Future owner of Momentum 349M towing with RAM 3500

[ngm011]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here, but I did learn massively from this forum in the past. My wife and I finally decided to pull the trigger on 2018 Momentum 349M since it seems like the best balance of adequate floor plan and our max towing capacity.

Here the emphasize is on the towing capacity.

I'm not overly experienced towing guy but I would say I know enough to juggle main towing criteria. Instead of juggling I would like to hear your honest opinions especially from 349M owners.

My truck is 2021 RAM 3500 Big Horn Cummins High-output, Aisin, 8' bed, SRW, 3.73 Axle Ratio with the following specs from the label/factory sheet:

GVWR: 12,300 lbs
Max. Towing: 25,338 lbs
GCWR: 33,610 lbs
GAWR Front: 6,000 lbs
GAWR Rear: 7,000 lbs
Payload: 4,028 lbs
Tires Front & Rear: LT275/70R18E (Firestone Transforce HT - E rated - 3,638 lbs)

Truck on the cat scale with full gas (50 gallons tank) and 2 adults + 1 kid without trailer is:

Steer Axle: 5,340 lbs
Drive Axle: 3,300 lbs
Gross Weight: 8,640 lbs

The trailer has the following specs from the label/factory sheet:

UVW: 13,982 lbs
GVWR:16,500 lbs
Payload: 2,458 lbs

Since I still didn't get the trailer, but I want to close the deal soon, the real question is the pin weight.

As you can probably see, I have max 3,700 left of payload. I'm not looking to put more stuff in the truck but I would like to have ~10% of leeway before maxing the thing out.
It would be really nice to hear pin weight experiences on 349M half loaded (~15k lbs) and fullly loaded (~16.5k lbs) with and without toys. Also, I would appreciate a lot any insight in real world experiences of effects on pin weight once either water/gray tank is filled and/or basement etc.

I'm fully aware of all DRW benefits, but as of now trading the truck is not an option.

Owners of the similar coaches such as 351M are also welcome.

Thank you GD community,

--- ngm

 

[jjbbrewer]

Hi & welcome! First off, I'm going to say, "excellent choice" on your 349M. Of course I'm going to say that, though.

Second, here's some data on the setup I have in my .sig - all from the same CAT scale (near my house)

2020 F-450 specs
GVWR: 14,000 lbs
GAWR front: 6,000 lbs
GAWR rear: 9,900 lbs
GCWR (5th wheel): 37,000 lbs

Weights - truck alone with 1/2 tank fuel & Companion 25K hitch
Steer Axle: 5,160 lbs
Drive Axle: 4,160 lbs
Gross Weight: 9,320 lbs

Weights - truck with full fuel tank pulling 2021 Grand Design 349M empty garage, all holding tanks empty except 30 gals generator fuel, full propane (60 lbs)
Steer Axle: 5,260 lbs
Drive Axle: 7,200 lbs
Trailer Axle(s): 11,840 lbs
Gross Weight: 24,300 lbs

Weights - truck with full fuel tank pulling 349M with 2 Ducati race motorcycles, full roll around tool box, race gear, empty holding tanks, full fuel tanks (60 gal), full water tanks (155 gal), full propane (60 lbs)
Steer Axle: 5,320 lbs
Drive Axle: 7,380 lbs
Trailer Axle(s): 14,840 lbs
Gross Weight: 27,540 lbs

 

[NB Canada]

Don’t forget the hitch unless your cat weight includes one
Looks like a 10 percent margin will be impossible


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew

 

[ngm011]

Wow interesting info, thank you so much my fellow biker.

Let me just verify if I got it correctly by breaking it down.
Basically, your pin weight is 3,040 lbs with pretty dry trailer (probably you have stuff in the trailer that you never take out).
Whereas almost fully loaded trailer with two Ducatis and fluids is 3,220 lbs. That means it added only 180 lbs to the pin once the toys were in.

Considering you added 3,000 lbs into trailer (bikes + gear + water + more fuel) it's very interesting how it affected the pin weight.

Those 3,000 lbs include 155 gallons of water and additional 30 gallons of fuel. I'm wondering whether the water helps to relieve the pin weight as well?
They usually estimate little bit over 8 pounds per gallon for water which would imply that 1/2 of that added weight of 3,000 lbs is liquids.

