Broken Trim Screws at Overhang/Front Cap

[Fsalmy]

Finally had the chance to de-winterize this week. Hitched up and noticed a separation of the overhang panel from the bottom of the front cap on the curb side - see photos. This was not apparent until I hitched up. Removed the vinyl trim and all 4 screws had broken heads. I drilled new holes into frame and secured with # 10 stainless steel screws, replaced the trim cover, and re-caulked. But, then started thinking about upper deck deflection and broken welds based upon a couple of recent threads. The first photo is unhitched and the last two photos were taken while hitched on level ground at a nearby campground. Here at home, the camper is level when hitching, but the truck is at a decline (back to front), and the separation was much more apparent than in the "hitched" photos at the campground. I'll have to measure the deflection using the Lippert instructions, but that will mean having to hitch up and tow it to a location where the truck and camper are level (not much level here on our farm - maybe out in one of the pastures).

I contacted GD and sent photos. The response I got was that it definitely needed repairs, but nothing more specific than that. Of course, we leave for a scheduled long trip next week. After I re-secured the overhang, I also took photos of the surface rust on the frame tubes at the pin box attachment and sent those to GD. I'll attach those photos in another post. I have noted squeaking when towing the last couple of times, but thought it was coming from the Goosebox. Any thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Fsalmy]

Photos of frame front tube at pinbox attachment. Rear tube has the same amount of rust.




Edit: Opened a case with Lippert, too.

 

[WhittleBurner]

Enjoy your trip, but don't let this fall into the cracks of GD and Lippert. Both are usually pretty responsive. The first thing GD will want you to do is to take the trailer to the dealer for inspection of the area. Be sure to get an open case number frome both.
GD and Lippert. As far behind as the dealers are that shouldn't take place until after the trip

 

[Fsalmy]

UPDATE:

I had the opportunity to take measurements for the potential upper deck flexion issue. Measurements for that were within specs as confirmed by Lippert. However, during the measurements (lifted with a forklift at the dealer), we noted that the measurements from the top of the goosebox to the top of the overhang was 7/16” less than when not lifted (weight on the front landing gear). I’ve included an image of the flex sheet I sent to Lippert and added the measurements for the Goosebox.

I sent the flex sheet measurements to Reese and Grand Design. Reese technical support said it’s not possible the Goosebox is flexing. There was no visible rotation of the Goosebox at the attachment to the wings. Bolts are to specs at 210 ft lbs. Reese is looking into it further but they have no explanation at this time. Lippert has been been very responsive and is working with Reese to diagnose the problem. I received an email this morning from Lippert stating that although measurements were within spec, to please take the rig in to a dealer with a body shop for removal of the front cap for inspection.

Before I do that, I wanted to run it by the knowledgeable folks here. We leave in a couple days for a week-long trip, then have several much longer trips planned through the end of the year.

I don’t Know if it is related, but we had to replace the entire entry door and frame last November because it wouldn’t latch/close properly. And, on the door side (which is same side as the broken screws for the overhang mentioned in the first post of this thread above), both the basement and propane compartment doors are binding on the lower left aspect of the respective openings. To close the doors, have to lift from the bottom left corner of each door. Hinges are tight with minimal play but if you stand back, one can now see that the reveal/gap in the doors are unequal. Doors on off door side work properly with even gap all around. There are no cracks in the sidewalls or front cap and trim along sides of overhang look good with no separation.

Trying to remain optimistic, but I have this sinking feeling there’s a real and major problem.

 

[Scocciante]

Had that same issue when mine was new they sent me a tube of silicone. Within a year it opened up again. Decided to open it up to find three broken screws Forget getting them out without major aggravation. Drilled four pilot holes and used Stainless screws. Reinstalling molding was a PITA.Then resealed We will see. By the way only pulled down the rear of the molding leaving the front silicone unbroken. a small hook to aid in reinstalling the molding will help hammer is useless.

 

[Fsalmy]

Had that same issue when mine was new they sent me a tube of silicone. Within a year it opened up again. Decided to open it up to find three broken screws Forget getting them out without major aggravation. Drilled four pilot holes and used Stainless screws. Reinstalling molding was a PITA.Then resealed We will see. By the way only pulled down the rear of the molding leaving the front silicone unbroken. a small hook to aid in reinstalling the molding will help hammer is useless.

Thanks. I did the same. I have several types of broken and stripped screw pullers and drill bits, but couldn't get a single one of the old ones out so I drilled new pilot holes through the aluminum c-channel, overhang and front cap into the upper deck frame and used stainless screws. Those appear to be holding well, even after a trip to New England and back. But, the new development of the door/curb side basement and propane doors binding along with the Goosebox being closer to the overhang when hitched or lifted now apparently warrants removal of the front cap and inspection. I spoke with a GD mobile tech yesterday. He said that Lippert will send out the technicians to do the inspection, but a dealer with a body shop has to pull the front cap.

