Flex-frame issues and warrenties?

brodie19239123

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I asked a sales rep, considering buying a GD. They said the following: "we have added more lag bolts going from Ibeam to side wall. More screws from chassis to sidewall, and adhesive on the face of the Ibeam that touches the sidewall. We have also added an additional 2 years to the chassis warranty to help with customer concerns."

Can anyone confirm if this should fix the issue who knows more about RV's? Also, how good is GD with warrenties. Curious if anyone can comment if its worth it as a prospective buyer with these recent issues (as there have not been recent posts).

I'm new to RVs so I do not know a ton.
 
It's certainly a start, and, they are carrying the best frame warranty in the industry right now.

Our shop just got done fixing a Montana front living room model and a Fuzion toyhauler for frame flex.
Cedar Creek last month, and a Landmark in July.
It is across the board....
 
It's a Lippert problem. Lippert could build a 5th wheel frame stronger so the brand manufacture would be less of the issue. But that would cut into their profits and increase the price of the 5th wheel. Since not ALL have issues it's cheaper to fix a small % than make ALL better.
 
Given that a lot of this surrounds the lack of lg bolts and the use of the wrong size lag bolts into the sidewalls, I doubt it is a Lippert issue.

I'd say GD has learned a lesson and is very likely more focused on how their walls are getting mounted and secured. And since they have upgraded their warranty I think the OP does not need to worry much.

He should focus on the CCC weights on the rig he is looking at tho. Some of those big Solitudes seem to have less CC than some smaller units.

Just want to add one more comment about all this business.... manufacturers should learn to pay more attention to quality DURING the build rather than rely on PDI AFTER the "horse is out of the barn".
 
Just want to add one more comment about all this business.... manufacturers should learn to pay more attention to quality DURING the build rather than rely on PDI AFTER the "horse is out of the barn".
At the risk of getting in trouble with someone, this is a good video talking about RV quality ..

 
Given that a lot of this surrounds the lack of lg bolts and the use of the wrong size lag bolts into the sidewalls, I doubt it is a Lippert issue.
When I was at the GD factory in April, I had a good conversation with some of the senior reps and techs when dropping off, as did another couple in with a Momentum for the same reason. To say the other couple were a bit perturbed is an understatement. GD's position then was the number of lag bolts and size were a joint LCI/GD design decision. You can take that for what it is worth. Certainly the customer relationship damage was with GD and not Lippert.

What I can say is I felt and visually saw a huge difference between towing out and towing back after the repairs. Nose of my trailer used to rock side to side over the ball. I put a dash cam on my rear window to catch the movement on the outbound trip and compare it to the inbound. The side to side rocking on the ball was minimal on the way home and the entire rig felt much more stable.

What I would be (and am now) concerned about is that the added sidewall stiffening to the frame is translating additional stress to the frame itself and of course the undercarriage. I agree with @WhittleBurner that I don't think sufficient time has gone by to determine if a problem has been solved but it was enormously frustrating to make the trip and come home to find a broken LCI weld.

I mentioned to my GD POC that I can't go through wet bolts/springs/bushings every year and my chassis warranty is up in April. I was assured that they were not going to drop support at end of warranty but I guess that is a TBD.

@huntr70 Maybe you can't answer this question, but am very curious if the fix to the other brands was similar in nature to GD's repair procedure.
 
Seems the frame issues withe some years GDRVs has gone big time with a report released today and on Fox Business this AM.

Here is the report which seems quite damaging.


Not sure this is the issue with this thread but is applicable to others over recent years W/O question.

Hope GDRV and LCI do what is right to take care of folks as this seems to be a safety concern to other RVrs on the road as well according to the report.

Dan
 
Seems the frame issues withe some years GDRVs has gone big time with a report released today and on Fox Business this AM.

Here is the report which seems quite damaging.


Not sure this is the issue with this thread but is applicable to others over recent years W/O question.

Hope GDRV and LCI do what is right to take care of folks as this seems to be a safety concern to other RVrs on the road as well according to the report.

Dan
Seems like a hatchet job from someone who has shorted the Winnebago stock. Are there issues, no doubt? However, Winnebago is far from the only manufacturer that has these issues. That article just amplified the nay-sayers on social media, I'd be a lot more respectful if there was some objective-sounding reporting there. The reporter didn't even bother to address some of the glaring disparities from the different sources cited.
 