Another observation is that your fully loaded trailer's weight is 18,060 lbs which might look like it's over trailer's GVWR of 17,000 lbs but considering you transfered over 3k lbs to the pin it's perfectly acceptable?

Now my use cases include BMW R1250 GS Adventure which is ~600 lbs dry bike and very often no toys at all.

I would like to stay in low 3k on the pin so I can make sure I don't carry water when there's no load in the garage unless water actually helps to lower pin weight?

--- ngm

 

[ngm011]

Don’t forget the hitch unless your cat weight includes one
Looks like a 10 percent margin will be impossible


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew

Humm, while the hitch wasn't included on the scale indeed, according to the numbers reported above I should be able to achieve ~3.2k lbs on the pin.
Including 150 lbs - 200 lbs hitch that would still stay below 3.6k lbs (my pin weight with 10% leeway).

That being said, I'm looking into goose neck options. I would like to stay with 5th hitch however the 349M's seller praises his Reese 20k goose neck a lot.

--- ngm

 

[jjbbrewer]

Basically, your pin weight is 3,040 lbs with pretty dry trailer (probably you have stuff in the trailer that you never take out).

Yep, but very little stuff that I never take out. I should mention I have the 3-season doors, happi jack, and optional 2nd bathroom in the garage.

Whereas almost fully loaded trailer with two Ducatis and fluids is 3,220 lbs. That means it added only 180 lbs to the pin once the toys were in.

Yes sir. As for the bikes - the 1199R Panigale weighs 375 lbs. with all fluids ready to ride, and the 1098R weighs 390 lbs. I reckon my toolbox weighs in the neighborhood of 200 lbs.

Considering you added 3,000 lbs into trailer (bikes + gear + water + more fuel) it's very interesting how it affected the pin weight.

Isn't it? The bikes, tools, gear, and all of the fuel sits behind the rear axle, so probably takes off pin weight.

I think the water tanks are either near or slightly in front of the trailer axles. Other model diagrams show them directly beneath the kitchen floor, which I think is true on the 349M as well since that's where the dump valves are.

Those 3,000 lbs include 155 gallons of water and additional 30 gallons of fuel. I'm wondering whether the water helps to relieve the pin weight as well?

If the tanks are slightly in front, I think they probably add pin weight. I filled them up for this weight experiment, but my rule of thumb is only carry enough to get me to the next water fill - be it a campsite or spigot near a campsite.

They usually estimate little bit over 8 pounds per gallon for water which would imply that 1/2 of that added weight of 3,000 lbs is liquids.

Yep.

Another observation is that your fully loaded trailer's weight is 18,060 lbs which might look like it's over trailer's GVWR of 17,000 lbs but considering you transfered over 3k lbs to the pin it's perfectly acceptable?

Well, since my dually will support and pull pretty much anything I can throw at it, I don't worry too much about pin weight and subsequently GVWR for the trailer. My main concern is overloading the 7,000lb axles since those are the things that break. My full load has them 840 lbs. overloaded, so by having <40 gals of water while traveling I'm just at the axle limits and right near the GVWR for the trailer. (I'll re-weigh for my next race with 40 gals of water to see where I am).

Now my use cases include BMW R1250 GS Adventure which is ~600 lbs dry bike and very often no toys at all.

To be nice to your trailer, you should get a Ducati Superbike. (j/k .. I need an adventure bike - I have a couple of pretty good dual sport bikes for single track - a GS or Adventure R would be a nice addition to the garage)

I would like to stay in low 3k on the pin so I can make sure I don't carry water when there's no load in the garage unless water actually helps to lower pin weight?

I really think the water adds pin weight and REALLY adds trailer axle weight. No use hauling that stuff around if you can get it at your destination. You could carry your GS in the garage to alleviate pin weight, but then you need to consider weight at the rear causing sway.

Hope this all helps.

 

[jjbbrewer]

Humm, while the hitch wasn't included on the scale indeed, according to the numbers reported above I should be able to achieve ~3.2k lbs on the pin.
Including 150 lbs - 200 lbs hitch that would still stay below 3.6k lbs (my pin weight with 10% leeway).

That being said, I'm looking into goose neck options. I would like to stay with 5th hitch however the 349M's seller praises his Reese 20k goose neck a lot.

