Dual / Double Pane Window Dealer Statement

[Chiefblueman]

Oservations and ramblings about dual pane windows

I have read many posts over the last couple pf years regarding dual pane windows. Most who have them love them. I have single pane windows and have no trouble with them. They work well for us. So I thought I'd give a single pane counterpoint. Besides, I'm stuck in this bed for four hours and I'm bored. BTW, these are conclusions I've come to for me and is in no way meant to determine whether DP's worthwhile or not.

The discussion about dual pane windows is interesting. Lots of conflicting info. One person says there's no gas between panes, another claims an inert gas such as Argon is in there. Estimates on increased weight seem to vary quite a bit. The R value seems to be debatable. I've read a few posts that say they still have condensation issues but most say they cure it. The sound attenuation makes sense.

Even though they are an option on the 315RLTS that I have I wouldn't order them because CCC is 2000lbs. I don't see adding 300+ lbs to the trailer's uvw. Also, I don't do extensive winter camping, don't need them for that. My trailer is pretty comfy in 100 degree weather using the awnings and A/Cs. As far as condensation, I don't really have a problem. There's only the two of us. We do camp in freezing and foggy weather, we like the Oregon coast in Feb. My weather station has an interior hygrometer and I keep my eye on it. When humidity gets to 50% or so inside I open the roof vent and turn the fan on low. The fireplace and furnace keep up easily, even in freezing temps.I have added insulation to the belly and frame rails, that helps. Usually takes 10- 15 minutes. No need to skip showers or not cook. Drops the humidity pretty quickly. BTW, using the propane furnace adds little to no humidity in the trailer according to the hygrometer. I've never had enough condensation on a window to need to wipe it up. Usually if there is any it disappears when the humidity drops below 50%.

At $1400+, for me, dual panes advantages don't outweigh the disadvantages of cost and weight. I don't live in my trailer and don't intend to camp in harsh winter conditions either. The best way to combat that is to use the wheels to get somewhere warmer.

People that have 'em seem to love 'em. But there's a lot to ponder when deciding to get them or not, like your CCC, cost and how you intend to use your rig.

As always, YMMV and this editorial does not represent the views of management.

CBM

 

[DaveMatthewsBand]

Chief makes a fair point. It is possibly more about perception and opinion.

I realize DPW are not a “major improvement” over SPW and some don’t want to lose valuable CCC but I think of it like this...

On a cool day I am more comfortable wearing 2 T-shirts under my jacket than only wearing 1 T-shirt. Even though the shirt is very thin, just as thin as the other one, the layers make a noticeable difference.

For me, $1,100 was an inexpensive option to get get what I feel to be a worthwhile option in a trailer we would be living in full time for several years.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Canyonlight]

Moderators - possibly one of you could add the words dual or double pane windows to the title of this thread to add clarity on what the issue real is and to help locate it in the future using the search tools.
[MENTION=13185]howson[/MENTION] [MENTION=888]Cate&Rob[/MENTION] [MENTION=491]TucsonJim[/MENTION] [MENTION=16626]Country Campers[/MENTION]

Thanks, guys !

Dan

 

[howson]

Moderators - possibly one of you could add the words dual or double pane windows to the title of this thread to add clarity on what the issue real is and to help locate it in the future using the search tools.

[MENTION=13185]howson[/MENTION] [MENTION=888]Cate&Rob[/MENTION] [MENTION=491]TucsonJim[/MENTION] [MENTION=16626]Country Campers[/MENTION]

Thanks, guys !

Dan

Done! (Good suggestion Dan--thanks.)

 

[Cate&Rob]

Kim [MENTION=5934]Chiefblueman[/MENTION] makes a good point that condensation on the windows is more about controlling the humidity in the trailer than about the small surface temperature difference between single and dual pane glass. The only time that we have significant condensation on our single pane windows is when the temperature has dropped quickly and the interior of the trailer still contains high humidity warm air. Getting an exhaust fan going pushes out the moist air and draws in the low humidity outside air. Problem solved. As the guy in the video linked by [MENTION=19708]Bill & Tori[/MENTION] in post 16 describes . . . lowering the window blinds has a big affect on heat transfer . . . in either direction.

Rob

 

[bertschb]

...The discussion about dual pane windows is interesting. Lots of conflicting info. One person says there's no gas between panes, another claims an inert gas such as Argon is in there. Estimates on increased weight seem to vary quite a bit. The R value seems to be debatable. I've read a few posts that say they still have condensation issues but most say they cure it. The sound attenuation makes sense...

That pretty much sums it up!

We ordered dual pane windows on our Reflection to help cut down on condensation and to help reduce noise. We didn't order them for their increased R value because I didn't think it would make much if any difference. The problem I have (actually my wife mainly) with the dual pane windows that were installed in our Reflection is they were difficult to slide open. Pain in the b*tt really. Ours may not have been installed correctly but almost all the windows were very difficult to open and close. The non-dual pane windows pop open at the bottom which is much easier! Plus my wife and I both prefer the sleeker look of the frameless non-dual pane windows. Soooooo, when we ordered the Solitude we chose not to get dual pane windows.

We only use our RV in the winter in Palm Springs where humidity is very low. Because we've never camped when humidity was high I really can't say if the dual pane windows help with condensation. And, since our RV park is pretty quiet, I'm not sure if the dual pane windows in our Reflection were any quieter.

