Getting ready for coldest weather in our Solitude 310GK

[440scout]

[MENTION=6569]Nuffsaid[/MENTION] yes, I saw the reason you're not going to use the other heaters and it makes perfect sense. My plan is follow your post and read what you did and how you did it. Both our campers are around 5 years old and so maybe those old tank heaters have a life expectancy of around 5 years with average use? You can usually tell if one of those heaters quit working by clamping a dc amp meter around the battery positive on a cold enough day so that the heater t-stat is calling for heat then turning them on and off one at a time (but you already knew that). I still have to figure out why both gray tank heaters together pull around 5 amps, same as the black tank and fresh water tank. It's possible Grand Design used a small heater on each gray tank with total amperage of 5 or 6 amps. I just need to get under there and have a look.

 

[Nuffsaid]

[MENTION=6569]Nuffsaid[/MENTION] yes, I saw the reason you're not going to use the other heaters and it makes perfect sense. My plan is follow your post and read what you did and how you did it. Both our campers are around 5 years old and so maybe those old tank heaters have a life expectancy of around 5 years with average use? You can usually tell if one of those heaters quit working by clamping a dc amp meter around the battery positive on a cold enough day so that the heater t-stat is calling for heat then turning them on and off one at a time (but you already knew that). I still have to figure out why both gray tank heaters together pull around 5 amps, same as the black tank and fresh water tank. It's possible Grand Design used a small heater on each gray tank with total amperage of 5 or 6 amps. I just need to get under there and have a look.

I haven't really had any issues with the grey tanks, but I typically let the grey water run out. My main concern is keeping the fresh water from freezing up. When I look at the lack of workmanship in the installation of insulation in the fresh water tank area, I just shake my head. It would have literally taken a minute to make a slit in the reflective barrier and slip it over the drain connection, instead they folded over 3 square feet leaving the underside of the drain area and water line connection totally without insulation, then add that a foot forward the water feed line was under the insulation instead of on top of it. The spare tire winch has about a 6x6 area of reflective barrier cut out and folded out of the way, I will make a simply slit and reinstall it. One area of concern I see is at the very end of the trailer next to the rear wall, the coroplast attaches to a crossmember that is about 1/2 inch away from the rear wall, there is no insulation in that gap, so the easy fix is to take some spray foam and fill the gap. When it warms up today I am going to rig up something to hold the fiberglass matting in place. Maybe just some duct tape stretched north to south and taped to crossmembers to give support to the batting. I haven't found a good solution to the gaps in the inner frame rails because of all of stuff in the way including the square tube that connects the rack and pinion for the slide that rotates.

 

[Nuffsaid]

I just got done replacing and repairing all of the batt insulation above the coroplast. I spray foamed the crossmember to rear wall gap, this wasn't the easiest since it was only 34 degrees outside and the foam expanded, but not as well as if it was warmer out. Then I ran duct tape under the rear crossmembers up to the water tank crossmember and attached it at both ends, one end to the bumper and the other end I wrapped the bottom of the crossmember that butts up against the water tank. I think I put 5 of these duct tape cradles in place. Then I added a full length piece of R11 fiberglass to the rear most crossmember vertically next to the rear wall. Next I laced the OE fiberglass batting back in place. This process worked very well. At the end of each run of batting where the factory shorted the pieces I added about a foot of R11 to fill the void and wrapped the excess up the frame rail. I filled every gap I could find with extra fiberglass including an additional piece under the fresh water feed line from the tank and also the cavity next to the water line at the frame. I rolled out the reflective barrier and cut a notch to go around the tank drain and did the same with the fiberglass batting that was folded over under the tank. No I just need the heater and I should be done within an hour and the end result should be much improved.

 

[440scout]

[MENTION=6569]Nuffsaid[/MENTION] thanks for that detailed report. I will probably get to my "project" next week as long as its a little warmer. It got up to 56 (Denver) and sunny today but I'm still not well enough to tackle that job. But, in the meantime I'm gonna pick up several rolls of insulation, a couple cans of spray foam and probably some rolls of duct tape. Using glue to attach the insulation to the underside of the floor won't work because of the cold temps. Do you have a plan to add more support to the fresh water tank where its deforming on the cross member?I will try to post back here next week.