EDIT/UPDATE: Just got off the phone with Lippert. They said do not need to remove front cap (email to that effect was in error), just drop the filon and inspect. They have already authorized the work and gave me a case/authorization number. Now to find a dealer to get the inspection done.

 

[ajg617]

Was half way to St. Louis in the rain when I happened to look in my rear view mirror long enough to see something flapping. With the exception of the two end screws, all snapped on pax side. While in Sioux Falls, visited the local GD dealer and explained what I saw. SM took me out to a new Solitude on the lot and it already had the same screws break and on the same pax side. Opened up a case with GD and dealer gave me screws. GD reimbursed me for the silicone. I also left the front of the molding attached and re-sealed the rear but mine was easy to push back up with my fingers. Could not get one of the screws extracted so I have a slight bump which I'll take care of off season. Held up for the remaining 2500+ miles so far.

 

[ajg617]

UPDATE:

I had the opportunity to take measurements for the potential upper deck flexion issue. Measurements for that were within specs as confirmed by Lippert. However, during the measurements (lifted with a forklift at the dealer), we noted that the measurements from the top of the goosebox to the top of the overhang was 7/16” less than when not lifted (weight on the front landing gear).

Did you get the flex sorted out? I have not inspected the frame but had the same screws break. I've not (yet) had a problem with the door but I'm a bit shorter. I've wondered if the added weight of the washer/dryer on that side may have been a contributing factor? But then again, I saw the snapped screws on a brand new unit on the lot.

 

[Fsalmy]

Did you get the flex sorted out? I have not inspected the frame but had the same screws break. I've not (yet) had a problem with the door but I'm a bit shorter. I've wondered if the added weight of the washer/dryer on that side may have been a contributing factor? But then again, I saw the snapped screws on a brand new unit on the lot.

Not yet. Appointment with dealer in a couple of weeks to drop the filon and inspect frame and walls. Lippert will send their techs out if repairs are needed. The good news is that the stainless steel screws I installed are holding so far. We have the w/d, too. Guess we’ll know if it contributed to the problem in a couple of weeks. The Less Junk, More Journey folks had a similar issue (same rig as ours), but seemed to affect more of the trim along side of the front overhang.

Have 10 other warranty items to address at same appointment (which makes 60+ issues in less than 12 months). We might be out of commission for awhile.

 

[ajg617]

Not yet. Appointment with dealer in a couple of weeks to drop the filon and inspect frame and walls. Lippert will send their techs out if repairs are needed. The good news is that the stainless steel screws I installed are holding so far. We have the w/d, too. Guess we’ll know if it contributed to the problem in a couple of weeks. The Less Junk, More Journey folks had a similar issue (same rig as ours), but seemed to affect more of the trim along side of the front overhang.

Have 10 other warranty items to address at same appointment (which makes 60+ issues in less than 12 months). We might be out of commission for awhile.

Did Lippert send you the blank Flex Measurement sheet to fill out? To be on the safe side, I think I'll take the measurements also. If they diverge, I'll contact Lippert and open a case since I already have one open with GD.
Just curious how many miles do you have on your Solitude?

 

[Fsalmy]

Did Lippert send you the blank Flex Measurement sheet to fill out? To be on the safe side, I think I'll take the measurements also. If they diverge, I'll contact Lippert and open a case since I already have one open with GD.
Just curious how many miles do you have on your Solitude?

Yes, I contacted Lippert directly, they opened a case and sent me the pdf of the flex sheet. You can download it from LCI’s website, too. They were much more helpful than GD.

I’ll have to check our records, but I’d guess we have ~3000 miles on the 378. Had to cancel our longer trips due to warranty issues and being in the shop.

 

[ajg617]

Yes, I contacted Lippert directly, they opened a case and sent me the pdf of the flex sheet. You can download it from LCI’s website, too. They were much more helpful than GD.

I’ll have to check our records, but I’d guess we have ~3000 miles on the 378. Had to cancel our longer trips due to warranty issues and being in the shop.

Sorry to hear that you had to cancel. Knock on wood, a couple of screws broke on our interior drawers and shower soap holder and waiting for a new bathroom mirror door and refrig door (dented at pickup) - mostly cosmetic stuff after our first 4600 miles. Going to measure though. Was able to download the form from LCI site.
Thanks,
John

 

[ajg617]

How did you measure from A to B? I can't get to the frame as the front of the compartment wall extends low enough to block a straight shot from Point A. If I look head on, I can't see the frame due to the compartment wall.

