Front jacks at angle. Problem?

[CoChris-MGRV]

2018 Solitude 310GK (build date 2/2018). Had trailer about 3-1/2 months and are on our third trip. I just noticed the front jacks are both tilted in at the top (towards each other). This is side-to-side. Front to rear they seam fairly plumb. I checked the jacks with a bubble level after setting up and verifying the trailer was level in both directions. The right (curb side jack) is 3/8" out of plumb over an 8" length (about 2-1/2 degrees). About half of this appears to be the frame tilted and the other half is the jack mount to the frame. Would have been nice if they cancelled, but they add. The left (street side) is worse, out about 1/2" over 8" (or about 3-1/2 degrees). The frame is very close to vertical. All of the tilt appears to be in the mounting pad for the jack. I have not scraped off the paint, but all of the welds in the area look OK (welds look like @*&E^#, but I do not see any cracks or signs of distortion). I suspect the frame was just built this way (as opposed to bending with use). Tomorrow (when we hook up) i will check the jacks without any load to see if that is effecting them. The tilt (top of jacks are closer together than the bottoms) causes the pads to visibly move in and out (sideways) as the trailer is jacked up and down. This is putting a lot of side stress on the jacks/mounts/frame. There is another Solitude in the same camp (I believe a 384GK, build date 12/2017) that has similar, but not as extreme issue with the front jacks. I will keep an eye on it and see if it gets worse. I am sure the dealer will just blow it off as the system works fine (for now). My question is have other Solitude or Momentum owners notice this and has it caused issues? Really my question is how hard do I push on the dealer and/or Grand Design when I contact them?

Thank you for any help, insight and wisdom you can to share.

Chris

 

[WhittleBurner]

I see that tilt on a lot of trailers with self levelers. I believe its intended so as to help take movement out of the trailer when moving around inside.

 

[CoChris-MGRV]

Thank you Gary. I had not thought of it being more stable.

Chris

 

[TheLexx]

Our right rear (passengers side) jack is canted at an angle toward the outside. The driver side rear jack is vertical. One of these is not right.

 

[huntr70]

The front hydraulic jacks are always installed "leaning in" at the top.

It is for more stability.

Electric jacks should be straight.

 

[JCR GD]

...The tilt (top of jacks are closer together than the bottoms) causes the pads to visibly move in and out (sideways) as the trailer is jacked up and down. This is putting a lot of side stress on the jacks/mounts/frame. ...

This is why it is important to have something (or nothing) under the jack pads that will allow for this movement. The higher you go the further out the pads want to go and need to "slip."

The angle on the front jacks is normal.

 

[boyscout]

2018 310GK just picked up a few days ago, haven't checked the build date.

I noticed this after bringing it home. Both front jacks lean in at top, out at bottom; the other four look close to vertical.

To my eye, the driver's side jack pad is about 1/2" further out than the passenger side jack pad. I wish @CoChris was closer to provide his precision talents at measurement but I'd guess that the driver's jack is about 1/2" further out at the bottom.

Still OK, experts?

 

[JCR GD]

Mine aren't exactly the same either. I'm sure they are within Lippert accepted tolerance as long as they are similar and not changing.

 

[D2Reid]

My question is have other Solitude or Momentum owners notice this and has it caused issues? Chris

I first noticed this on a neighbors Raptor before I bought my Momentum. I talked to him about it and he didn't know why it appeared there was a cant to the legs. My Momentum appears to have a bit of a cant to the legs, I just assumed that was the way they were built.

Now the next question is: Does the cant have to do with the way the rv is setting, does it change left vs right?

I hadn't thought to pay much attention to it but when we go back into travel mode in Sep I will try to remember to pay attention.

 

[Canyonlight]

The higher you go the further out the pads want to go and need to "slip."

The angle on the front jacks is normal.

Jim - I wonder how much wider the footprint becomes when the front jacks are fully extended v.s. fully retracted. I would suspect a couple inches which seems a relatively strong stress on the jacks/frame but apparently designed to take this (as well as slip as you point out to alleviate this bending stress.)

Dan

 

[JCR GD]

Dan, it's at least 2" and maybe 3" at each jack. So you can only imagine the amount of stress if not allowed to slip. The first time mine made a sudden big slip instead of a slow constant slip it scared the H*** out of me. Also, I hope that the Lippert engineers have fully thought out the weight stress on the front legs when fully extended.

Edit P.S. I now use "slip" pads under the fronts on pretty much any surface (except sand) so I don't have to change my shorts anymore while setting up.

 

[Cate&Rob]

I have watched large 5th wheels with hydraulic landing gear set up with the tall red plastic "blocks" under their front landing gear pads. You can watch these "upside down buckets" tip outward as the landing gear is extended . . . I have always wondered about that .

Rob

 

[Canyonlight]

Dan, it's at least 2" and maybe 3" at each jack. So you can only imagine the amount of stress if not allowed to slip. The first time mine made a sudden big slip instead of a slow constant slip it scared the H*** out of me. Also, I hope that the Lippert engineers have fully thought out the weight stress on the front legs when fully extended.

Edit P.S. I now use "slip" pads under the fronts on pretty much any surface (except sand) so I don't have to change my shorts anymore while setting up.

Yousers ! The good news is that usual contact with ground probably is done at about 1/2 extension and rarely goes to full extension thus lessening the stresses.
X2 on slip pads and changing shorts.....funny !

Dan

 

[JCR GD]

I have watched large 5th wheels with hydraulic landing gear set up with the tall red plastic "blocks" under their front landing gear pads. You can watch these "upside down buckets" tip outward as the landing gear is extended . . . I have always wondered about that .

Rob

I'm surprised the "buckets" don't have a warning not to use on angled hydraulic jacks.... or maybe they do.

 

[TheLexx]

I have the Anderson red buckets. I like them because it allows me to not extend the front jacks much at all. I double up the front buckets one on top of each other. I'm going to get two more for the rear jacks.

Because the front jacks don't extend much, there is noticeably less movement up front.

It also makes setting up much faster since I don't have to drag out as much wood.

 

[Airrace]

Boyscout, my front jacks are like yours. Drivers side looks very "odd" with the tilt and pax side not so much. For pads I use 2 12x12x3/4 screwed together for 11/2" high with some aluminum diamond plate. Does allow jack to slip but rig moves a lot.

 

[CoChris-MGRV]

Well this just got a little more interesting for me. I am back (for a week) before the next trip and decided to call Lippert. Talked to tech support who pulled up the drawing by frame number and talked to a "frame tech". They say ALL jacks, including the front landing gear should be vertical on this frame. They could not give me a tolerance, but the frame tech said that if they are tilted it will put a side load on the jacks and frame and can cause a failure (my concern also). I pointed out that all similar trailers (Solitude & Momentum) from Grand Design have this tilt. They did not have an answer.

I have a call into Grand Design (left voice mail). Hope I hear back. I will be on the road all of Aug and will report back what I hear when I can (last trip cell/internet service was non-existent).

Chris

 

[JCR GD]

Interesting. Mine are clearly designed to be at an angle cuz the mounting brackets have the angle built into them.

The front legs that have the drop and pin lower leg may be what they were thinking of and saying must be straight.

 

[huntr70]

It's not just Grand Design either, all brands that have hydraulic self leveling have the tilted mounts in the front.

 

[Airrace]

Jim I think you are right. My drop and pin electric jacks were very straight. The hydraulic jack bracket is welded at an angle.