Changing tires

Yes, this is what they recommend, put jack on frame not on axles.
If changing a tire on the side of the road (thankfully not on our Reflection yet, but several times on our old TT) we would drive the good tire up on leveling boards high enough to let the wheel with the flat hang in the air to change it. Easier and quicker when traffic is zipping by at 70 mph.
 
I carry a "Trailer Aid" which is a two level ramp type device that allows you to pull the good tire up and raise the problem tire off the pavement. I have had to use mine twice on the side of the Interstate. Allows you to change tires rather quickly. I also carry a bottle jack and some small blocking in case it's needed. Prefer not to use a jack if possible. The side gusts from the semi's scares the heck out me.
 
Regarding the Trailer Aid. Depending on the slope or uneveness of the shoulder you may need a jack to get that final clearance off the ground. The Trailer Aid is great but sometimes you may need some extra lift. Thats why I carry some blocking and a bottle jack. On the two flats that I had with my 30ft Arctic Fox 5th wheel the Trailer Aid did the job with no jack required. I have not tried it with my 337. These larger 5th wheels may require a jack to get that last bit of clearance.
 
I've been watching this thread with interest. I have watched tire shops and RV dealers lift the wheels by the axles. I know Lippert does not suggest this, but does anyone know the reason why? It seems to me that if you lift at the shackle, you are not putting anymore force on the axle than when going down the road. Thoughts?

Jim
 
Hi Jim,

Excellent question, I have been following this thread and wondering the same thing. It has always been my experience that lifting (other types of) vehicles by the axle near or at the spring attachments, is the safest. I made an axle saddle for one of my bottle jacks. (I already had this jack . . . I realize 20 tons is a "little" more than required). So, if I lift the axle 2", the tire is off the ground and there is little or no added twisting action on the frame. The only problem I can see with this plan is that it looks like the jack will be in the way for adjusting the brakes.

Rob

image.jpg
 
Rob - That saddle is a great idea. I think the biggest concern about lifting at the axle is denting the axle housing. If you can prevent that I don't see the issue. When I adjusted my brakes, I put a wooden block on top of the jack and still had room to access the brakes for adjustment.
 
A little more detail about using the "Trailer Aid". I had to put a board (4ft 2x8) under the Trailer Aid which gave it enough clearance to change the tire. It was fairly quick and easy and most of all it was safe.

Jim McAfee
2015 Reflection 323BH
 
TucsonJim said:
I've been watching this thread with interest. I have watched tire shops and RV dealers lift the wheels by the axles. I know Lippert does not suggest this, but does anyone know the reason why? It seems to me that if you lift at the shackle, you are not putting anymore force on the axle than when going down the road. Thoughts?

Jim
Click to expand...

I am curious as well to understand the logic in not using the axle. I have a jack with a cradle built in as Rob mentions. It fits perfectly between the axle "U" bolts on the axle at the point directly below the springs. I just used it. Like Jim and Rob, my thoughts are that the axle must be thicker there to take the pounding of a weight loaded vehicle going down the road day after day. Granted, there's a spring block on the top where the weight is. Still, I can't imagine the axle not being able to handle it. Lifting the frame is awkward and seems more dangerous. I have personally seen shops lift by the axles when changing tires too. Can someone with some negative experience give details on why the axle isn't a good option? I'd need some good input to change a habit that has worked for me on my last fifth wheel many times. Thanks.

Brent
 
Ciaran1 said:
I carry a "Trailer Aid" which is a two level ramp type device that allows you to pull the good tire up and raise the problem tire off the pavement. I have had to use mine twice on the side of the Interstate. Allows you to change tires rather quickly. I also carry a bottle jack and some small blocking in case it's needed. Prefer not to use a jack if possible. The side gusts from the semi's scares the heck out me.
Click to expand...

Would seem this would overload the good tire. That could nearly double the carrying capacity of the tire/wheel. Seems that's potential issues there as well especially if needed for a period of hours while tires are brought to a tire place for example (not your "on the side of the road case" of course).

Also want to point out that if you jack it up by the frame, make sure you are hitched up or you will overload the front landing gear on the opposite side.

Brent
 
I'm no axle expert, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express once! There is a difference in automotive axles vs trailer axles (duhhh - it's the HIE thing) and one is the curvature of the trailer axle which should be upward at the center-point (L-R). I am not sure what grade steel Dexter uses but automotive axles are C4140 (some C4142) high temp treated and very hard. A trailer axle is most likely not 4140 since alignment is done by bending the axle tube vs changing hub direction.

With that said (and is most likely all obvious to most folks) - if one thinks about physics (ugly word) - as a jack placed under the axle forces the axle upward, there is a vector force applied all the way across the axle. (remember the bend in the middle) If the weight applied in the downward direction exceeds the tube strength, the axle will lose pitch and the spindle camber will change.

The pounding force exerted on the components as one is towing the trailer is transferred mainly to the frame (side of impact) with little vector forces traversing the axle, thus the axle center-point bend is not affected (if properly sized axle for the trailer weight is used).

This is why I NEVER use a jack on a trailer axle. Because someone at a business does it, is not proof doing so is a good idea; then again - they may have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express for 2 nights ! Just my thoughts - I've had some good ones and some bad ones before, but I've never said, "Hey guys watch this!"
 
Retread68 said:
The pounding force exerted on the components as one is towing the trailer is transferred mainly to the frame (side of impact) with little vector forces traversing the axle, thus the axle center-point bend is not affected (if properly sized axle for the trailer weight is used).

This is why I NEVER use a jack on a trailer axle. Because someone at a business does it, is not proof doing so is a good idea; then again - they may have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express for 2 nights ! Just my thoughts - I've had some good ones and some bad ones before, but I've never said, "Hey guys watch this!"
Click to expand...

You mention, "The pounding force exerted on the components as one is towing the trailer is transferred mainly to the frame (side of impact)...", but where are they transferred from. If you look at the attached pic, the weight must transfer to the springs from the one location I circled. In a way, this is a "cradle" welded to the axle where the springs sit. If the axle is uniform in thickness all around at this point, why wouldn't another "cradle" from a jack not have the same "safe" ability to apply forces. Additionally, the jarring forces from the road have to be much more than the static weight of the trailer or, in the case of changing a tire, the slow jacking process. In my case, my jack has a cradle that fits perfectly between the U bolts essentially behaving the same as the spring block. I think the vector forces are the same or extremely close between the jack travel to just enough to change the tire and that of other up and down forces going down the road. IF a bottle jack is used (1 to 1.5" small top), I could see how that small area carrying the entire weight might be an issue. In my research, I've ready many points of view on this. Most "axle-jackers" believe that the "don't jack axle" is related to jacking center axle to lift both sides or for other liability issues. I hope this doesn't come off as being confrontational. I enjoy the discussion and points of view. Ultimately, I'm all about the truth and if I'm convinced I'm wrong (often am), I will change my behavior. Good topic.

TIRES.jpg

Brent
 
I'm with Brent on this one . . .

If I jack up the frame close to the spring shackle as described in the Lippert manual, I have to raise the frame maybe 5" to get the tire off the ground. This has to put significant twist into the frame and tilting the entire rig this much, puts additional side load on the tires and rims on the other side. How can this be better (and safer) than lifting the end of one axle a couple of inches with a jack saddle directly under the U bolts that fasten the axle and spring together ?

Good discussion . . .

Rob
 
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