Generator vs Solar

[Lafamaku]

I tried to search the forum for this, but either my search string wasn't correct or it wasn't verbatim to other previous posts. So that is a long way of apologizing if this has been discussed previously.

I am debating with myself on a reasonable solar install with up to 400 watts of Lithium Batteries. We live in Minnesota and many of the State Parks, State forest and National forest campgrounds do not have eclectic sites, or if they do have some eclectic sites if you don't reserve them the day they come available you wont get one. We would like to be able to camp 1-2 weeks at a time in a location. In addition we do want to boondock/dispersed camp in the future.

With that as a back ground, for those of you that went solar what were the primary reasons besides it being passive, quiet, and always "on" when the sun is out. For those of you who did a genny, what were your primary reasons besides cost, and simpler operation, (other words no complicated install, etc).

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful responses.

 

[Ynot4me2]

Well first you'll need to determine your power requirements and AH amps hour. When off grid, do you want to run the ac, microwave, TV..... then you'll need to determine your budget. Solar and lifepo4 batteries are expensive off the start but will last a long time. A lot of boondockers will have solar and a geny to top off the batteries. It really depends on your needs, length of time, budget.

 

[Lafamaku]

Well first you'll need to determine your power requirements and AH amps hour. When off grid, do you want to run the ac, microwave, TV..... then you'll need to determine your budget. Solar and lifepo4 batteries are expensive off the start but will last a long time. A lot of boondockers will have solar and a geny to top off the batteries. It really depends on your needs, length of time, budget.

Thanks! I have gone through the math and which is where I came up with the 400ah. (I used Watts above...my mistake) Our needs are moderate. I know this is a bad response, but I am flexible with budget. I am not printing cash at home, but I would rather make a good decision on Solar Vs Geny and then work my way into a reasonable budget.

 

[Ynot4me2]

OK now, let's go shopping. Lol. Just kidding. I'd definitely go solar maybe 2 x 150 watt or 4 x 100 watt, lifepo4 (check out the thread on building your own for a fraction of the price) if you go DIY I'd go 2 x 280ah, I'd also carry a small geny 2000 watt inverter for those days where you need to top up.

 

[el Rojo]

You really need both.

 

[Lafamaku]

OK now, let's go shopping. Lol. Just kidding. I'd definitely go solar maybe 2 x 150 watt or 4 x 100 watt, lifepo4 (check out the thread on building your own for a fraction of the price) if you go DIY I'd go 2 x 280ah, I'd also carry a small geny 2000 watt inverter for those days where you need to top up.

I see you have a 22MLE. That is the unit we have as well. What I hear people indicating is if you have Solar, you still need a small genny for cloudy days or shady locations. That just made the investment bigger. I was hoping it was going to be an "either / or" not an "and".

 

[Ynot4me2]

I see you have a 22MLE. That is the unit we have as well. What I hear people indicating is if you have Solar, you still need a small genny for cloudy days or shady locations. That just made the investment bigger. I was hoping it was going to be an "either / or" not an "and".

It all comes down to your needs, budget and battery bank. The geny is only there if your battery bank gets low. If your battery bank is superior to your needs then no need for a small geny. BTW theres good deals on small 2000 watt inverters. It doesn't have to be a Ferrari or Honda.
Check out this post from a 22mle member https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/showthread.php/33078-My-22MLE-solar-install-of-a-modest-system

 

[bertschb]

You really need both.

^^^ This is what we did. ^^^

If for some reason the sun doesn't shine for several days (or a week?) in a row, we will use our generator.

 

[RV Sailor]

Both. We have 600 in solar and a Westinghouse dual fuel 4500 ( $1100) for many cloudy days or air conditioning

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Westing...emote-Start-and-RV-Ready-iGen4500DF/314515883

 

[orbiker]

I agree. BOTH
It's always good to have backup.

We have 400ah of lithium battery bank and a Honda 2000. We don't plan to run the ac. KEN

 

[wjpatter]

I tried to search the forum for this, but either my search string wasn't correct or it wasn't verbatim to other previous posts. So that is a long way of apologizing if this has been discussed previously.

