Can my TV stop me

[iproff1]

I've seen many posts on here where someone says they have a 1/2 ton and wonder if they can tow a certain trailer and someone always says it will tow it but will it stop it. The will it stop it phrase is used quite often, too often. Coming from an automotive back ground I knew that the answer was yes a manufacture would never build a vehicle give it a 12,000lb tow rating if it could not stop it so today I did some research and discovered that it turns out that there is standard which includes towing, braking, payload, handling including hill climbing. So if a 1/2 ton says it can tow 12,000 lbs the standard says that it can also stop it.
The standard for towing that all manufacturers must use is J2807.

I think you will find this an interesting read.

Ken


https://tfltruck.com/2019/10/heres-...ailer-up-a-huge-hill-to-test-sae-j2807-video/

 

[geotex1]

Do be conscious that SAE J2807 compliance is true for ~2015 and newer models years. Before then, manufacturers did their own in-house testing to support their claims. What was interesting to see was pretty striking differences between model years before and after adoption, yet no design changes made to the truck from one model year to the next. It was entertaining on the truck forums back then.

 

[marlowefamily]

I have a 2020 expedition built on f150 frame with 9200lb tow rating. Towing a 32ft 7k lb trailer. Trailer brakes tuned to proper gain setting are the only way to safely drive, especially on sustained downgrade. You need to control speed carefully and the expy brakes on their own would be hair raising or very short life.

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[geotex1]

I have a 2020 expedition built on f150 frame with 9200lb tow rating. Towing a 32ft 7k lb trailer. Trailer brakes tuned to proper gain setting are the only way to safely drive, especially on sustained downgrade. You need to control speed carefully and the expy brakes on their own would be hair raising or very short life.

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Yeah the J2807 has nothing for real-world towing. It's just to level the playing field in truck makers' claims. I believe the regiment only has a 25mph to 0 mph protocol with and without trailer brakes on level ground and then the truck's E-brake has to hold the combination when parked up and down a defined grade (cannot recall the % slope).

Interesting, by embracing the standard, it finally resolved the notoriously weak brakes on GM trucks!

 

[goducks14]

There's the stuff on paper and then there's the real world. Good luck trying to stop or slow down an 12,500 lb trailer on even the slightest downhill grade..
You'll smoke the brakes in know time.
Thats why I tow with a diesel. I can slow down my 9600 lb TT on most any grade up to 6% with just the exhaust brake.
All I can say is if someone's towing over 5,000 lbs with a 1/2 ton then they better hope the trailer brakes are working.

 

[NB Canada]

There's the stuff on paper and then there's the real world. Good luck trying to stop or slow down an 12,500 lb trailer on even the slightest downhill grade..
You'll smoke the brakes in know time.
Thats why I tow with a diesel. I can slow down my 9600 lb TT on most any grade up to 6% with just the exhaust brake.
All I can say is if someone's towing over 5,000 lbs with a 1/2 ton then they better hope the trailer brakes are working.

My GMC has down hill assist. I think every modern truck does. I rarely have to use the brakes
I find these posts funny. My truck has bigger and better brakes than HD trucks had just over 10 years ago but no body said anything about them


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew

 

[backtrack2015]

My GMC has down hill assist. I think every modern truck does. I rarely have to use the brakes
I find these posts funny. My truck has bigger and better brakes than HD trucks had just over 10 years ago but no body said anything about them


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew

We just want the 1/2-ton folks to feel inferior. Same with the 3/4-ton folks towing fifth-wheels.

 

[Stealth13777]

I know that phrase is used, but that isn’t the point at face value. Ford at least also gives frontal area limits for towing. All of them give GVWRs and GAWRs. Way too many people want to get in a travel trailer that’s at or near the max ‘tow rating of the truck’, not understanding that travel trailers are some of the toughest trailers period to tow.

They have huge surface areas, especially relative to weight. Ask any of the manufacturers if they took a 35ft 13000 lb travel trailer out for those tests on their half ton and they’ll laugh at you. I don’t doubt that the trucks can pull and stop (with trailer brakes) their rated loads. But what the load is matters just as much. A 13k lb twin axle 15ft trailer with bricks on it is much, much different from a travel trailer.

The tough part is explaining that there is more to it than just the advertised number. So that phrase is used, as are control statements. There is also more safety margin on the larger trucks.

 

[sirtate]

I'm curious what the 'Big Truck' people would think about running an 80kip 18 wheeler down a mountain pass.

Are they riding the brakes all the way down to maintain speed? (That would set you up for brake fade and smoke and maybe fire)

Or do they know about snubbing? (Using purposeful brake applications to dump ~20mph in speed and allowing the brakes to cool as the vehicle speeds back up again)

Do they slow down when they approach a downhill grade?

Engine braking is good, but Semi's don't have enough to keep speeds under control at max weights without service brake applications.

If you do the math on energy that needs to be converted to heat in the brakes (that's all brakes do) you'll see that a 70mph snub to 50mph produces as much heat as a FULL STOP from 50mph...

Slow down on the hills, it's safer...

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[iproff1]

I find it interesting that so many posts here totally missed the standard and all the testing that determines how every single truck is rated for tow, load capacity, braking and cornering.

 

[huntindog]

My GMC has down hill assist. I think every modern truck does. I rarely have to use the brakes
I find these posts funny. My truck has bigger and better brakes than HD trucks had just over 10 years ago but no body said anything about them


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew

LOL. The half ton folks like to talk about how much improved their trucks are today.... And this is true to a point. But, progress hasn't been limited to the half tons,,, Their larger cousins are also much improved. What hasn't changed is the differences between them. I have actually worked on differentials, brakes ujoints, trannys etc. The size and weight of the components is night and day between the two classes of trucks. That was true years ago, and is still true today.
Heavy weight requires heavy components.