B&W says the Companion 25K hitch weighs 166 lbs, so kind of falling into a rounding error.

I'll go ahead and praise my Companion 25K hitch for my 349M. It's VERY simple & quick to hook up, super solid, and doesn't have any chains hanging down to get in the way. It's also way easy to take out of the bed with the puck system attachment since it comes apart into 2 pieces.

 

[ngm011]

Thank you for all this info, it means a lot.

Yep, but very little stuff that I never take out. I should mention I have the 3-season doors, happi jack, and optional 2nd bathroom in the garage.

2018 349M I'm looking to get is the same setup minus 2nd bathroom. Also its GVWR is 16,500 lbs instead of 17,000 lbs of yours.

Well, since my dually will support and pull pretty much anything I can throw at it, I don't worry too much about pin weight and subsequently GVWR for the trailer. My main concern is overloading the 7,000lb axles since those are the things that break. My full load has them 840 lbs. overloaded, so by having <40 gals of water while traveling I'm just at the axle limits and right near the GVWR for the trailer. (I'll re-weigh for my next race with 40 gals of water to see where I am).

It must be a great feeling being free of pin weight concerns!

I know that a dually upgrade is a must however you slice it or dice it. The thing is I have just gotten the brand new truck and any trade at this time would cost me a fortune.
All I'm trying to see is if my 4k pin would let me roam with 349M for a couple years. Everything else on that truck (Cummins HO, 8' bed, 5th prep, towing package etc. etc.) is 5th wheel hauling friendly.

By the way, would you suggest putting any suspension enhancements such as sulastic shackles and Airlift airbags? I know they don't change payload numbers but when I'm left with 300-400 lbs of available payload, would they help anything?

Regarding hitting 7k axle limit on the trailer, have you thought of MORryde 8k independent axle upgrade?

To be nice to your trailer, you should get a Ducati Superbike. (j/k .. I need an adventure bike - I have a couple of pretty good dual sport bikes for single track - a GS or Adventure R would be a nice addition to the garage)

Maaan, those Ducati's of yours, not that I wouldn't take them out, I wouldn't put them in the RV garage either, they would be just sitting in my room . They are beautiful, a piece of art!

--- ngm

 

[wdhartman12]

I have a Ram 2500 Cummins. 6 1/2' bed.
Just going from memory- (my numbers might be a hair off).
But I learned when I picked up my new Fifth wheel, The Ram website listed my truck payload at 2900ish, but looking at my trucks white sticker on the "B" pillar drivers door, the Payload was only listed at 2490 lbs.
Just my 2 cents- look at your truck sticker.... There are so many factors in truck build configuration that affect payload, its a giant spreadsheet on the dealer site.

 

[ngm011]

My 4,028 lbs payload comes from the yellow sticker at the driver’s door.

—- ngm

 

[jjbbrewer]

Thank you for all this info, it means a lot.

No prob! I've gotten A TON of help from this forum, so helping out is fun.

It must be a great feeling being free of pin weight concerns!

It was a decision for sure. I needed a new truck and I was shying away from long beds and duallys mostly because I didn't want to navigate an aircraft carrier around as a daily driver. But trying to make the truck & toy hauler decision to match was just a pain for us, so I broke down and bought a truck that wouldn't constrain any toy hauler decision.

I know that a dually upgrade is a must however you slice it or dice it. The thing is I have just gotten the brand new truck and any trade at this time would cost me a fortune.

You're spot on there. I think you can still get around with the 349M, you "only" need to pay attention to pin weight more than I do. I would think you're fine, but I haven't pulled my trailer with anything but my dually.

By the way, would you suggest putting any suspension enhancements such as sulastic shackles and Airlift airbags? I know they don't change payload numbers but when I'm left with 300-400 lbs of available payload, would they help anything?

Honestly, I haven't a clue. There are lots of others on this forum that would know, though, for sure. Try searching around for those terms and see what comes up.

Regarding hitting 7k axle limit on the trailer, have you thought of MORryde 8k independent axle upgrade?

I did think of it and .. I know I'm going to get lambasted for this .. but I'm not a fan of the shear spring suspension. There are many others on this forum that have the MORryde IS and are very happy with it. And that's great.
Personally, I'm anticipating getting a Timberen STI or a Ridewell RAR-244 with disc brakes added.

