Helping a fellow camper TS Multiplus ii

[Steven@147]

I was helping a fellow camper TS why his electrical system wasn't working right. There was a planned power outage going to occur from 4am to 9am. He uses a CPAP machine and wanted to make sure it would still work through the power outage.
To test his system we turned off the CG shore power. The inverter part of the Multiplus ii does not seem to work, no AC outlets or appliances in the RV would work. 12V power was ok. Everything, appliances and outlets does work fine with shore power on.

Not knowing anything about the RV or how the RV is wired, or how the Multiplus iii works or how the solar is connected in, I was up against it. The owner really doesn't know how things work either, he was told and thought everything was automatic. He just ordered the RV with the stuff and assumed it all worked fine.

The RV is a New Horizons 40 ft 5er, 100 amp power. New Horizons installed everything. It has 4 Battleborn batts, Multiplus ii, solar, shunts, and a bunch of other stuff I don't know what it is.. Two big battery type power cutoff switches up front, one labeled Inverter, the other labeled Battery. Both were on.
He has a couple different apps on his phone to look at to see how things are working, but doesn't know what they are telling him.

I looked at the main RV distribution panel in the RV, and then the inverter subpanel right underneath the main panel to kind of get an idea of what should be powered by the inverter part of the Multiplus ii. It appears 2 40 amp breakers in the main panel feeds the inverter sub panel.
The inverter sub panel has 2 30 amp breakers then feeds a host of other breakers going to various stuff in the RV. At least thats what it appears like. Minimal labeling and no manuals on how it wired,

When shore power is restored to the RV, the power is checked, then the Multiplus ii cycles, the inverter light on the Multiplus blinks and goes off. The only lights "ON" on the Multiplus ii is the battery absorption charge light.

I read a little of the Multiplus ii manual and found the switch on the bottom that seems to control the units function. It has an "ON", "OFF" and "=". The switch was in the "=" position.
The manual says with the switch in the "=" position it is charge only mode. That don't sound right. So I turned off shore power, put the Multiplus ii switch in the "ON" position and nothing. The manual sort of said that is what to do. Well that didn't work.
No matter what I tried The Multiplus ii inverter did not supply AC power to the RV. It's like the inverter part is not working. I could not really help him anymore. I advised him to call Victron.

Believe me if this was my rig I would know everything there is to know about it. How it's wired, how the batteries are wired, how the distribution panels are wired and how everything was supposed to work, document everything, put blue dots on all the inverter supplied outlets, and I would test it regularly. I felt sorry for the guy, I just couldn't help him.

 

[el Rojo]

Does he have a display screen in the rig? It's either a 5" or 7" touch screen?

 

[Steven@147]

Does he have a display screen in the rig? It's either a 5" or 7" touch screen?

Not that I saw, anywhere near the distribution panels, and he didn't mention it. He only had the apps on his phone.

 

[el Rojo]

The touch screen is what I use. Sorry, wish I could be more help.

 

[Redapple63]

With the power disconnected and the multiples “On” you need to check that it is putting out voltage. On the bottom of the multiplus are the 120 volt input and output. With power on it acts as a pass through. With power off it pulls from the batteries.

Check that you have dc voltage going in from the batteries and ac voltage going out to the distribution panel. That’s the first step.

Bill

 

[Steven@147]

Thanks guys. It's going to hit 100+ again today. I did see in one of the Multiplus manuals the goes into, and goes out from, the bottom of the unit. I didn't use my meter on anything at that time, the temp was over 100 and sweat rolling off. I just told him He should call Victron or New Horizons.

I did see on the Multiplus app, he said it was the Multiplus app, with shore power off, everything shown on the app was at zero. No input, no output.,

 

[KamFlyer]

I would check all the connections on the bottom of the Multiplus. With shore power disconnected and the inverter battery master turned off, check that the battery connections are tight. Also check the AC in and AC out connections are correct and well seated in the connectors. Those connecters are kinda finicky to get the wires in properly. Once that is done and power is restored, check for battery voltage at the inverter terminals. Check for proper voltage at the AC in terminals. Check the inverter switch is ON and check the leds on the face of the inverter. Disconnect shore power and see what happens. Check the voltage at the AC out terminals.
Does everything work normally when on shore power?
Unfortunately the Victron app doesn't really help much with the inverter. You really need either a Cerbo GX and GX Touch display/touch screen or a laptop connected to the networking port to really see what it is doing.

