Guts vs Glam...R-value calculation, frame size, brake size, A/c

[Connor McGillicuddy]

I'm shopping the Reflection against other 'shorties' (that I can find)...Arctic Fox, Silverback, Alpine/Avalanche clones, Eagle Premier. I'm much more concerned about the guts than the 'goodies', or 'glam'...those can be changed (of course, being single, I NEVER do!).

I must say first that I'm impressed with the effort GD put into its website, relative to other mfgs. Still, as a prospective buyer, there can never be too much information available. Although I hate the idea of more Fed regulation, I look forward to the day when 'window sticker' type rules from the automotive industry are applied to the RV industry. The next step would be mandating product training for RV salespeople.....(like THAT will ever happen...ha!).

Now, to my questions:

1) R-values are SUCH a game among mfgs. Walls, roofs, & floor are all--within an inch--the same for every unit out there; and only so much insulation can fit in a space. Does anyone know what type (and how much) insulation GD puts in a particular place to come up with their advertised calculated values; i.e., foam, batten, and radiant tech., and in what combinations? Jayco is the only mfg. I know of who actually tells you how much of what is used in a particular spot, and in what combination.

2) Does anyone know the frame sizes of the Reflection 293, 303, & 337; i.e., 8" or 10", and whether they are I-beam, boxed tube, or a combination?

3) I realize these are not rated as 'trekkers', like RV Consumers rates Arctic Fox, but GD seems, nonetheless, to be allowing very little margin for error with 5080-lb axles on the 303/293. Anyone know if they are Dexter, Alcon, or Lippert?QUESTION ANSWERED...THANKS!

4) Anyone know the brake size? Are they the 'never-adjust' sort?

5) Is the bedroom slide a Schwintek worm, as with so many of these lighter weight 5'ers?UPDATE:QUESTION ANSWERED...THANKS!

6) Anyone know the cubic ft of the basement pass-through?

7) What brand is the refrigerator? In the pics & videos I've seen, it appears to be something besides Norcold or Dometic.QUESTION ANSWERED...THANKS!

8) Is the whisper-air system a Dometic, Coleman, or Advent? Also, a 2nd A/C could be unnecessary, but is the 293/303 at least wired & framed for it?QUESTION ANSWERED..THANKS!

9) Furrion made their name in the marine industry; Jensen is the (12-volt) RV standard. Anyone having issues with their Furrion TV and/or stereo unit?

10) Anyone had cans fall out of their pantry while traveling & break that glass-front door?

11) What size is the converter, and is there space for more than one battery?QUESTION ANSWERED...THANKS!

Any of these question that anyone might answer would be a big help. Thanks in advance!

 

[cgoodnight]

Go to the Grand Design home page, then
Reflection
Service
Service Video & Resources
Resources
Component List--Reflection

This will answer many of your questions.

I do not know of any manufacturer who has never-adjust brakes as standard. Hitchhiker has an option of disc brakes. Never-adjust brakes cost less than $60 per wheel and can be added after a trailer is purchased. Brakes are 12 inch, I believe.

Schwintek slides are on the Solitudes. Reflection main slides are Lippert rack and pinion. If a motor fails, you will have a crank which can manually move a slide in (or out). Much easier than some trailers where you have to be inside the trailer in a very tight space with a portable drill moving the slide in. No resistence from the motor when cranking in or out.

The battery is mounted in the front compartment--in a metal drop don space with a vented cover. There is adjoining space to place several more batteries--if you secure and vent them.

Our 337 is the fourth 5th wheel I have owned over the past 35 years. We love it -- especially the king bed which was our only option. We spent months looking before ordering it. Went to 6 dealers including 3 very large ones. Looked at just about all online. There were 2 companies on my do-not-buy list. This was based upon excessive complaints reported online, feedback from owners I know, and feedback from service centers not associated with a manufacturer. I do not believe it is appropriate for me to list them on a forum, but suggest you do diligent research.

What I would have liked from any manufacturer -- disc brakes, better tires, low profile air conditioner. Never-adjust brakes if no disc available.

My tires are Westlake, made in China. For a modest amount more GD could install Goodyear Marathon, still made in China but with many more dealers all over the country. I am considering installing Michelin XPS ribs, LT instead of the ST which are standard.

Narrow your choices down to 3, then go to the factories and tour their facilities and watch them being built. Read all the items in this forum if you cannot, and read about one person who watched their trailer being built and why they think GD trailers are the best out their in their price category and much better than most more expensive ones.

Good luck on your search and with whichever trailer you choose.

Robert
Amarillo


2014 Reflection 337 RLS (#238)
2013 F250, diesel crew cab, short bed, 4X4, 45 gal. aux. tank, B&W Patriot hitch

 

[el Rojo]

Welcome aboard Conner!

I believe Grand Design is closed this week but if you will check back Monday afternoon you will have a message from Grand Design with a name and contact number who can answer all your questions. You might also PM Bill Fenech with your phone number, if he see's this he'll probably call you this weekend.

Good luck with your search.

Red

 

[Connor McGillicuddy]

Thanks, Robert!

I, too, have been RV-ing for 35 years. Knowing HOW to buy one is not the issue.....but thanks for the heads up on the service video.....1 point to GD for putting that stuff on their website, but 1 demerit for putting it under 'Service'......silly me.....for thinking that OWNERS might be interested in a page tab called Service, but why would a BUYER need Service?...ha!

btw...1 good tip deserves 1 in return.....check out Jayco, Heartland, Keystone to name a few.....all have models with never adjust brakes as std equip.

 

[Connor McGillicuddy]

Thanks, Red!

That explains why nobody answers the phone.

