Check My Sanity With Replacing WFCO with PD Converter

[Steven@147]

Ok here goes, the other day when dumping tanks and while waiting for the black tank to fill with rinse water, I always check the Ground Control 3.0 leveling monitor since its in the same cargo compartment for the battery charge voltage. It was 12.3 VDC. That says the converter was not working.

Started T-S the converter WFCO 9855 AD, turns out Tami had bumped the disconnect switch when putting a rocking chair back in the cargo hold. Turned the switch back on and "boom-laca-laca-boom" charge voltage back up to 13.7-13.8 VDC. Ok all is good.

But that got me to thinking, I know that gets expensive,
If I had to replace the converter again I was not going to replace it with another WFCO (third one in 5 years). So I started looking into the Progressive Dynamics and replacement. Read a lot of posts here about them and all the reengineering that owners have done, the conversations can get deep fast. Well that equates to either a PD9160 or go to the PD9260 since there is no real 55 amp model for our application. Seems the best replacement would be the PD9260, 60 amp, with the wizard, pendant and 4 stage battery charger. Of course they say not to replace your 55 amp converter with a more 60 amp capacity one, but I wouldn't want go with a 45 amp one.

That brings up other things to think about. At 60 amps, 5 amps over our original 55 converter, it wouldn't seem to be that much over our OEM to worry too much about.
If I figured right the 6 awg wire feeding from the converter to the distribution panel 4 feet away and the length of the 6 awg cable from the distribution panel through the disconnect to the battery is some 8-9 feet away, maybe more. But all this length of 6 awg wire is right at the limit for 60 amps at @ 10-11 or a little more, feet of 6 awg wire that's presently in our rig. (6 awg at 50 amps for 15 feet). I do not want to get into buying and installing all new larger 4 awg battery and converter power wires. But am I really going to be pulling all of that 60 amps and any one time? I believe our 12VDC converter and charge wiring convention goes like this - Converter 12VDC feed goes to the distribution panel and then distribution panel feeds through the disconnect switch to/from the battery.

I do not want to get into rewiring and reengineering this whole cotton-picking rig but read on-------------

Additionally to compound the decision - we are thinking about upgrading our Dometic absorption fridge to a JC 12VDC compressor fridge which puts an additional 11.6 amp load when running on the 12 V side of the house. Now it seems they say the 12 V compressor fridge modification uses a lot less power than the absorption type but I think they may be calculating the reduced power consumption including the AC side of the house, since the 12V fridge doesn't use AC voltage like the absorption does. In any event the 12 V compressor fridge (and its a dual compressor) has to eat more 12VDC power from the DC side of the house - so maybe we need the extra capacity of a 60 amp converter. Mostly they say the original 55 amp converter would be ok with the upgrade. They typically install a 10 gauged wire through a reset breaker directly from the battery to power the fridge.
But an advantage is we could tow with the 12 V fridge on (we don't tow with the propane on - our choice).

Now we have no intention of upgrading to lithium batteries or solar or installing an inverter. When the lead acid wet battery dies we will go to AGM or Gel - probably dual batts. We never boondock or at most once in a blue moon one overnight at harvest host - and we have a generator.

As for our truck's capability - from what I read the RAM truck is fused at 30 amps providing power to the 7 way pin 4 with the 220 amp alternator which we have. The more typical than not amps seen at pin 4 is more like 12-15 amps, so it could supply the needed amps to keep the battery up to run the 12 volt fridge. We have a 30 amp fuse in the truck and a 30 amp reset breaker on the charge line pin 4 in the RV.

Got myself lost in all this verbiage, probably forgot lots of stuff I was thinking about ------ OK right now the WFCO 9855 is working and since I installed rubber shock feet on the mounting of the new replacement 2 yeas ago its been ok. However it always stays charging at 13.7 - 13.8, never higher or lower so its not a very good stage battery charger. The PD9260 being a 4 stage is much better and could easily handle our eventual up grade to two AGM or Gel batts to get rid of the wet cell when it dies (its now 5 years old).