 

[Nuffsaid]

[MENTION=6569]Nuffsaid[/MENTION] thanks for that detailed report. I will probably get to my "project" next week as long as its a little warmer. It got up to 56 (Denver) and sunny today but I'm still not well enough to tackle that job. But, in the meantime I'm gonna pick up several rolls of insulation, a couple cans of spray foam and probably some rolls of duct tape. Using glue to attach the insulation to the underside of the floor won't work because of the cold temps. Do you have a plan to add more support to the fresh water tank where its deforming on the cross member?I will try to post back here next week.

I see you are in the Denver area, we purchased our Solitude from Windish RV in Longmont! The weather is supposed to take a turn for the worse after Thursday, so I hope my heater hurries up and gets here. It probably won't ship until tomorrow and I paid for 2nd day air, but that is no guarentee that it will show up in two days. I am happy with the way everything looks right now, I think it will be a major improvement and hopefully the rear of the trailer will stay a bit warmer. I think I have most of the air leaks plugged up and now that there will be insulation under everything it should be much better. At some point I might insulate the front storage area too, since the basement is exposed to the front wall that isn't insulated. Maybe just adding some rigid insulation to the storage side of the wall would be enough to help out. I took some photos today, but I am not sure if I can post them here now or not. I might try tomorrow.

 

[huntindog]

I took a different approach to insulaing the under belly.
I hate that fiberglass insulation. It will not stay in place, with gravity working against you, and IMO it really is a haz mat situation with all those particles in the air. So I got all suited up head to toe, with a full face respirator and removed all if it.
I then installed Polyisocronate ridgid insulation.1" = R6.5 I put in as much as would fit. At least two layers of 1" everywhere. 6 layers in some places.I was careful to leave a path for the heat duct to circulate heat. The inside of the frame rails got 2" of it. It was a LOT of work. All of the boards needed to be custom cut to fit. A creeper was my best friend. I the installed the coroplast in sections of around 6'. Now I can get into the under belly where ever I need to and I do not have to deal with that fiberglass any more.The results were worth it. The garage floor is nolonger cold, and propane use went down. This in the second coach I have done this to.

 

[Nuffsaid]

I took a different approach to insulaing the under belly.
I hate that fiberglass insulation. It will not stay in place, with gravity working against you, and IMO it really is a haz mat situation with all those particles in the air. So I got all suited up head to toe, with a full face respirator and removed all if it.
I then installed Polyisocronate ridgid insulation.1" = R6.5 I put in as much as would fit. At least two layers of 1" everywhere. 6 layers in some places.I was careful to leave a path for the heat duct to circulate heat. The inside of the frame rails got 2" of it. It was a LOT of work. All of the boards needed to be custom cut to fit. A creeper was my best friend. I the installed the coroplast in sections of around 6'. Now I can get into the under belly where ever I need to and I do not have to deal with that fiberglass any more.The results were worth it. The garage floor is nolonger cold, and propane use went down. This in the second coach I have done this to.

Good job! I debated doing something similar, but decided to give one try of doing the fiberglass correctly. I am very disappointed in the workmanship in the belly area. There were so many areas where the batting was 6-8 inches short. I am really looking forward to the improvement this makes.
When you used the rigid insulation, what did you do to insulate under the water tank?

 

[huntindog]

Good job! I debated doing something similar, but decided to give one try of doing the fiberglass correctly. I am very disappointed in the workmanship in the belly area. There were so many areas where the batting was 6-8 inches short. I am really looking forward to the improvement this makes.
When you used the rigid insulation, what did you do to insulate under the water tank?

My Momentum has two FW tanks totaling 158 gallons. The larger one was pretty much resting on the coroplast. which on my unit has the foil/bubble shield made into it. On that tank I added another heater and was able to fit one layer of 1/2 " polyisocronate between it and the tank. On the smaller tank there was room for 2" of it, so I left the factory heat pad in place, and did not add one. So far so good.
On my last TT when I did this I also installed heat tape and pipe insulation on all water lines. This Momentum is setup to circulate furnace heat thru out the under belly, so I skipped the heat tape on it. So long as it works well, I will leave it as is. If it freezes up on me, I will add the heat tape. That involves adding a lot of wiring to power it.

