Flex-frame issues and warrenties?

[txloser]

This is true. I think manufacturers just try to adapt. One example of this is my previous Jayco. Frame flex caused an exterior crack at the lower corner where my bedroom slide was. I caught it early and had it “fixed” with a relief cut and a piece of matched trim. This was common on many FW’s for years. Jayco was late to the party doing this from the factory. GD does this from the factory and for the last 3ish years, Jayco does as well.

 

[coglesby]

So far the "fix" has consisted of 1/2" lag bolts to properly fit the 1/2" holes in the frame, and some adhesive to hopefully keep the bolts from backing out.
I would much prefer a mechanical method of preventing bolt backout.
I previously thought about tack welding the bolt heads to the frame. I discarded that idea because welding inside a coach has a high fire risk.
A better idea finally hit me.

Some small steel plates about 1" square, and 1/8" thick with a hole drilled in the center. Some self tapping hex head metal screws to fit the hole.
Place the square up against a lag bolt hex head flat. Secure it with a self tapping screw into the frame. That bolt will never back out on it's own again...But if it needed to be removed later for some reason, it could be.

Would a lock washer work?

 

[Hoopy Frood]

I also asked this on the other thread like this one: Are there instances of the properly sized, and tightened lag bots coming loose?

 

[Captcolour]

So far the "fix" has consisted of 1/2" lag bolts to properly fit the 1/2" holes in the frame, and some adhesive to hopefully keep the bolts from backing out.

We should probably be careful about terminology. If you have a flex issue, the "fix" is to take apart the nose and fix any welds and other work needed to fix the issue.

The 1/2" lag bolts are a preventive measure to hopefully make the nose more stable so a flex failure doesn't occur.

I have my 2021 Solitude 380FL in for some preventive maintenance so am having the dealer perform TSB24-001 to make sure I don't have an issue. Will be interested in hearing the outcome.

 

[ajg617]

We should probably be careful about terminology. If you have a flex issue, the "fix" is to take apart the nose and fix any welds and other work needed to fix the issue.

The 1/2" lag bolts are a preventive measure to hopefully make the nose more stable so a flex failure doesn't occur.

I have my 2021 Solitude 380FL in for some preventive maintenance so am having the dealer perform TSB24-001 to make sure I don't have an issue. Will be interested in hearing the outcome.

I might also suggest that the bolts are being installed in every hole to reduce 'excessive' flex since I don't think you would ever want to eliminate it - not enough flex can cause things to snap. I saw a large SOB 5er (also an LCI chassis) at the Lippert shop where the frame at the front of the bedroom slide out actually broke. This was a solid frame that broke into two pieces. The factory welded a sister frame on but it stopped at the break instead of continuing on forward - terrible repair job that made no sense.

 

[Captcolour]

I have my 2021 Solitude 380FL in for some preventive maintenance so am having the dealer perform TSB24-001 to make sure I don't have an issue. Will be interested in hearing the outcome.

Heard from my dealer yesterday that my 380FL failed the TSB24-001 and they are taking the front apart to add the frame supports. I didn't notice anything inside or outside that would indicate we had an issue. Glad I was proactive to have the dealer check the flex.

 

[Orrin]

Great that you are on top of it.

 

[John From Waxhaw]

I am new to the forum. I've spent several days trying to get caught up on this Grand Design frame crack/flex/failure topic. A question... I have a 2016 Reflection 303RLS that I purchased 2nd hand. Should I be investigating this 'use larger lag bolts' action? Or is this a later model year, other models or perhaps Covid quality related issue? I don't seem to have any issues presently. I'm not sure if I should be doing something pre-emptively, or if I should be glad that my model is good and let sleeping dogs lie.

This thread has been very informative. Glad I found it. Thank you all!

John

 

[huntr70]

I am new to the forum. I've spent several days trying to get caught up on this Grand Design frame crack/flex/failure topic. A question... I have a 2016 Reflection 303RLS that I purchased 2nd hand. Should I be investigating this 'use larger lag bolts' action? Or is this a later model year, other models or perhaps Covid quality related issue? I don't seem to have any issues presently. I'm not sure if I should be doing something pre-emptively, or if I should be glad that my model is good and let sleeping dogs lie.

This thread has been very informative. Glad I found it. Thank you all!

John

So far, it's been pretty exclusive to the larger Solitude and Momentum models.

Enjoy your Reflection.

 

[ajg617]

I am new to the forum. I've spent several days trying to get caught up on this Grand Design frame crack/flex/failure topic. A question... I have a 2016 Reflection 303RLS that I purchased 2nd hand. Should I be investigating this 'use larger lag bolts' action? Or is this a later model year, other models or perhaps Covid quality related issue? I don't seem to have any issues presently. I'm not sure if I should be doing something pre-emptively, or if I should be glad that my model is good and let sleeping dogs lie.

This thread has been very informative. Glad I found it. Thank you all!

John

Hope other Reflection owners reply but it seems like you are outside the perceived 'problem window' and the issues were with Solitudes and Momentums - mostly 2021-2023 according to GD. Those are the models that the NHTSA are looking at but going back to 2017. Doesn't mean it can't happen but I think you'd see some signs.

