Help! Anyone have serious issues with cargo cap limits

[fez111]

First let me say I'm sorry to hear about the trouble you've had with tires. The E rated Westlake tires do not have a good reputation for the heavier Solitude trailers. Your experience with them is not unusual. Grand Design now uses G rated Westlake tires and they actually have a very good reputation so far.

As for tire pressures increasing while driving - that is normal. Tire manufactures set their tire inflation charts based on COLD tires. You inflate them to their recommended pressure when they are cold. So, if you have a G rated tire with a recommended cold tire inflation of 110psi, you should inflate to 110psi in the morning and preferably when the tires are out of the sun. As you drive, the tires will heat up and the pressure will increase. That is normal and you should not let air out of the tires during a trip to get back to 110psi!

Thanks for reading... The 2016 Solitude rims are rated 110 Max (as stamped on the inside). If I started at 110 Psi I would immediately be over the rim limit as soo as I leave the driveway. This works for us and so far in two trips to Florida and several vacation trips no blowouts...

 

[bertschb]

The bottom line is this: I can either set my tires to max cold pressure and blow a tire (because I've already done that on two different 5th wheels)

The tires that failed were Westlake E rated tires, correct? If so, they are not the same construction as their G rated tires and IMO were poorly matched by Grand Design to your Solitude 379FL which is a heavy trailer (for those tires). If you continue to drive with under inflated tires, even the G rated tires may eventually fail. I hope that doesn't happen but I strongly recommend following the manufacturers tire inflation charts.

 

[CoChris-MGRV]

Howdy Neighbor (literally). I do not deny anything you say about this. However, we have gone on trips with the tires set to max cold pressure and others with slightly lower pressure. It doesn't matter with our Solitude. The one time I meticulously set all tires to exactly 80 PSI (Westlake max cold pressure on the sidewall) using a precision pressure gage bought specifically for this purpose, we blew a tire after an hour of driving. We pull the Solitude at exactly 62 Mph. That's because that's the speed our F250 purrs nicely at 1800 RPM in overdrive all day long. I agree that tires change pressure as they travel, I'm pretty sure they are not meant to travel with pressures increased 20-30%. Mine surely do. The second consideration is that the rims on our Solitude are rated 100 PSI max
as stamped on the rim. Our new Carlisle 14-ply tires load range "G" are rated 110 Lbs max cold.

Because these tires are rated at a higher loading than the original Westlake tires, doing the math these new tires see about 3300 Lbs, or about 65% of max loading. The Westlake tires were at about 80% max load. The bottom line is this: I can either set my tires to max cold pressure and bolw a tire (because I've already done that on two different 5th wheels) or I can start low and use my monitoring system to keep them under max pressure of both the tires and the rims which has not yet blown a tire. My insurance company is tired of paying for repairs and I'm tired of going through this. According to General RV in Brownstown, Michigan, there are lots and lots of blowouts, way more than are listed here. Although what I am doing with my tires may seem silly, the peace of mind it brings it worth more than the tires...

The 80 PSI max tells me you had load range E tiers on a (very heavy) Solitude. The Wesstlake E tires have had a lot of blowouts even when they are under loaded and you where either at capacity or overload. So not surprised they blew. The factory has since (2017?) changed to load range G tires on all the Solitude because of this issue. The Westlake G tries are very different then the E rated tires and (unlike the E tires) have a fairly good track record.

Chris

 

[fez111]

The 80 PSI max tells me you had load range E tiers on a (very heavy) Solitude. The Wesstlake E tires have had a lot of blowouts even when they are under loaded and you where either at capacity or overload. So not surprised they blew. The factory has since (2017?) changed to load range G tires on all the Solitude because of this issue. The Westlake G tries are very different then the E rated tires and (unlike the E tires) have a fairly good track record.
Chris

Thanks for your input. Had I known about two years ago that another "G" tire was available I would have looked carefully at them. We had Carlisle tires on our 39 Foot travel trailer. After about 18 or 19 years we had to replace them (I know, I know). I bought another set of the same Carlisle's that were on the trailer when we traded it in for a 5th wheel about 7 years later. Yeah, we had it 25 years. We had two blow-outs on that smaller 5th wheel (It had "C" tires on it. I put Carlisle "E" tires on that one and never had another blow-out, but we only had that one for a couple more years before the Solitude fell in our laps in early 2017. I've been very happy with Carlisle's and they are not very expensive. In case it was missed, my new 14-ply Carlisle's are rated max load at 110 Lbs cold, but my rims are rated 110 Lbs...period. That's why I keep my tires under that pressure at all times.

 

[joebethbark]

Thanks Charlie, that's what we think too. Unfortunately as new 5r owners we just didn't consider the weight of it all. With so much space we were of the mindset, "if it fits it must be ok". Obviously we were quite wrong. Now, after dropping 1300lbs we are at 17,500 and have to upgrade our suspension even though our storage spaces are less than 50% full. This rig really needs a third axle and 20K frame like the toy-haulers as the rear kitchen creates a serious weight distribution issue for the rear storage specifically. We have really had to rethink our definition of Full Time RV life due to this limitation, perhaps we need to adopt the GD definition and call it Extended Stay lifestyle...