We did recently see a Solitude that the dealer said had dual pane windows and they looked identical to ours (frameless). If Grand Design made frameless dual pane windows that popped open at the bottom, I would have ordered them for our Solitude. Why? Because some day we may camp where the humidity is high and if that happens, I don't want fogged up windows. But, for where we stay, standard windows work fine for us.

 

[Chiefblueman]

Chief makes a fair point. It is possibly more about perception and opinion.

I realize DPW are not a “major improvement” over SPW and some don’t want to lose valuable CCC but I think of it like this...

On a cool day I am more comfortable wearing 2 T-shirts under my jacket than only wearing 1 T-shirt. Even though the shirt is very thin, just as thin as the other one, the layers make a noticeable difference.

For me, $1,100 was an inexpensive option to get get what I feel to be a worthwhile option in a trailer we would be living in full time for several years.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The rest of your story is you boondock almost exclusively and run off your fab solar system year round. Any extra insulating factor you can get makes total sense.
I've seen pics of where you camp. Doesn't look like sound attenuation is a factor for you, there's never anybody around to make noise!

 

[Aridon]

Our first travel trailer didn't have them. Every unit since has. Being on both sides of ownership, with and without dual pane, I won't buy a unit without them again.

Noise reduction
Less heat
Less condensation in cold weather


Especially with how large the windows are in the momentum, we are happy we did it. When our unit was at the dealer they had another momentum right in front of it, facing the same direction. The noise reduction from the busy road by itself was worth it. The glass was notably cooler and the frames sightly cooler to the touch. I didn't have my infrared thermometer with me, I wish I did, but I'm happy we have them and will buy them in any future RV

 

[huntr70]

If Grand Design made frameless dual pane windows that popped open at the bottom, I would have ordered them for our Solitude.

Any Solitude that options the DPW are the same frameless window, with dual panes. It doesn't change to a framed window.

The S series has the framed windows no matter what you choose.

 

[Cate&Rob]

Interesting discussion that dual pane is available in frameless tip-out windows and full opening sliders. When we were shopping, we weren't really focussed on single vs dual pane glass, but we knew that we wanted wide opening windows.

Rob

 

[RVLife68]

Jim & Kate it is always a good thing to verify and confirm anything that an RV salesman tells you. It seems they went to the same school as car salesman of just a couple of decades ago.



We had dual pane in my previous Arctic Fox. I negotiated to take the unit that was on their lot and they would order the dual pane windows to replace all windows (it was only a 28' 5th wheel, so not many windows) but my point is that I was able to experience the exact same unit first without dual pane and then with dual pane and so I am convinced from experience that the difference is worth it! It seems that those that have never had them will repeat old stories from 10-20 yrs. ago and tell you that you don't need them. But those that have had dual pane windows previously will tell you that they're worth it and you should order your rig with them.

I never had any problems with mine leaking and I was in the mountains often with my Arctic Fox. I've never heard of them leaking water inside the rig and not sure why they would if they're installed correctly.

I don't understand why dealerships do not order their rigs with dual pane windows, either. I believe they'd sale them if they had them. But since they don't have them, the salesman are going to try to convince you to buy without dual pane so they can sell you a unit off of their lot.

JMHO

I totally agree every higher end Toy hauler should have 3 things (in my opinion):
1. Dual pane windows
2. Generator
3. King bed.
Of note my rear door side window had water in it when I took delivery. From my observation it’s nearly impossible to get water into the rig in double pane windows leak. Funny story....the dealership called me to say they couldn’t find a leak into my RV. I told them again even though I wrote down water in the double pane window. They went back and realized they had filled the pane....how do you miss that lol.

 

[Larry and Kathy]

Thank you for the insights on DPW

Shout out to all those who commented on the thread. Helped make the decision easier. Our salesman said DPW are a waste and offer little in efficiency. We had dual windows in an Arctic Fox 30u a few trailers back and really liked them. We have a piece of ground overlooking a lake in Western Montana. Elevation is over 7,000 feet. The Arctic Fox was much warmer and comfortable than the Open Range that replaced it. We decided to order a new 2930rl S class and went with dual pane. We will update this thread after we have some experience with the unit.

 

[Second Chance]

After reading through the comments, I decided to go do some more research. I learned that not every RV dual pane window is created equally - even if they were made by the same manufacturer. The windows range from the "two pieces of glass with a little air in between" to the insulated 8600 series Lippert windows GD installs in the 2020 Solitudes (when optioned). In other words, there will be differences in thermal characteristics and performance between the different types/levels of windows. Blanket statements about "all" RV dual pane windows are neither informative nor helpful.

Rob

 

[frank4711]

Good reading ... being fairly new to camping I have to say single pane windows have served us well .... we camp mostly Fl/GA with a few longer trips ... some cold days no issues just running fireplace for heat easy to keep up ... many hot days 95 plus never a problem maintaining as cool as I want ... would never have a camper without 2 a/c's ... the continuous front to back duct seems very effective ... we always make every effort to book shady sites ... all of our camping has been in our Rockwood we are trading for the new S Class 2930RL ... the comfort level in the Rockwood vwas great and we expect as good or better in the S Class ... if not for the floor plan in the Rockwood we would have kept it but the 2930RL really pushed all the buttons ... and lastly less weight is always better ... later Frank