I am debating with myself on a reasonable solar install with up to 400 watts of Lithium Batteries. We live in Minnesota and many of the State Parks, State forest and National forest campgrounds do not have eclectic sites, or if they do have some eclectic sites if you don't reserve them the day they come available you wont get one. We would like to be able to camp 1-2 weeks at a time in a location. In addition we do want to boondock/dispersed camp in the future.

With that as a back ground, for those of you that went solar what were the primary reasons besides it being passive, quiet, and always "on" when the sun is out. For those of you who did a genny, what were your primary reasons besides cost, and simpler operation, (other words no complicated install, etc).

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful responses.

It is going to depend on how you travel and how you camp. Without AC, I have added enough batteries to live 3 days without charging. I've added a DC/DC charger to deliver 600 watts charge from the truck alternator while I move locations. If I travel where I need AC, the generator is mandatory. Some people have enough batteries and solar to run the AC but my needs never justified the investment. I have portable solar panels for my science project to figure out how many to add to the roof. What you can do and what you need to do is like the size of you coach. Never the room that you want but enough room that you need. It's depending on your needs.

 

[Lafamaku]

Thanks for everyone's input! I was hoping that I could get by with one or the other. So, what's the purpose of money if you can't spend it.

I plan to do 800 watts of solar supplying 400ah of batteries. I will most likely look into a inexpensive geny to "top off" the batteries.

My current thinking is to do something similar to the install that the Explorist.Life.com did https://www.explorist.life/shop/sol...rawls-argosy-project-high-res-wiring-diagram/

My nephew is an electrician in northern Michigan and has done several solar projects for cabins. So most likely will take the camper up there and have some "adult supervision".

Again, thanks for everyone's input.

 

[CWSWine]

I decided that the best route was lithium battery and generator. The cost of setting up a solar system to run the AC for 8 to 10 hours was just too much money and the requirements are more than I wanted to deal with. We are going to upgrade to AGM or lithium battery but we have found that if we don't need AC we can run the generator for 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the evening and keeps that batteries above 95% charge. Running 4 hours a day only used around 2 gallons of fuel. We boondock for about 30 days a year so 2 gallons of fuel per day would be 60 gallons at 3 bucks a gallon would cost us 180 bucks a year. It would take a long time to pay off a solar system that still may require some generator use.

 

[dbphillips]

I don't see in the OP any AC requirement. You need a gennie to run AC for any period of time unless you use most of your cargo capacity for batteries.

 

[dbphillips]

I plan to do 800 watts of solar supplying 400ah of batteries. I will most likely look into a inexpensive geny to "top off" the batteries.

Again, thanks for everyone's input.

Keep in mind, you will increase your losses pumping that much power through included solar wiring on trailer, which I believe is AWG10 and 15A. 800W of solar is more than 3 times that.

 

[Lafamaku]

I don't see in the OP any AC requirement. You need a gennie to run AC for any period of time unless you use most of your cargo capacity for batteries.

We are not huge AC fans and tend to camp in the fall and spring in the Midwest and then perhaps head south in the winter. So, [MENTION=35938]dbphillips[/MENTION] is right. We are not running our AC or planning to

 

[Lafamaku]

Keep in mind, you will increase your losses pumping that much power through included solar wiring on trailer, which I believe is AWG10 and 15A. 800W of solar is more than 3 times that.

Thanks. I was aware of that. Which is the reason I am having my Nephew help me with the project. We don't plan to use the existing wiring coming from the roof. Albeit convenient, it is undersized.

 

[openrangeowners]

10 AWG wiring can handle up to about 30 amps. My solar (1200 watts) will never exceed 20 amps. It is 3 panels in series with 2 arrays of 3 panels in parallel (ie: 6 x 200 watts). Remember the panels are supplying about 70-80 volts (3 in series) ... it is the solar charge controller that takes that and converts it to 12 volts (and 85 amps over 2 AWG wiring for me).