 

[Fsalmy]

I've been very happy with Carlisle's and they are not very expensive. In case it was missed, my new 14-ply Carlisle's are rated max load at 110 Lbs cold, but my rims are rated 110 Lbs...period. That's why I keep my tires under that pressure at all times.

Not trying to be argumentative, but this is counter to everything I have read and/or heard. It doesn't jive with manufacturer's tire inflation charts, either. However, sounds successful for you. Does your TPMS give tire temps, too? Curious as to what happens to temps as you bleed air to maintain pressure <110 psi. Heat buildup secondary to under-inflated tires would be a bigger concern for me than expected increases in pressure during driving.

From Goodyear's Website on RV Tires:

*It may be necessary to inflate your tires at a truck stop or truck service center in order to achieve adequate air pressure for your coach's needs
*Only permanent air seal metal valve caps should be used
*Be safe - if a tire has been run 20% underinflated, it must be dismounted and inspected by a trained professional. It should not be aired up without a fullinspection or without using a safety cage. Use a calibrated gauge. If your tire is rated for
higher inflation pressures, a special gauge will be required designed for larger tires.
* Maintain mated duals at equal inflation pressures
*Don't bleed air from warm tires to reduce pressure buildup
*Don't inflate tires to cold PSI rating beyond rim specifications
*Don't run one dual at low inflation pressure or flat

For every 10* increased in ambient temperature, tire pressure will increase ~1 psi. Some folks adjust cold pressure to account for the ambient temp difference. According to American Racing Wheels, the pressure rating stamped on the rim is for maximum cold pressure during mounting. Tire Rack says the same. The rims are designed to accommodate increases in pressure due to heat build up during driving.

For the OP, I wonder if getting individual tire and pin weights, both dry and loaded, on your 390RK will help you determine what is going on with not only your gross load, but load distribution. Maybe I missed it, but was it the same tire location that experienced the blow outs? Something seems off based on your posted weights before and after your purges. Maybe I missed this, too, but are the weight ratings from the sticker on your rig or was that from GD's website?

 

[JKellerJr]

Not trying to be argumentative, but this is counter to everything I have read and/or heard. It doesn't jive with manufacturer's tire inflation charts, either. However, sounds successful for you. Does your TPMS give tire temps, too? Curious as to what happens to temps as you bleed air to maintain pressure <110 psi. Heat buildup secondary to under-inflated tires would be a bigger concern for me than expected increases in pressure during driving.

From Goodyear's Website on RV Tires:

*It may be necessary to inflate your tires at a truck stop or truck service center in order to achieve adequate air pressure for your coach's needs
*Only permanent air seal metal valve caps should be used
*Be safe - if a tire has been run 20% underinflated, it must be dismounted and inspected by a trained professional. It should not be aired up without a fullinspection or without using a safety cage. Use a calibrated gauge. If your tire is rated for
higher inflation pressures, a special gauge will be required designed for larger tires.
* Maintain mated duals at equal inflation pressures
*Don't bleed air from warm tires to reduce pressure buildup
*Don't inflate tires to cold PSI rating beyond rim specifications
*Don't run one dual at low inflation pressure or flat

For every 10* increased in ambient temperature, tire pressure will increase ~1 psi. Some folks adjust cold pressure to account for the ambient temp difference. According to American Racing Wheels, the pressure rating stamped on the rim is for maximum cold pressure during mounting. Tire Rack says the same. The rims are designed to accommodate increases in pressure due to heat build up during driving.

This is exactly how I understand it also. The ratings on tires and wheels are always a "cold" rating.

The maximum capacity of tires is basically a function of how much air it can hold. A certain size tire will have a max weight rating regardless of manufacturer. They can be less but not higher. Its also why a tire has a higher rating when going from 80 to 110psi max, More air. I typically run my G rated Sailuns at 95 cold. that's still good for almost 4000 per tire. Not for inflation worries, more to soften the ride. It basically turns them into a load range F tire

Edit: I don't know why the attachment shows up black, if you click on it the inflation table will show up

 

[Ynot4me2]

This is going away from the OP subject. I'm new to RVing and still have lots to learn. So, if you have a TPMS and start with a pressure of 100psi when is it that you should start to worry and pull over if its normal that the pressure will increase while travelling?

 

[CoChris-MGRV]

This is going away from the OP subject. I'm new to RVing and still have lots to learn. So, if you have a TPMS and start with a pressure of 100psi when is it that you should start to worry and pull over if its normal that the pressure will increase while travelling?

