Furrion Tankless Water Heater - Cold Weather

[wannabervin]

Sounds like someone didn’t think that through in design—having an Arctic package but a “not so Arctic” water heater. I bet that changes on future editions.


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[RPAspey]

Ok, I just installed my solution to protect the water heater from freezing temps. I found a 15watt, 12 volt silicone heater and a 35 degree snap switch (on at 35 and off at 45). I tapped off the load side of the switch for power, installed the snap switch on the removable plate. I was able to slide the heater pad under the control. It's not secured, so I'm able to adjust the position if necessary. So, it'll be enabled anytime the outside power switch is on. [ [A]

 

[dfleming1033]

Ok, I just installed my solution to protect the water heater from freezing temps. I found a 15watt, 12 volt silicone heater and a 35 degree snap switch (on at 35 and off at 45). I tapped off the load side of the switch for power, installed the snap switch on the removable plate. I was able to slide the heater pad under the control. It's not secured, so I'm able to adjust the position if necessary. So, it'll be enabled anytime the outside power switch is on. [View attachment 36897View attachment 36898[A]View attachment 36899

That is an awesome idea. Any links to the heater and switch or name/model numbers you can provide? Be sure and report back when you get a chance to try it out in sub freezing temps. I'm really interested in seeing this work. Most of our camping happens in the winter, and 20 degrees nights are not out of the question. That's one of the reasons I got a grand design with the "arctic package". We had an XLS with the 6 gal tank heater and never had any issues at all with it. I'm so disappointed the new 2022 320 MKS upgrade is a down grade in some areas or it will be if we can't camp in sub freezing temps.

 

[RPAspey]

That is an awesome idea. Any links to the heater and switch or name/model numbers you can provide? Be sure and report back when you get a chance to try it out in sub freezing temps. I'm really interested in seeing this work. Most of our camping happens in the winter, and 20 degrees nights are not out of the question. That's one of the reasons I got a grand design with the "arctic package". We had an XLS with the 6 gal tank heater and never had any issues at all with it. I'm so disappointed the new 2022 320 MKS upgrade is a down grade in some areas or it will be if we can't camp in sub freezing temps.

I also glued Aero-gel insulation to the cover. Bought 10mm. Could go thinner. Just to monitor the situation, I also bought an in/out thermometer with min/max. Here are the links:

Icstation Heating Pad Electric... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071KTPPGB?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Senasys Snap Disc Thermostat... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0026S6WGK?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Hiwowsport Aerogel Insulation... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HFZHTRL?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Refrigerator Thermometer Digital... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0084ZEE4Q?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

[dfleming1033]

I also glued Aero-gel insulation to the cover. Bought 10mm. Could go thinner. Just to monitor the situation, I also bought an in/out thermometer with min/max. Here are the links:

Icstation Heating Pad Electric... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071KTPPGB?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Senasys Snap Disc Thermostat... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0026S6WGK?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Hiwowsport Aerogel Insulation... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HFZHTRL?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Refrigerator Thermometer Digital... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0084ZEE4Q?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Thanks so Much! Have you had it out yet in sub freezing temps yet? I really like the fact you went with a 12 volt, that hopefully will keep things from freezing during your travels without having to drain things. By the way, your job looks very professional!

 

[RPAspey]

Thanks so Much! Have you had it out yet in sub freezing temps yet? I really like the fact you went with a 12 volt, that hopefully will keep things from freezing during your travels without having to drain things. By the way, your job looks very professional!

I was only able to simulate freezing weather by holding an ice cube on the temperature switch. Good enough to verify operation. Hopefully it'll be cold enough to test on our next trip in a week or so.

 

[RPAspey]

Pic of the Aero-gel insulation.

 

[newbold1]

My wife and I just returned from a 3,040 mile roundtrip out to Dubois, WY from Nashville, TN. While in Wyoming, we had nights where the temps went into the 20s. The good news is that having a small heater in the basement, which I had set to cycle on/off using a thermostatically controlled power outlet, managed to keep the basement and water heater warm enough to prevent any issues. The water heater worked fine no matter the outside temperature.

Additionally, the elevation in Dubois, WY is over 6,900 feet. This too did not seem to have any negative effect on the function of the water heater.

I am pleased to see that it appears we will be able to use the RV normally in colder climates in spite of the Furrion warnings regarding the water heater. I plan to get a bilge heater (like for boats and safer than a space heater) which I will install in the basement. This should give me a more permanent solution to keeping that area warm when the weather is cold.

 

[dfleming1033]

My wife and I just returned from a 3,040 mile roundtrip out to Dubois, WY from Nashville, TN. While in Wyoming, we had nights where the temps went into the 20s. The good news is that having a small heater in the basement, which I had set to cycle on/off using a thermostatically controlled power outlet, managed to keep the basement and water heater warm enough to prevent any issues. The water heater worked fine no matter the outside temperature.