 

[Xlsmle]

I have posted on this subject in the past so there should be an old post on the forum. I have the 22 mle and go to Montana and Idaho for a month during the summer to get out of the AZ heat. We use two interstate lead acid batteries that came with the trailer, two Renolgy 100 watt lightweight suitcase solar panels, a controller, and a 2000 watt honda generator. We keep the trailer on propane for the fridge and water heater to minimize power use. When we need microwave, hair dryer or curling iron we use the generator. The rest of the time we use the solar panels to easily keep our batteries charged. Been doing this for years on this and other trailers. At night we use a 400w solar generator to run the tv. We charge all day the trailer and solar generator using the two solar panels. Im talking weeks of boondocking as we stay in Forest Service campgrounds. If u do a little management of your power usage such as turn off lights, water pump, heater fan, etc when not using u will find even cheap lead acid batteries will do with a modest solar outfit. If u need air conditioning then you need a bigger generator or a soft start to lower the power needed to start your AC. We dont need AC in Montana or Idaho in the summer. So determine your needs for power and get what solar and generator systems u need to maintain that level of use. Remember, most if not all campgrounds have quiet hours that affect the use of loud generators.

 

[Steve & Sheryl]

Xlsmle has a good post.

I have a 100 Ah Lithium and a 200 watt Renogy briefcase. It works great for camping. Before this I had a 75 Ah lead acid battery and a 95 watt Furrion briefcase. It worked, but barely. We almost never use anything that requires 110 while we are in the trailer, so at this point we don't have a generator or an inverter. Our air conditioning solution is to head either north or up to cooler temperatures. If we can't get to good temperatures we stay somewhere with power. (sidenote: Core of Engineer sites on Recreation.gov are cheaper than state parks and you can usually get a site with electricity.)

I think of the trailer as operating either on batteries (12v) or on external power (110v) not on solar or on a generator. You use solar or a small generator to charge your battery, or a larger gennie if you want to bring shore power with you.

The absolute first thing you need to do is understand your electricity usage. The easiest way is a smart monitor. I have a Victron BMV-712 (https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Ener...ocphy=9027254&hvtargid=pla-391768428369&psc=1) but if I'd known about it I would have just gotten a smart shunt (https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Smar...ocphy=9027254&hvtargid=pla-905632901260&psc=1)

We normally use between 20 and 30 Ah a day. The lithium battery gives me three days of power, not connected to anything, more if I'm careful, less if its cold. When Texas had the blackout we moved into the trailer. With the temps below freezing I went though 50 Ah overnight. The furnace eats electricity!

At maximum efficiency a 100 watt solar panel will produce about 8 Ah of power each hour. (8 amps x 12 volts = 96 watts). Reality is much much less. My experience worked out to about 30 Ah a day average from the little panel. For estimating purposes, I use one fourth of the wattage number as Ah for the day. I.e. a 100 Watt panel will generate 25 Ah/day average or a 160 watt panel will produce 40 Ah/day. These are averages. Rainy days you get nothing. I use the a briefcase versus rooftop because I like to park the trailer in the shade and put the panels in the sun. I'll move the panels during the day only if I'm worried about maximizing charge.

A generator will give 20 - 30 Ah an hour, so an hour or two a day and you're full. Ignoring batteries, a generator is a slightly cheaper solution, but you end up dealing with fuel. Plus care and maintenance. There is some noise. It will bother anybody close to you far more than it should, but it will bother them. You are stuck at the camp when its running, and lastly, there are lots of neat places to go that either don't allow generators at all, or have limited hours.

But I wouldn't ignore batteries, the LiFePos (battleborns and the like) are nice, but expensive. I am considering a second battery. It should give me two days of extreme cold (about the same amount of time the propane will last) and almost a week of no sun. I am also considering mounting a 100 watt panel on the roof, just to keep the battery fully charged while we are traveling. Because the Lithium battery operates at a slightly higher voltage than the lead acid batteries in the truck, I don't charge while on the road.