Maaan, those Ducati's of yours, not that I wouldn't take them out, I wouldn't put them in the RV garage either, they would be just sitting in my room . They are beautiful, a piece of art!

Thanks - the Italian bikes are indeed something to look at.
But rowing through the gearbox with a handful of throttle is a whole different thing, so no way are they garage queens!

 

[ngm011]

Hi & welcome! First off, I'm going to say, "excellent choice" on your 349M. Of course I'm going to say that, though.

Second, here's some data on the setup I have in my .sig - all from the same CAT scale (near my house)

2020 F-450 specs
GVWR: 14,000 lbs
GAWR front: 6,000 lbs
GAWR rear: 9,900 lbs
GCWR (5th wheel): 37,000 lbs

Weights - truck alone with 1/2 tank fuel & Companion 25K hitch
Steer Axle: 5,160 lbs
Drive Axle: 4,160 lbs
Gross Weight: 9,320 lbs

Weights - truck with full fuel tank pulling 2021 Grand Design 349M empty garage, all holding tanks empty except 30 gals generator fuel, full propane (60 lbs)
Steer Axle: 5,260 lbs
Drive Axle: 7,200 lbs
Trailer Axle(s): 11,840 lbs
Gross Weight: 24,300 lbs

Weights - truck with full fuel tank pulling 349M with 2 Ducati race motorcycles, full roll around tool box, race gear, empty holding tanks, full fuel tanks (60 gal), full water tanks (155 gal), full propane (60 lbs)
Steer Axle: 5,320 lbs
Drive Axle: 7,380 lbs
Trailer Axle(s): 14,840 lbs
Gross Weight: 27,540 lbs

Hey my biker & 349M fellow,

To contribute back with my experience so far.

After almost constant full-time of 8 months on the road with 349M doing some mods along the way, here are my numbers.

My 2021 RAM 3500 Big Horn 8' bed, without trailer but with full 50 gal diesel tank, full DEF, toolbox, 2 adults, 5 year old, big portable fridge and B&W ball in the bed is:

GAWR Front: 6,000 lbs
GAWR Rear: 7,000 lbs
GVWR: 12,300 lbs
GCWR: 33,610 lbs
Max. Payload: 4,028 lbs
Max. Towing: 25,338 lbs

Steer Axle: 5,400 lbs
Drive Axle: 3,380 lbs
Gross Weight: 8,780 lbs

My 2018 349M has 16,500 lbs GVWR, 2x 7k axles. Yours is 2020, correct? They come with 17,000 lbs GVWR, does the sticker state that?

Well, when I got it this summer, bare bone with no water, propane, gas in the tanks or anything loaded for traveling (as close to factory build as possible except 4x Interstate 6v flood batteries and 2x 100w solar panels) it was 11,360 lbs + 3,300 lbs on the pin. This was with factory kingpin and anderson hitch in the bed.
This kinda matches your empty setup aside from 300 more pounds on the pin.

Soon I added Reese Goose Box 20k and B&W ball in the bed. That along with basic camping stuff, no water, propane and gas in the tanks resulted in my trailer being at 12,080 lbs (720 lbs more) + 3,360 lbs (60 lbs more) on the pin.

Loaded with everything needed for full-time, 35 gal of water, empty black, empty gray, full 2x 30 lbs propane and 5 gal of gen gas brought me to 12,640 lbs (560 lbs more) + 3,600 lbs (240 lbs more).

After I upgraded front bay with Victron inverter and solar controller, 5x lithium batteries (kicked out 4x Interstate ones) my trailer's weight went to 12,840 lbs (200 lbs more) + 3,840 lbs (240 lbs more) on the pin. I didn't expect this much of pin weight gain though.

Now, after bullet proofing for boondocking I added 5x 200w solar panels on the roof + Reese hitch carrier with Camco 36 gal waste tank on it, I'm at 13,320 lbs (480 lbs more) + 3,980 lbs (140 lbs more) on the pin.

Basically, I'm around 700 lbs less than 2x 7k axle limit and that's without toy in the garage - which for good or bad stayed merely empty. Truck is 100-300 lbs over its rear axle of 7k.

The truck pulls good, the trailer has no sway but the trailer's springs are on the flat side. How are yours looking like?

--- ngm