All of this to say - right now I can get the Progressive Dynamics PD9260AV for $244.42 on sale and discounts until end of tomorrow. Do I do it or Not - is there a gottcha I'm not thinking about? Am I pushing the envelope? That is the question?

 

[MoonShadow_1911]

But that got me to thinking, I know that gets expensive,

[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787] I can relate!

Do I do it or Not - is there a gottcha I'm not thinking about? Am I pushing the envelope? That is the question?

So, you are looking at the power side a little incorrectly. The converter supplies out XX amps, that is RMS or while running. There is a maximum that it can output that is the surge capacity. That is what you should be sizing your wire for. In reality, the 6 GA wire is okay. I would look at moving the batteries closer to the converter (or moving the converter closer to the batteries) since 8' is about the max for 60 amps at ~90°, give or take.

Remember that wasted current shows up as heat, as in fire [emoji91][emoji91][emoji91], so the risk is yours.

You could do what the auto industry does and put a thermal fuse both just after the converter and just before the batteries. Make sure the thermal fuse is rated no more than 66 amps, which is 10% more than the converter (then keep several spares on hand).

Usually, I don't recommend putting a fuse on both ends due to the fact that troubleshooting is a bigger PITA. IE: you could have one fuse blown, replace it and blow the second fuse, or both fuses blown, or... You get the idea.

 

[SolarPoweredRV]

Ok here goes, the other day when dumping tanks and while waiting for the black tank to fill with rinse water, I always check the Ground Control 3.0 leveling monitor since its in the same cargo compartment for the battery charge voltage. It was 12.3 VDC. That says the converter was not working.

Started T-S the converter WFCO 9855 AD, turns out Tami had bumped the disconnect switch when putting a rocking chair back in the cargo hold. Turned the switch back on and "boom-laca-laca-boom" charge voltage back up to 13.7-13.8 VDC. Ok all is good.

But that got me to thinking, I know that gets expensive,
If I had to replace the converter again I was not going to replace it with another WFCO (third one in 5 years). So I started looking into the Progressive Dynamics and replacement. Read a lot of posts here about them and all the reengineering that owners have done, the conversations can get deep fast. Well that equates to either a PD9160 or go to the PD9260 since there is no real 55 amp model for our application. Seems the best replacement would be the PD9260, 60 amp, with the wizard, pendant and 4 stage battery charger. Of course they say not to replace your 55 amp converter with a more 60 amp capacity one, but I wouldn't want go with a 45 amp one.

That brings up other things to think about. At 60 amps, 5 amps over our original 55 converter, it wouldn't seem to be that much over our OEM to worry too much about.
If I figured right the 6 awg wire feeding from the converter to the distribution panel 4 feet away and the length of the 6 awg cable from the distribution panel through the disconnect to the battery is some 8-9 feet away, maybe more. But all this length of 6 awg wire is right at the limit for 60 amps at @ 10-11 or a little more, feet of 6 awg wire that's presently in our rig. (6 awg at 50 amps for 15 feet). I do not want to get into buying and installing all new larger 4 awg battery and converter power wires. But am I really going to be pulling all of that 60 amps and any one time? I believe our 12VDC converter and charge wiring convention goes like this - Converter 12VDC feed goes to the distribution panel and then distribution panel feeds through the disconnect switch to/from the battery.

I do not want to get into rewiring and reengineering this whole cotton-picking rig but read on-------------

Additionally to compound the decision - we are thinking about upgrading our Dometic absorption fridge to a JC 12VDC compressor fridge which puts an additional 11.6 amp load when running on the 12 V side of the house. Now it seems they say the 12 V compressor fridge modification uses a lot less power than the absorption type but I think they may be calculating the reduced power consumption including the AC side of the house, since the 12V fridge doesn't use AC voltage like the absorption does. In any event the 12 V compressor fridge (and its a dual compressor) has to eat more 12VDC power from the DC side of the house - so maybe we need the extra capacity of a 60 amp converter. Mostly they say the original 55 amp converter would be ok with the upgrade. They typically install a 10 gauged wire through a reset breaker directly from the battery to power the fridge.
But an advantage is we could tow with the 12 V fridge on (we don't tow with the propane on - our choice).