Additionally, the elevation in Dubois, WY is over 6,900 feet. This too did not seem to have any negative effect on the function of the water heater.

I am pleased to see that it appears we will be able to use the RV normally in colder climates in spite of the Furrion warnings regarding the water heater. I plan to get a bilge heater (like for boats and safer than a space heater) which I will install in the basement. This should give me a more permanent solution to keeping that area warm when the weather is cold.

That's encouraging, and will be a good solution if you aren't boondocking, but I wonder with the heat that is already in basement with the ducted heating system, if you would even need additional heating. I noticed today on my 320mks which I went and looked at to get a grasp on what RPAspey was doing and I noticed the propane heating system is located right next to the tankless heater. Perhaps that location will also help to keep the system from freezing... BTW, The marine bilge heaters are much safer than a space heater, but you can also use rough duty 100 watt incandescent bulbs on a thermostat to generate heat in a localized area without being too concerned about combustion.
We could get a clue about Furrion's excessive warnings when they say you have to drain it at 39 degrees. That's obviously not the case since water freezes at 32 and to bust copper piping it would take lower than that for a period of time... This may all be much ado about nothing. I'm getting the min max temp recorder RPA mentioned and plan on using it to see if we even have anything to be concerned about... When we first camp in sub freezing temps, I'll go ahead and drain the tankless, then check next day to see what reality is regarding temps in that area. Thanks for that insight, I'll post what I find out and maybe others will also. What model is your RV and do you know if the heat system is next to the tankless?

 

[newbold1]

We tried to minimize the use of the propane heat during our trip and so that is why we had the small heater in the basement. The tankless water heaters doesn't seem to use up too much propane on its own but the propane heater seems to go through it fairly quickly. However, if we were using the propane heater then I think I probably wouldn't need to do any other supplemental heating in the basement at all. Since we do not boondock very often we would rather use the electricity included in the cost of the nightly rate than to use up our propane that we would have to replace at additional cost. We did run the propane heat on occasion though when we wanted to get the RV to a certain temp more quickly.

Our RV model is the 2022 Reflection 367BHS and yes the propane heater is next to the tankless water heater. I actually removed the "wall" separating that area of the basement from the storage bay and took a good look back there. I think the propane heater will keep that area quite warm. There is also plenty of space for me to install the bilge heater as well. I feel more confident now that I am not really going to have to worry about the tankless water heater being a problem in colder weather.

 

[dfleming1033]

We tried to minimize the use of the propane heat during our trip and so that is why we had the small heater in the basement. The tankless water heaters doesn't seem to use up too much propane on its own but the propane heater seems to go through it fairly quickly. However, if we were using the propane heater then I think I probably wouldn't need to do any other supplemental heating in the basement at all. Since we do not boondock very often we would rather use the electricity included in the cost of the nightly rate than to use up our propane that we would have to replace at additional cost. We did run the propane heat on occasion though when we wanted to get the RV to a certain temp more quickly.

Our RV model is the 2022 Reflection 367BHS and yes the propane heater is next to the tankless water heater. I actually removed the "wall" separating that area of the basement from the storage bay and took a good look back there. I think the propane heater will keep that area quite warm. There is also plenty of space for me to install the bilge heater as well. I feel more confident now that I am not really going to have to worry about the tankless water heater being a problem in colder weather.

That all makes sense. I've not even used my heater yet, but I know from my previous imagine xls that propane burn with the heater is surprising. Having a couple of space heaters is an excellent idea. Thanks!

 

[ckreef]

I too am very disappointed with the tankless water heater. What a bad decision GD made.

What I'm about to type I am not recommending but it is what happened.

Last night the outside temperature got down to 33 or 34 degrees. Below the infamous 39 but not actually freezing. We did not run the furnace. We had a space heater in the living area to keep us warm. No heat in the pass through storage area. This morning all is well with the tankless water heater. I figured it was going to be okay since it didn't actually get to freezing temps.

I figure the infamous 39 degrees is their temperature cushion so they don't have to fix warranty claims when somebody camps below freezing. Artic package with the Furrion tankless heater is a joke.

I just need to go another week before winterizing and it's not supposed to get below 40 over the next week.

 

[RPAspey]

Ive only been out one trip in freezing weather since installing the silicone heating pad in the water heater. We set up the furnace to kick on at 60 degrees and the fireplace was set at 68. I don't believe the furnace ran but once or twice each night. Outside night FAT was about 26-28 degrees and the day FAT was around 50 degrees. The compartment (we call it the basement) was around 50 degrees. The lowest temperature inside the water heater was around 39 degrees. I believe the heater pad did its job. The thermostatic disc is to close at 35 and open at 39. Keep in mind the location of the disk is right at the vent openings and the thermometer was in a bit further, under the strainer/screen. I believe it was a success.