 

[WhittleBurner]

I am new to the forum. I've spent several days trying to get caught up on this Grand Design frame crack/flex/failure topic. A question... I have a 2016 Reflection 303RLS that I purchased 2nd hand. Should I be investigating this 'use larger lag bolts' action? Or is this a later model year, other models or perhaps Covid quality related issue? I don't seem to have any issues presently. I'm not sure if I should be doing something pre-emptively, or if I should be glad that my model is good and let sleeping dogs lie.

This thread has been very informative. Glad I found it. Thank you all!

John

There haven't been any issues with the older Reflections , or the newer one either. 2016 build was way before covid so get out there and Enjoy your 303!

 

[goducks14]

Only issue I remember early on with the 303 was the street side springs were underrated for the large slide with all the appliances/pantry in it. IIRC ir was about 800 lbs heavier than the curb side. Stiffer springs cured the issue.

 

[Scott'n'Wendy]

We have a 2021 303 and it shows no signs of any problems.
What @goducks14 says is still true. Springs too light on the street side. When I replace the leaf springs I'll stick with the original 2600# on the curb side and install 3000# springs on the street side

 

[huntr70]

Interesting observation this morning at the dealership...newer Cougar came in with frame flex issues.

Pictures should tell the tale. Aftermarket gooseball conversion will get you.....

 

[ajg617]

@huntr70 Interesting. Makes me wonder if Lippert's approval of the Reese Goose Box was vetted with the RV manufacturers - that was a question on the GD TSB - or is this just a Gen-Y issue? GD hasn't balked at my Goose Box. I don't think I've seen a Gen-Y approved yet by GD or LCI though I've read some posts where Gen-Y was supposed to be approved from 2024 up. Haven't seen that in writing.

 

[huntr70]

@huntr70 Interesting. Makes me wonder if Lippert's approval of the Reese Goose Box was vetted with the RV manufacturers - that was a question on the GD TSB - or is this just a Gen-Y issue? GD hasn't balked at my Goose Box. I don't think I've seen a Gen-Y approved yet by GD or LCI though I've read some posts where Gen-Y was supposed to be approved from 2024 up. Haven't seen that in writing.

I had a really good conversation with our DRV/Mobile Suites and a Lippert Rep at a Show over the weekend.

The reason the Gen-Y isn't getting Lippert approval is because it extends the pressure point in the framing. They said that the Gen Y hitch actually puts the contact point about 4 inches forward of where the "factory" pin sits.

That is why Lippert will not approve the Gen Y hitches.

Also interesting, is that a Keystone Rep also told me that you should see more Brinkley frame issues popping up, as they were quietly buying back units that had frame issues. That money has dried up and now they have to go with standard warranty procedures.

I like shows, just for the industry "gossip".

 

[Wileykid]

I had a really good conversation with our DRV/Mobile Suites and a Lippert Rep at a Show over the weekend.

The reason the Gen-Y isn't getting Lippert approval is because it extends the pressure point in the framing. They said that the Gen Y hitch actually puts the contact point about 4 inches forward of where the "factory" pin sits.

That is why Lippert will not approve the Gen Y hitches.

Also interesting, is that a Keystone Rep also told me that you should see more Brinkley frame issues popping up, as they were quietly buying back units that had frame issues. That money has dried up and now they have to go with standard warranty procedures.

I like shows, just for the industry "gossip".

I am curious on how they figured that. The Gen-Y is actually 1 1/2" less pinbox to goose ball than the Reese, and since they bolt up to the same point, how could there be a 4" difference on the pressure applied. Not defending either one, but Brinkley has a video out on testing they did with the Gen-Y by an independent company on Navistars track, and it was pretty impressive on the stress reduction.

 

[goducks14]

It would be interesting to see what the difference between the frames are. Each made by Lippert per manufacture specs.

 

[huntindog]

I had a really good conversation with our DRV/Mobile Suites and a Lippert Rep at a Show over the weekend.

The reason the Gen-Y isn't getting Lippert approval is because it extends the pressure point in the framing. They said that the Gen Y hitch actually puts the contact point about 4 inches forward of where the "factory" pin sits.

That is why Lippert will not approve the Gen Y hitches.

Also interesting, is that a Keystone Rep also told me that you should see more Brinkley frame issues popping up, as they were quietly buying back units that had frame issues. That money has dried up and now they have to go with standard warranty procedures.

I like shows, just for the industry "gossip".

I am curious on how they figured that. The Gen-Y is actually 1 1/2" less pinbox to goose ball than the Reese, and since they bolt up to the same point, how could there be a 4" difference on the pressure applied. Not defending either one, but Brinkley has a video out on testing they did with the Gen-Y by an independent company on Navistars track, and it was pretty impressive on the stress reduction.

Are we confusing pin boxes with goose boxes?

 

[Wileykid]

Are we confusing pin boxes with goose boxes?

No, maybe just say they both bolt to the trailer in the same exact spot, and even same bolt holes. Both absorb the movement between the trailer and truck differently, but any forces would be going through the same spot. Actually since the Reese is a little longer, it has a longer "arm" which would increase forces. It would be fantastic if some independent company did a side by side comparison with measuring equipment.