to look at the installation instructions that came with the MORryde wet bolt kit I just received and it says to torque the wet bolt nuts to 80 ft-lbs. I think 80 ft-lbs is too high of torque and I think you run the risk of stripping the nuts or bolt threads. I wish MORryde was more consistent in their installation instructions. I thought it important to report this discrepancy to the forum.

 

[Sportzfann]

I am replying to myself here about where I got the torque specs for the wet bolt nuts. However, I thought it was important to report a discrepancy from MORryde about wet bolt nut torque.

Here is a quote directly from the MORryde web page for installation instructions - "STEP 9 Position the equalizer into the center frame hanger and install using one of the Wet Bolts (D) and one of the Lock Nuts (C). Install the wet bolt per the instruction at the top of the page. Torque the nuts on the wet
bolts to 40 ft-lbs with an 11/16” socket while using a 13/16" wrench to hold the bolts in position".

Now you will also find some MORryde installation instructions that say torque the wet bolt nuts to 50 ft-lbs. I have always heard from other owners and read MORryde literature that said the torque should be 40-50 ft-lbs, this time I used 45 ft-lbs.

However, I just happen to look at the installation instructions that came with the MORryde wet bolt kit I just received and it says to torque the wet bolt nuts to 80 ft-lbs. I think 80 ft-lbs is too high of torque and I think you run the risk of stripping the nuts or bolt threads. I wish MORryde was more consistent in their installation instructions. I thought it important to report this discrepancy to the forum.

Steven, thanks for the advice I think you are spot on about the inconsistency from Morryde about the torque ratings they suggest. It’s to bad they can’t clean that up in their installation instructions.
When I see 40-50lbs. I would aim for the middle of the range as well.

It sounds from the instructions that a wrench holding the bolt from turning is required while torquing the nuts, did you have any trouble setting the bolts into the hangers so they seat firmly? Did you have to press the bolts into the hangers or do they need to be hammered into place?
My suspension has the wet bolts already installed, I know they are pretty worn so I was planning on all new bolts.
The grease zerks are facing each other.
Can the bolts be reversed and face them to the outside, I thought it easier to grease them ?
The previous owner never replaced the bushing's when the wet bolts were installed, unless the wet bolts were part of grand design OEM installation. I removed one bolt and it has a nylon bushing pretty well destroyed.
Thanks,

 

[Hoopy Frood]

I would have to agree that 80 ft.lbs. is way too high for those wet bolts, and 40-50 ft. lbs. sounds much better, and is what I tightened mine to.

For a long time I thought having the grease zerks on the inside was really silly, and they would be easier to grease if they were on the outside. Partially true, but when they are facing out, they are blocked by the tires and can be kind of a pain to get to. I use a 90° attachment, but it's still awkward. However I think I'd rather do it this way than crawl under the trailer to grease them.

When reinstalling the wet bolts, try to align the splines so you don't cut new splines in the hanger. Less chance of rounding out the bolt hole. And you can reverse the bolts, not an issue. You'll either have to press them in with some device, or hammer them in making sure not to damage the zerks. I hammered mine in without any issues.

If you install new wet bolts, check all bolts to be sure the grease holes are completely drilled through. Sometimes they aren't. BTDT. And try to put the grease hole at about halfway between 9 and 12 o'clock.

 

[Riverbug]

After dealing with replacement leaf springs for more times than I can count, the difference between China sourced spring steel and American spring steel is astounding.

There are heaps of posts about leaf springs on the forum that you can search.
Here's a thread where I discussed the Alcan USA made leaf springs I bought and installed last year.
https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/showthread.php/48278-Leaf-Springs-Upgrade-Question

Oh man, I wish I had remembered your previous post about the Alcan springs. Replaced mine recently with eTrailer as most of us do. I remember reading your post months ago thinking that I have to remember to look for it again...then I completely forgot.

 

[goducks14]

The equalizer shackle bolt uses 50 ft.lbs and the shackle bolts use 40 ft lbs.
https://www.morryde.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Wet_Bolt_install.pdf
https://www.morryde.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Wet_Bolt_install_v2.pdf

At least thats the way I see it. Or it's the longer shackle thats 50 ft.lbs
I just did a swap out of my wet bolts and they were easy to break loose so I highly doubt they were torqued to 80 ft lbs.

 

[Sportzfann]

I would have to agree that 80 ft.lbs. is way too high for those wet bolts, and 40-50 ft. lbs. sounds much better, and is what I tightened mine to.

For a long time I thought having the grease zerks on the inside was really silly, and they would be easier to grease if they were on the outside. Partially true, but when they are facing out, they are blocked by the tires and can be kind of a pain to get to. I use a 90° attachment, but it's still awkward. However I think I'd rather do it this way than crawl under the trailer to grease them.