Other than the cold weather concern, I love that water heater. No more crabby wife when she runs out of hot water rinsing her hair.

 

[dfleming103]

Ive only been out one trip in freezing weather since installing the silicone heating pad in the water heater. We set up the furnace to kick on at 60 degrees and the fireplace was set at 68. I don't believe the furnace ran but once or twice each night. Outside night FAT was about 26-28 degrees and the day FAT was around 50 degrees. The compartment (we call it the basement) was around 50 degrees. The lowest temperature inside the water heater was around 39 degrees. I believe the heater pad did its job. The thermostatic disc is to close at 35 and open at 39. Keep in mind the location of the disk is right at the vent openings and the thermometer was in a bit further, under the strainer/screen. I believe it was a success.

Other than the cold weather concern, I love that water heater. No more crabby wife when she runs out of hot water rinsing her hair.

Thanks for that update! It does sound like that mod has done the trick. I've got the parts now, looks like I have a project.

 

[Straight Trippin]

Hello Everyone,

My hubby and I are full time camp hosts in Colorado, and it gets down to the teens here. Our 2021 reflection 315RLTS came standard with a tankless water heater...we were thrilled, because we were going to install one after market, but we didn't need to. It works really well, and we love it! Here's the caveat. Our hot water has frozen about four times already, causing a leak below the tank.

Not knowing exactly where the lines were freezing, we looked into how the unit works. We did some research, and found out that it isn't winter friendly and can freeze or get damaged at 39 degrees and below.

We purchased a four season travel trailer to winter in. When we purchased it, there was no mention of the 39 degree low point warning! So we finally figured out the water lines weren't freezing, the unit itself is freezing! The only way to avoid the freezing hot the water inlet inside the unit, is to stream water through the faucets when the temps drop. Not drip..stream. We have also thought of putting heat tape or even a heating pad on it...but we can't access the water inlet inside the unit. To avoid freezing water, we keep our RV at around 70 degrees at night and have even place a small space heater under the closet behind the unit to keep it warm, but it still freezes if we don't stream the water taps.

We are super disappointed, because we love this tankless water heater. So far it is still working and it doesn't freeze any more... if we stream the water when the temps dip at night...which is every night here. But we are really concerned the unit has been damaged. We haven't reached out to Grand Design yet, but wanted to add our experience here.

Thank you!

 

[dfleming103]

Ive only been out one trip in freezing weather since installing the silicone heating pad in the water heater. We set up the furnace to kick on at 60 degrees and the fireplace was set at 68. I don't believe the furnace ran but once or twice each night. Outside night FAT was about 26-28 degrees and the day FAT was around 50 degrees. The compartment (we call it the basement) was around 50 degrees. The lowest temperature inside the water heater was around 39 degrees. I believe the heater pad did its job. The thermostatic disc is to close at 35 and open at 39. Keep in mind the location of the disk is right at the vent openings and the thermometer was in a bit further, under the strainer/screen. I believe it was a success.

Other than the cold weather concern, I love that water heater. No more crabby wife when she runs out of hot water rinsing her hair.

Hey RPAspey,
Wondering if you have had any chances to go out again in freezing weather? just curious how that modification worked out with somewhat lower temps? Still feel like it's a safe alternative to having to shut off and drain the tankless heater?
Thanks for the update!

 

[RPAspey]

Hey RPAspey,
Wondering if you have had any chances to go out again in freezing weather? just curious how that modification worked out with somewhat lower temps? Still feel like it's a safe alternative to having to shut off and drain the tankless heater?
Thanks for the update!

I haven't been back out. Had to put her to bed until spring. It won't be until March sometime until I bring her home.

 

[4x4dually]

I've been super happy with our on demand hot water....until I read all this BS. Thanks a lot. Now I'm scared to even use it in the winter.

39F? That number is a joke. Dang laws of physics must have changed. LOL

 

[Mike Clay]

I've been super happy with our on demand hot water....until I read all this BS. Thanks a lot. Now I'm scared to even use it in the winter.

39F? That number is a joke. Dang laws of physics must have changed. LOL

Yep. Bummed me out too. The sales folks really played up the “arctic” BS with no mention of this weak link. I’m in Oklahoma too. Been breaking ice for the cows but my wife won’t tolerate me breaking ice for her so I guess winter camping is a no-go.

 

[4x4dually]

Yep. Bummed me out too. The sales folks really played up the “arctic” BS with no mention of this weak link. I’m in Oklahoma too. Been breaking ice for the cows but my wife won’t tolerate me breaking ice for her so I guess winter camping is a no-go.

Preach it. Breaking ice isn't much fun, but so far, it's dang sure better than last year! Kids played hockey with sticks on the pond last year until I told them it was time to water the cows and break some of it up.

Wife wants to take the camper out this weekend. I'm not really in the mood to de-winterize then winterize again two days later but I guess here we are. Boss and worker bee both know their role. LOL