I use the following; Approaching 20% over cold inflation pressure I start keeping a close eye on the pressure. At 20% over clod pressure, I would pull over or at least slow down. For our Solitude (load range G tires) the cold pressure is 110 PSI. On a dry summer day, I typically see 125~128 PSI (+16%) after 4~5 hours running on the interstate. I pull at a max of 65 MPH. On hot days in the South West I have seen 130 PSI (+18%) and keep a close eye on it. I have never seen over 132 PSI (+20%). I often see 2~3 PSI higher on the sunny side and an additional 1~2 PSI on the heavy (kitchen side) of the trailer. A prolonged cross wind will also add load (and temp/pressure) to the leeward set of tires. Lots of variable, so hard to say any exact numbers. Also, if you have and alignment issues or a dragging brake, that can add a lot of heat/pressure build. I keep an eye on all of the differentials (side-to-side, front axle vs rear axle, etc.). Any significant difference I stop and check. TPMS is a wonderful tool. After some towing you will get a feel for what is normal/right for your trailer.

Chris

 

[joebethbark]

Yes... Our unloaded weight is 2102-200 for washer dryer leaving us only 1902 CCC... Not nearly enough for the size of this rig. When we asked the GD rep at the RV show where we purchased the rig, about adding 8K axles he said no'no, we don't recommend that as the trailer is not designed to hold that extra weight... GD now offers that as an option when you order!? What does that tell you- THEY KNOW THE CCC ISN'T WHERE IT SHOULD BE FOR THE DESIGN OF THIS RIG!

 

[4youngs]

I've been concerned about the CCC of the newer Solitudes for quite some time. I can handle more CCC in my 2015 Reflection than most of these Solitudes. It's a shame to have all of the storage options, but it's impossible to use them.

 

[Skiddy]

I've been concerned about the CCC of the newer Solitudes for quite some time. I can handle more CCC in my 2015 Reflection than most of these Solitudes. It's a shame to have all of the storage options, but it's impossible to use them.

know very little about Solitudes. Is there anything else out there with space you can use? For giggles we toured a Luxe triple axle 5er that had some very respectable CCC limits. How much more is it than a Solitude?

 

[bertschb]

know very little about Solitudes. Is there anything else out there with space you can use? For giggles we toured a Luxe triple axle 5er that had some very respectable CCC limits. How much more is it than a Solitude?

Luxe is roughly double the price.

 

[Skiddy]

Luxe is roughly double the price.

Thanks, good to know. It would appear that you get what you pay for to a certain extent. Purchasing a 40 foot plus 5er and expecting it to carry thousands of pounds over its limit just because it has space, is simply not realistic in my opinion from the perspective of either the manufacturer or the consumer. what did GDRV expect owners to store, styrofoam blocks, or maybe inflatable flamingoes? I wonder if standards like CCC being 20-25% of GVWR should be in place? I was very fortunate with the senior sales rep I had three years ago. He actually showed me the math to indicate if I had even 1/2 of the capacity of fresh water on board, the unit was very close to GVWR with “typical” personal belongings. If we travelled with a full fresh water supply, our CCC is only about 60% of the declared CCC. (For my unit, CCC is about 16% of GVWR)

 

[joebethbark]

Wow that's heavy! My Solitude 375 RES is a very similar trailer and I've added the Onan generator and washer/dryer. Mine scaled at 12750 on the axles and 3860 on the pin the last time I weighed it. This was with all bedding, pots and pans, and glass plates and cups etc. This was also with two 40 pound LP bottles full and two batteries. I also have the pull out outside kitchen. That's 16610 pounds against a 16800 GVWR so I'm close as well. You must have some heavy stuff!

Sure didn't/don't think so. Once the washer/dryer were added our CCC dropped to 1902 pounds .... that isn't much at all. Hard to visualize what that kind of weight is ... but at this point we would need to empty the underbelly and either the kitchen or bedroom :0 !!! Just crazy.

 

[Redapple63]

Sure didn't/don't think so. Once the washer/dryer were added our CCC dropped to 1902 pounds .... that isn't much at all. Hard to visualize what that kind of weight is ... but at this point we would need to empty the underbelly and either the kitchen or bedroom :0 !!! Just crazy.

Literally a ton of stuff...lol

 

[joebethbark]

Tanks empty!

 

[joebethbark]

Kept it about 63!

 

[joebethbark]

know very little about Solitudes. Is there anything else out there with space you can use? For giggles we toured a Luxe triple axle 5er that had some very respectable CCC limits. How much more is it than a Solitude?

We love Luxe however the price of $175-$200k is significantly more than we'd care to spend. Our one ton could pull is as they are about 24,000 GVWR but doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room!! They make them right though!!!!

 

[Canald]

We took delivery of a 2022 Solitude 390RK in Oct 2021. We ordered the 7k axles with disk brakes. This setup came with Cooper 17.5" h rated tires. GD figured that the West lakes can't handle the weight. On my 2016 Refection, I ditched the West lakes and went to Goodyear Endurance tires. US made for me. Also recommend a tire monitoring system. Great peace of mind.