As for the factory work.... When they do it the frame is upside down, so gravity is helping them do it. That would be the best oportunity to get it right. Sadly they do not.
When you and I do it we are working upside down. Not a good situation. I urge everyone doing this to use the proper PPE.Getting that fiberglass in the eyes/lungs is a serious hazard.
I spent many years as the Safety coordinator for my employer when I was working... So I often bring up doing things in the safest manner.

 

[440scout]

When there's a 2 day break in the cold weather I'm going to drop the coroplast behind the rear axle and replace all the factory insulation with rock wool. It has approximately a 25% greater R value than fiberglass of same thickness and has a high ignition point, approximately 1400 degrees.
One other plus is if it gets wet, it doesn't get moldy or mildew, once dry it goes back to its original shape and is still very usable! But, it's really expensive! I estimate it will cost at least $500 just to reinsulate that rear area. Home Depot stocks it in their Colorado stores. Will post pics "when" the project is completed.

 

[huntindog]

When there's a 2 day break in the cold weather I'm going to drop the coroplast behind the rear axle and replace all the factory insulation with rock wool. It has approximately a 25% greater R value than fiberglass of same thickness and has a high ignition point, approximately 1400 degrees.
One other plus is if it gets wet, it doesn't get moldy or mildew, once dry it goes back to its original shape and is still very usable! But, it's really expensive! I estimate it will cost at least $500 just to reinsulate that rear area. Home Depot stocks it in their Colorado stores. Will post pics "when" the project is completed.

I gave the rock wool serious consideration. Even loaded it up on a cart at Home Depot. That is what changed my mind. It is HEAVY!
So I went back to what I have used before. Polyisocronate rigid boards. Light as a feather.In fact I had to be careful to keep a breeze from blowing it away when working with it. It cannot absorb water like the fiberglass and rock wool can. Is fireproof, and is not hazardous to work with like the other options. The downside is it takes a long time to install. I thought the price was reasonable, especially with its superior R value per inch... 1" = R 6.5.
The other options would take several inchs to equal that...And in an RV there is not a lot of inches to work with

 

[440scout]

@huntingdog Now that's interesting, I had no idea rock wool was actually heavy. Maybe thats why its called "rock" wool.
Is that polyiso.... insulation you used come in those pink almost purple sheets? I haven't bought any type of insulation yet, still gathering info and have at least a week before outside temps get above 50 here in the Denver area so I can start that re-insultation project.
In the meantime I'm gonna continue to do more research, thanks.

 

[huntindog]

@huntingdog Now that's interesting, I had no idea rock wool was actually heavy. Maybe thats why its called "rock" wool.
Is that polyiso.... insulation you used come in those pink almost purple sheets? I haven't bought any type of insulation yet, still gathering info and have at least a week before outside temps get above 50 here in the Denver area so I can start that re-insultation project.
In the meantime I'm gonna continue to do more research, thanks.

No it's not the pink stuff. It comes in 4x8 sheets with a dull foil on one side and a white paper on the other. the inside and edges are an off white. I have seen thicknesses of 1/2",1", and 2". I used mostly 1" and just used more layers where I could. I did use about 1/2 sheet of 1/2" under the large FW tank. Home Depot and Lowes both have it, different brands but it's the same stuff. Buy from which ever one has it cheaper. The stuff can bend some without cracking on longer pieces. I used that as a spring effect to wedge them into place. Some areas needed duct tape.Others self tapping metal screws with fender washers. I sectionalized the coroplast at the same time. It is now easy to get into any area that needs attention down the road.
Beware, it is a BIG Job. I generally keep my coaches at least ten years though, so for me the payoff is worth it.

 

[440scout]

@huntingdog Thats a lot of good information, thank you. I'm gonna try to get over to Home Depot this weekend (between snow storms) and check out that new to me product. I was concerned about the pink product because it can catch on fire fairly easily.