EDIT: Asked my son (heavy equip operator and maintenance) to come out and hold a tape measure for me. He looked head on to the trailer and said the Goosebox is aiming a bit to the drivers side. Caught me by surprise but as I looked head on it sure did look like he was correct. I have no idea how to possibly confirm but if he's right, I think that would have put added stress on the screws on the pax side and they all snapped.

EDIT2: Took a straight edge and placed along the sides of the front cap in front of the trim pieces and measured from the inside of the wing at the top of the pin box. Off-door side was 1/2" shorter than door side.

 

[Fsalmy]

How did you measure from A to B? I can't get to the frame as the front of the compartment wall extends low enough to block a straight shot from Point A. If I look head on, I can't see the frame due to the compartment wall.

EDIT: Asked my son (heavy equip operator and maintenance) to come out and hold a tape measure for me. He looked head on to the trailer and said the Goosebox is aiming a bit to the drivers side. Caught me by surprise but as I looked head on it sure did look like he was correct. I have no idea how to possibly confirm but if he's right, I think that would have put added stress on the screws on the pax side and they all snapped.

I’d contact both Lippert and Reese. They both have been very helpful and responsive. I’ve looked to see if the goosebox is square and it’s extremely difficult to tell by sight alone. Sometimes I think it’s off, other times it looks square. Reese had me take a bunch of photos and measurements, but those were all in spec. Lippert works very closely with Reese and got their engineers together to discuss our issues..

EDIT2: Took a straight edge and placed along the sides of the front cap in front of the trim pieces and measured from the inside of the wing at the top of the pin box. Off-door side was 1/2" shorter than door side.

Had the same issue with point B, so we also used a straight edge just behind the front compartment trim and against the small amount of visible frame rail. Had to use a lift truck for the lifted/weighted measurement because my tail gate interfered too much when hitched. Started to take the tailgate off, but decided to get measurements at the dealer to help “support” my case.

For the upcoming inspection/service, Dealer is going to measure again using a tape and a laser after somehow clamping straight edge to frame. I’m not entirely confident in the precision of the measurements and being able to detect a problem. Dropping the filon may be the only way to identify a problem - assuming everything that needs to be inspected is actually accessible/visible.

 

[ajg617]

Have a case open with both Grand Design and Lippert. Can't get a call back from Grand Design but have been in contact with Lippert. Lippert doesn't care where point B is as long as it is consistent (for example x inches down on the front landing gear) and a straight shot to point A. I'm not sure the Upper Deck Flex Measurement diagram is going to validate my concern that the wings may not be perpendicular to the chassis frame and my pin box might be angled to the off-door side.

Trying to set up an appointment with the selling dealership but they have a very odd voicemail saying they are not accepting new customers - whatever that means. Complicating all this is my TV goes in for the CP4 recall tomorrow so I'm not sure when I'll be getting it back.

 

[ajg617]

Can't take measurements with weight off of landing gear - even with tailgate off. But, I did add a measurement which is my real concern. From lower front corners of pin box to frame edges on each side. I also measured from front and rear tube to top of pin box on each wing - 1/8" lower front and rear on the off-door side which matches the difference in mounting holes.

Note the difference between door and off door sides. I guess this is my real concern regarding reason for door side screws snapping and ball wear.

 

[ajg617]

I’d contact both Lippert and Reese. They both have been very helpful and responsive. I’ve looked to see if the goosebox is square and it’s extremely difficult to tell by sight alone. Sometimes I think it’s off, other times it looks square. Reese had me take a bunch of photos and measurements, but those were all in spec. Lippert works very closely with Reese and got their engineers together to discuss our issues..

Received an email today from GD regional SM saying cease and desist on contacting LCI or GD directly. LCI was ignored by GD and Reese has been terrible (at least that service rep) - not their problem from the start.

 

[ajg617]

Dealer is dropping filon on Aug 5th - was lucky to get in that soon.

 

[Pawsitive Camping Life]

Curious to hear the results on if the frame. We haven't noticed anything yet with ours but we still have the original pin box, but it is one of the main things I worry about.

 

[ajg617]

Curious to hear the results on if the frame. We haven't noticed anything yet with ours but we still have the original pin box, but it is one of the main things I worry about.

Dealer said they have only dropped one other filon and GD bought the coach back from the owner. I hope it doesn't get to that. I noticed the screws snapped on I-70 in Missouri. I would like to be an observer when they drop it - not likely to be allowed to but I may hang out at the dealership.