Now we have no intention of upgrading to lithium batteries or solar or installing an inverter. When the lead acid wet battery dies we will go to AGM or Gel - probably dual batts. We never boondock or at most once in a blue moon one overnight at harvest host - and we have a generator.

As for our truck's capability - from what I read the RAM truck is fused at 30 amps providing power to the 7 way pin 4 with the 220 amp alternator which we have. The more typical than not amps seen at pin 4 is more like 12-15 amps, so it could supply the needed amps to keep the battery up to run the 12 volt fridge. We have a 30 amp fuse in the truck and a 30 amp reset breaker on the charge line pin 4 in the RV.

Got myself lost in all this verbiage, probably forgot lots of stuff I was thinking about ------ OK right now the WFCO 9855 is working and since I installed rubber shock feet on the mounting of the new replacement 2 yeas ago its been ok. However it always stays charging at 13.7 - 13.8, never higher or lower so its not a very good stage battery charger. The PD9260 being a 4 stage is much better and could easily handle our eventual up grade to two AGM or Gel batts to get rid of the wet cell when it dies (its now 5 years old).

All of this to say - right now I can get the Progressive Dynamics PD9260AV for $244.42 on sale and discounts until end of tomorrow. Do I do it or Not - is there a gottcha I'm not thinking about? Am I pushing the envelope? That is the question?

I hope you decided to upgrade your Converter.

I am glad you are looking at your wiring size and making that consideration a part of your purchase decision.

If you search for "Blue Sea Wiring Chart" you will find a very colorful chart that I refer to often whenever I am designing a wiring circuit.

One thing to note is the two leftmost columns, one column shows the ratings for 10% loss, and the other shows the ratings for 3% loss. You will note that a 60 amp circuit requires 6ga wire, so you are fine with your existing wire. You may also note that your line loss will be only 3% if your wire run is less than 10 feet (i.e.: the run to the distribution panel), and your line loss could be as high as 10% going to your battery (probably much lower since you are not pushing 60 amps continously into your battery). Since your wires are less than 30 feet, a less than 10% line loss between the Converter and the battery is very acceptable.

Good luck with your new Converter, that 4 stage PD Converter is a very good one.

 

[NB Canada]

I don’t understand why change something that is working
In all my years of trailer ownership I have never needed to replace a converter

 

[Steven@147]

I don’t understand why change something that is working
In all my years of trailer ownership I have never needed to replace a converter

Normally I would agree with you, if it works, leave it alone. But we are on our third WFCO 9855 converter. The original one died during a winter trip so we had to rely on our truck to charge the battery and help power the leveling system and run the 12V systems like the furnace until we could replace it. Had to take everything out of the cargo hold, remove the rear panel and change the converter during a winter storm.

The 1st replacement converter died on another trip and again we had to rely on our truck to get us by until we could get another one. We couldn't wait for a replacement or better converter to be shipped so we stopped by a Camping World, bought another WFCO and I changed it at the camp ground. This time we put in the 9855 AD

I wanted to see if I could figure out why they were dying so I took the 2nd dead replacement converter apart. I drilled out the rivets for the metal cover and inspecting the internals I found component legs broken off on the motherboard solder points. I removed and resoldered the components and it came back to life, so we have been carrying it around as an emergency replacement. In my opinion they are dying because of shock damage so I installed rubber feet as shock mounts on the replacement converter, its been working now for two years no problems. Except it never goes into float mode it's always charging at 13.7 - 13.8.

So this time when I first thought we had another converter problem I started looking into getting a better converter and one with a 4 stage battery charging profile. Turns out this time our problem was self inflected but it got me to thinking about getting a better converter and so happens there are labor day discounts available.

Well turns out I didn't buy the progressive dynamics new converter, Tami just spent $1000 for a new bed mattress. We'll see how that decision works out!

Thanks guys for your input,

 

[MoonShadow_1911]

Well turns out I didn't buy the progressive dynamics new converter, Tami just spent $1000 for a new bed mattress. We'll see how that decision works out!

Thanks guys for your input,

Happy wife, happy life? [emoji2957]