Seems like a hatchet job from someone who has shorted the Winnebago stock. Are there issues, no doubt? However, Winnebago is far from the only manufacturer that has these issues. That article just amplified the nay-sayers on social media, I'd be a lot more respectful if there was some objective-sounding reporting there. The reporter didn't even bother to address some of the glaring disparities from the different sources cited.
Hatchet job or not (aren't all investigative reports hatchet jobs?), this is keeping GD in a very negative spotlight and depressing re-sale values of existing rigs and possibly sales of new rigs though I doubt if GD or anyone would ever confirm that. This isn't much different than Big Truck Big RV's anti-GD rant on flex early this year and the subsequent YT posts by some of the same buyers that he interviewed and are in this article which caused GD to issue their TSB and extend warranties on all their products. But for this to hit national news isn't good for the brand and I'm not sure it's recovered from earlier this year.

But it's hard to ignore statements like:
“The OEMs made a bad mistake. They overbuilt, and they screwed themselves,” Bill Fenech, who cofounded Grand Design in 2012 with his brother, Ron Fenech, and Don Clark...
and worse:
"In a recent earnings call, Lippert CEO Jason Lippert dismissed the frame failure controversy as “insignificant” and “hardly worth mentioning.” He also pinpointed the issue as “chatter around Grand Design,”...

This last is the worst. If you read the actual earnings call, it blames the consumer for overloading and the poor condition of the roads.

I've used investigative reporting to my benefit in the past. After years of fighting GM/Olds with my 350 diesel I joined a group called "Lemon On Wheels" in the early '80s. They were the pre-internet version of what is going on now. In less than a month, I was invited to appear on Hugh Downs 20/20 in NYC to share my story. A week later, I received an unsolicited check covering ALL expenses I incurred on my Olds but I still couldn't sell or trade it. Soured me on GM since.

To be sure, I was happy that GD had me come out to the factory but the excessive flex signs that I pointed out to the tech that met me and CS should have been repaired but were not. In fact, it warranted dropping the filon and replacing broken trim screws, un-rippling decals and resetting filon trim pulled away from the siding which they did not do so who knows what they didn't see that they should have. The two primary reasons for the visit were upper deck flex TSB and complete inspection of the suspension. Their suspension inspection consisted of 'all the wet bolts took grease'. Why it's been in a Lippert shop for three months because the frame delivered to GD was the problem but their techs should have caught it.
 
John, I have a lot of respect for your perspective. You've been through a lot with your coach and have earned the right to talk about it. I can't say the same about others who just want to rant. There are several of you on this forum who have had a difficult time, there are also many who have had a great experience. I hope you get the issues with your coach resolved so you can just go camping.
 
Seems like a hatchet job from someone who has shorted the Winnebago stock. Are there issues, no doubt? However, Winnebago is far from the only manufacturer that has these issues. That article just amplified the nay-sayers on social media, I'd be a lot more respectful if there was some objective-sounding reporting there. The reporter didn't even bother to address some of the glaring disparities from the different sources cited.
While it seems like a hatchet job they are right on one point, GD lost the best of their team when they walked away and started Brinkley. They're not quite the same at innovation since they left the company.
 
While it seems like a hatchet job they are right on one point, GD lost the best of their team when they walked away and started Brinkley. They're not quite the same at innovation since they left the company.
Agreed, and all suggestions of the opposite aside, being bought up by Winnebago must have influenced the culture of Grand Design. And the stresses of the pandemic didn't help either.
 
Since the earlier model years did not have the issue....
What changed?The correct answer to this question would determine the correct fix.
 
The fix wasn't lag bolts, it is welding in supports and repairing the cracked side walls. Different issue than lack of or size of lag bolts.
Thanks for the honest answer Steve. Seems like the brands have different issues requiring flex repairs and clearly not limited to GD as some would have the masses believe.
 
Thanks for the honest answer Steve. Seems like the brands have different issues requiring flex repairs and clearly not limited to GD as some would have the masses believe.
Grand Design is just the current scapegoat, issue made even bigger by the current mass media Influencers. It really is nothing new...
 
Since the earlier model years did not have the issue....
What changed?The correct answer to this question would determine the correct fix.
That's what I've been wondering. What changes did GD and Lippert make in manufacturing between past units and new units? There has got to be something different in how they are manufacturing now, than in the past..
 

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