 

[thegreenblade]

There's the stuff on paper and then there's the real world. Good luck trying to stop or slow down an 12,500 lb trailer on even the slightest downhill grade..
You'll smoke the brakes in know time.
Thats why I tow with a diesel. I can slow down my 9600 lb TT on most any grade up to 6% with just the exhaust brake.
All I can say is if someone's towing over 5,000 lbs with a 1/2 ton then they better hope the trailer brakes are working.

That is a ridiculous statement.


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[thegreenblade]

I had an Incident last week when everyone on i65 slowed down to a stop quickly. Doing 65mph pulling 7100lbs I stopped on a dime. I was amazed with my 1/2 ton.


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[geotex1]

LOL. The half ton folks like to talk about how much improved their trucks are today.... And this is true to a point. But, progress hasn't been limited to the half tons,,, Their larger cousins are also much improved. What hasn't changed is the differences between them. I have actually worked on differentials, brakes ujoints, trannys etc. The size and weight of the components is night and day between the two classes of trucks. That was true years ago, and is still true today.
Heavy weight requires heavy components.

I'll take changing out the rear brakes on my 2015 dually every day of the year over those that were under my 98 GMC with full floater and drums with more steel in them than an entire Tesla!!

I personally don't subscribe to the debate... My 2019 Gen5 RAM 1500 with factory tow goodies sits right next to my Gen4 RAM 3500 dually with the maxed out factory tow goodies. So I just pick the right tool for the job! I like quality tools, they last longer when worked hard.

 

[NB Canada]

LOL. The half ton folks like to talk about how much improved their trucks are today.... And this is true to a point. But, progress hasn't been limited to the half tons,,, Their larger cousins are also much improved. What hasn't changed is the differences between them. I have actually worked on differentials, brakes ujoints, trannys etc. The size and weight of the components is night and day between the two classes of trucks. That was true years ago, and is still true today.
Heavy weight requires heavy components.

And where did I say it stopped at 1/2 tons?
You obviously completely missed the point of my comment

Happy camping

Edit “half ton folks”????


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew

 

[iproff1]

LOL. The half ton folks like to talk about how much improved their trucks are today.... And this is true to a point. But, progress hasn't been limited to the half tons,,, Their larger cousins are also much improved. What hasn't changed is the differences between them. I have actually worked on differentials, brakes ujoints, trannys etc. The size and weight of the components is night and day between the two classes of trucks. That was true years ago, and is still true today.
Heavy weight requires heavy components.

Your post is totally irrelevant to this thread. The tread is not about 1/2 tons or any size truck for that matter it's about how trucks are rated in 4 categories that are important to tow something. When someone says well you can tow it but good luck stopping it they are clueless to the standards of that truck.

 

[sirtate]

I find it interesting that so many posts here totally missed the standard and all the testing that determines how every single truck is rated for tow, load capacity, braking and cornering.

They don't want to admit that engineers might actually plan for stopping, steering, and pulling trailers when they design a tow vehicle...

When you understand the testing, you can also interpolate why a certain vehicle can't pull as heavy a trailer (FWD minivan as an example; can't perform well in the grade starting test)

The 'Big Truck' crowd are running safely, and believe that if you don't have a buffer like they do, you aren't as safe...

By their logic a highway tractor weighing 18,000 lbs should only tow a trailer that has a GVWR of 18k too... Cuz you can't have a trailer that outweighs the TV...

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[more tired since retired]

I've seen many posts on here where someone says they have a 1/2 ton and wonder if they can tow a certain trailer and someone always says it will tow it but will it stop it. The will it stop it phrase is used quite often, too often. Coming from an automotive back ground I knew that the answer was yes a manufacture would never build a vehicle give it a 12,000lb tow rating if it could not stop it so today I did some research and discovered that it turns out that there is standard which includes towing, braking, payload, handling including hill climbing. So if a 1/2 ton says it can tow 12,000 lbs the standard says that it can also stop it.
The standard for towing that all manufacturers must use is J2807.

I think you will find this an interesting read.

Ken

I don't care what anyone says, you can haul any trailer with any vehicle. This video is the proof!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W5r7rrR_Mg&t=29s

 

[kamakazi98]

This discussion could go on forever, and I think it has, but I’d like to throw in my 2 cents. Think about this from a “sellers” standpoint...they’re going to pass the speed, braking, suspension, longevity, etc tests while spending minimal $$. Can your half ton pull it? Absolutely. Can your Jeep Wrangler pull a 30’ trailer weighing over 7k? Probably. (I’ve seen it). Same concept as crash ratings. The minimum needed to pass is an impact at 45 mph. Off topic...if you’re going 25 and you hit someone head-on doing the same speed..technically your vehicle is not rated for that rate of impact.

 

[RV Sailor]

I had an Incident last week when everyone on i65 slowed down to a stop quickly. Doing 65mph pulling 7100lbs I stopped on a dime. I was amazed with my 1/2 ton.


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Slowing down quickly on an interstate in a straight line means what? Ignoring payload capacity in favor of towing ability is great in straight line stops....but what about accident avoidance incidents.

Put 8,000 lbs on a 2 lane road with a deer jumping out or a blowout requiring evasive maneuver or stopping power has everything to do with a vehicle which can control the trailer and situation. Fool yourself into thinking the 1/2 ton can because it handles mild situations is fine, but I would rather stay in the medium my payload capacity than maxing it out or exceeding it.