When reinstalling the wet bolts, try to align the splines so you don't cut new splines in the hanger. Less chance of rounding out the bolt hole. And you can reverse the bolts, not an issue. You'll either have to press them in with some device, or hammer them in making sure not to damage the zerks. I hammered mine in without any issues.

If you install new wet bolts, check all bolts to be sure the grease holes are completely drilled through. Sometimes they aren't. BTDT. And try to put the grease hole at about halfway between 9 and 12 o'clock.

I have the 90 deg fitting for my grease gun. I will probably just reinstall the bolts back in the same direction so I don’t have to press them in. I will try to line up the splines and reinstall them as long as the bolt splines aren’t stripped in the hangers.
I will check the grease holes before installing to make sure they are clear and the holes are in position to accept grease.
When I removed the one bolt to check them out, I found the grease hole was blocked with plastic shavings from the bushing.
I tried to grease all of them when I first got the trailer home and I found a couple bolts won’t take any grease. I understand the weight on the bushings can keep grease from getting thru the bolt, or plastic shavings clogging the hole.

 

[Steven@147]

Steven, thanks for the advice I think you are spot on about the inconsistency from Morryde about the torque ratings they suggest. It’s to bad they can’t clean that up in their installation instructions.
When I see 40-50lbs. I would aim for the middle of the range as well.

It sounds from the instructions that a wrench holding the bolt from turning is required while torquing the nuts, did you have any trouble setting the bolts into the hangers so they seat firmly? Did you have to press the bolts into the hangers or do they need to be hammered into place?
My suspension has the wet bolts already installed, I know they are pretty worn so I was planning on all new bolts.
The grease zerks are facing each other.
Can the bolts be reversed and face them to the outside, I thought it easier to grease them ?
The previous owner never replaced the bushing's when the wet bolts were installed, unless the wet bolts were part of grand design OEM installation. I removed one bolt and it has a nylon bushing pretty well destroyed.
Thanks,

Sorry I was too slow to respond - No i didn't have any trouble seating the bolts or need to use a wrench on the bolt head to keep it from turning when I torqued down the nut. The bolts do not need to be pressed in the hangers. The wet bolts have a knurled end next to the head that keeps the bolt from turning once seated in the hanger. I put the bolt through the hanger so that the grease hole in the bolt shank is clocked to the 3 or 9 o'clock position, (this for better application of grease to the bushing), YOMV, then use a deep socket on the bolt head over the grease zerk and use a hammer to seat the bolt so the head is flush with the hanger. Now you do not have to use a sledge hammer and beat it in. I use a ballpein hammer and hit the socket a couple times, it's enough to seat the bolt head flush to the hanger.

Caution - Do not try to pull the bolt into the hanger by tightening the nut, the threads will strip out long before the bolt head is flush with the hanger.

The wet bolts can be reversed so that the zerks face out, makes it easier to grease the bolts and you don't have to crawl underneath the rig to do the greasing. I have to say there is no requirement that I know of to face the zerk fittings to the inside. Usually the bolts are installed zerks facing in when installed because if you ever have a tire blow out the flapping rubber could hit a zerk and break it off. Then you would have to somehow remove the leftover from the bolt head to install a new zerk. Of course you could say what are the odds of that happening?

Try to get the wet bolt knurled portion in the same groves on the hanger. Repeated hammering in of new wet bolts can cut so many new grooves in the hangers that the bolt head could spin instead of locked in the groves.
Also once you have seated the bolt in the hanger and before you put the nut on, make sure the shoulder of the bolt at the end of the threads is through the hanger or flush with the hanger. The nut actually torques up against the shoulder of the bolt as well as the hanger. I use a C clamp on the hanger to slightly pull it together and the bolt shoulder usually ends up flush with the hanger.

I probably should add that a long time ago on this forum we had a discussion about higher cost MORryde wet bolts Vs lower cost generic wet bolts that you can order from places like e-Trailer. The lower cost generic wet bolts had a tendency for the grease zerks to pull out of the bolt head and stick in the grease run. This because the grease zerks were pressed in the cheaper bolts instead of screwed in like the MORryde wet bolts are. Don't know if this is still the case or not.

 

[jjbbrewer]

Oh man, I wish I had remembered your previous post about the Alcan springs. Replaced mine recently with eTrailer as most of us do. I remember reading your post months ago thinking that I have to remember to look for it again...then I completely forgot.

Well, I hate to say it, but you'll probably get another chance to replace them. Before I went with the Alcans, I'd typically find at least one flattened or twisting spring on my RV every year.

 

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Well, I hate to say it, but you'll probably get another chance to replace them. Before I went with the Alcans, I'd typically find at least one flattened or twisting spring on my RV every year.

What kind of roads do you travel on?