There is no notification on their homepage about being closed this week, nor anything on the recording, when one calls them........I'm not sure if you have inside info, or have a cousin who works there....lol....but thanks nonetheless.

 

[el Rojo]

There was an earlier post about somebody wanting a factory tour today and Bill said they would be closed. Bill is nice, easy to talk to and one of the owners. I'm sure he'll be in touch. No he's not my uncle. LOL!

 

[cgoodnight]

Thanks Conner,

I had narrowed my search down to a Heartland trailer before I saw the Grand Design. Looked at a Solitude 369 and really liked it, but did not want one that long. Nor the 1-ton trucks I test drove. Finally decided (we thought) on the Reflection 303. Then they brought out the 337 and we ordered that.

Robert

 

[Bill Fenech]

Hi Connor

Sorry for the delay in responding. I am at the Fort Myers airport returning from vacation with my family. I don't look forward to the cold weather that I am returning to.

I would be more than happy to speak with you about our company and our products. You had some great questions and I hope they were answered to your satisfaction. It is great how the Forum members step up to help out and answer questions.

Please feel free to send me your contact information if you would like me to call you.

Regards,

Bill Fenech

 

[Glazier]

I didn't see if anyone answered or not, but the frame is 10" I Beam. The Bedroom slide is Schwintek, main slides are Lippert

 

[Connor McGillicuddy]

Thanks, Glazier.....but just to clarify, because I see you're pulling the 337, would that be a 10" I-beam across the entire Reflection line?

I was thinking that if they going to drop down to the 5080# axles on the 293/303 (and, given their lower GVWR), they're probably going to use an 8" I-beam.

 

[Glazier]

I really don't know what the other Reflections have, how far are you from a dealer?

 

[Connor McGillicuddy]

No problem, Glazier...as I said in my original post, I'm looking at the 'shorties'.

I'm far enough away that I'm trying to do as much homework as I can before the 4-hr drive.

By the way, since all the models seem to use the same Atwood water-heater, is it an auto-ignition gas/elec, or a manual pilot-lighter?

 

[Glazier]

Auto

 

[Glazier]

I should have mentioned my last Fifth Wheel was a Jayco, so this one has a lot to live up to. My Jayco was as close to perfect as it gets. If you are in to function as you mentioned, no so much eye candy, you will have a hard time beating a Jayco. I looked at Primetime, Columbus, Montana, and Cedar Creek. I would have bought another Jayco, but this floorplan is very spacious and the overall length is under 38'. I have never camped in this trailer, I hope it's quality is there when we start using it.

 

[Connor McGillicuddy]

yeah....Jayco impresses me

I'm looking at an Eagle Premier 321........not really a fair comparison for the Reflection, but it's under 35'

 

[Dave and Monica]

[quote author=Connor McGillicuddy link=topic=223.msg1390#msg1390 date=1388811895]
I'm looking at an Eagle Premier 321........not really a fair comparison for the Reflection, but it's under 35'
[/quote]

Hmm...their spec says it's 35'11". You're right though, it's not a fair comparison to the Reflection 337 RLS...the Reflection has a far nicer floorplan, features and storage room but then, I'm a little biased.

Dave

 

[Connor McGillicuddy]

My bad, Happy.....it's a '13 Eagle Premier, which is 35'5"

I set my limit at 35', and let that one sneak in, because I like Jayco...........and again, the 337 is not, at 36' plus, on my list......I'm looking at the shorties.....293/303

But since you mention the 337.....it still has a 6-gal water heater, correct?.....and you mentioned storage....do you know the cubic footage of the basement pass-thru?

 

[Dave and Monica]

[quote author=Connor McGillicuddy link=topic=223.msg1393#msg1393 date=1388850229]
But since you mention the 337.....it still has a 6-gal water heater, correct?.....and you mentioned storage....do you know the cubic footage of the basement pass-thru?
[/quote]

Though the 337's a bit longer. they're about the same dry weight.

Yes. it has a 6 gal Atwood WH but their recovery rate is higher than any size Suburban WH (17.7 vs 16.2 g/hr.) according to specs that I've found. It seems that Atwood only make 6 and 10 gal WH where Suburban make 4, 6, 10, 12 and 16 gal. WH's.
We've never had an issue with the capacity of a 6 gal WH and usually have only run the electric side, but that's us.

I don't have the storage volume of the basement pass thru...the Reflection isn't a drop frame design so that area probably isn't as high as the Premier, but looks wider...they're partitioned differently, pass thru vs front compartment. The basement wasn't the area I was thinking of...the kitchen for example would have at least twice the storage compared to the Premier.

Just my thoughts...

Dave

 

[Connor McGillicuddy]

I see.........thanks for the info!

As a single guy, not only does that allow me to not get to concerned about the 'glam'.....but it also allows me to make ANY aspect of the kitchen my last priority... 8).....I'm more concerned about being able to store things like a ladder, air compressor, tools, etc.

btw, one of the higher-end shorties..Alpine 3010, maybe, though it's 12-gal., if I recall, or maybe the 14 Premier line...I can't remember, advertises a 10-gal/20-gal per/hr recovery.........but I never put too much stock in stuff like that........sorta' like R-values.......or mpg estimates......ha!

thanks again

 

[Dave and Monica]

[quote author=Connor McGillicuddy link=topic=223.msg1396#msg1396 date=1388860880]
As a single guy, not only does that allow me to not get to concerned about the 'glam'.....but it also allows me to make ANY aspect of the kitchen my last priority... 8).....I'm more concerned about being able to store things like a ladder, air compressor, tools, etc.
[/quote]

Maybe this is more in line with what you're looking for! ;D

Dave