 

[Redapple63]

Thanks guys. It's going to hit 100+ again today. I did see in one of the Multiplus manuals the goes into, and goes out from, the bottom of the unit. I didn't use my meter on anything at that time, the temp was over 100 and sweat rolling off. I just told him He should call Victron or New Horizons.

I did see on the Multiplus app, he said it was the Multiplus app, with shore power off, everything shown on the app was at zero. No input, no output.,

Ok, so you verified no power in or out. Now trace the batteries and look for any kind of switch that would prevent voltage from going into the inverter. There should be some pretty beefy wires going from the battery through a switch and fuse, maybe to a bus bar, maybe direct to the inverter.
The way I ran mine was battery to fuse, to switch, to bus bar. From the bus bar then to the inverter and to the coach 12v loads (2 separate posts on bus bar).

 

[Steven@147]

Ok guys I got it figured out for him. It does work !

Using my meter I verified what I was seeing, battery voltage was present at the Multiplus.
With shore power off, Multiplus bottom switch how it was set originally to = (charge only), no AC power in or out. Inverter wasn't doing anything.

Shore Power OFF
Stumbled on a write up saying the Multiplus switch on the bottom had to be set to ON.

Then got to looking at his Victron phone app, WIFI connected to the Multiplus dongle, you have to select the little icon on the right that says "Inverter Only". A second screen opens that has selections ON, OFF, Charge Only, and Inverter. Once you select Inverter and then OK, the inverter kicked on and started working. I didn't find a write up explaining the app or how to use it.

You must use the phone app to get the inverter to turn on and supply AC power. But you must also have the Multiplus switch on the bottom set to ON.
see attached pics for the Victron app

I tested all his plugins, refer, and everything that was 120VAC and running off the inverter battery power, except the AC units and maybe washer/dryer. I told him he should put blue stickers on the plugs that run off the inverter, he said some of them had blue dots originally but he took them off because he did not know what they were for.

Once you turn shore power back on, eventually the app display changes, shows "Passthru" and also shows the battery charging bulk, absorption or float.

Not ever having seen the Victron app before, I tried to explain what it was showing and how to read it . Then I had him open the battery shunt app on his phone and explained what it was showing and how to interpret it.

the guy is 84 years old, I don't know if he'll remember. But at least I got it figured out for him.

 

[KamFlyer]

Good on ya Steve. Didn't realize he had the dongle. Have never seen or used one but it is good that at least it gives some control over the Multiplus.

 

[SGT ROC]

Good job sticking to it Steve. I'll be that guy is relieved. Somewhat bad on the installer for not having written instructions for the system.

 

[Redapple63]

I second the great job. Didn’t realize the dongle was there. For me, it’s worth the extra couple hundred bucks to add the Cerbo, even if it’s not inside the rig. I am willing to bet the dongle is there just to remotely turn it on and off.

Bill

 

[Steven@147]

As Paul Harvey said, Here's the rest of the story. The guy told me a couple years ago when he bought the rig, New Horizons wasn't using Victron, was using some other brand of Inverter, which they could not get at the time of his build..
The guy said he wanted LifePro4 batteries, liked Battleborn and was talking to them, and they recommended Victron Multiplus.
So He bought the Battleborn batteries (4), bought the Victron Multiplus, dongle, and all the other stuff and had it all shipped to New Horizons and they installed everything. New Horizons had never worked with Victron stuff before so he was their guinea pig. Now he says New Horizons uses and installs Victron stuff.
From what I saw it was a pretty neat & tidy installation wiring wise, big fat cables, strain relief, insulated tubing, tie wraps and such. The only thing I saw I thought odd was they daisy chained the 4 batteries instead of running them all to + and - terminal blocks.

Seems to me that I would want to know how everything works, have a diagram of how they installed and wired everything, how it all plays together, and how the solar is connected/wired and where do the wire runs to the Multiplus, the 2 big cutoff switches how they are wired in the electrical system. Some kind of instructions on how to use the Victron phone app and the battery shunt and app. Some of the Victron manuals/instructions are pretty confusing and lots of it in foreign languages.
Well anyway I got it figured out for him, and gave him instructions on how to at least get the Inverter to turn on.
The problem as i see it, he has no idea how it all works, and doesn't understand some of the displayed data it's just magic !

 

[SGT ROC]

As Paul Harvey said, Here's the rest of the story. The guy told me a couple years ago when he bought the rig, New Horizons wasn't using Victron, was using some other brand of Inverter, which they could not get at the time of his build..
The guy said he wanted LifePro4 batteries, liked Battleborn and was talking to them, and they recommended Victron Multiplus.
So He bought the Battleborn batteries (4), bought the Victron Multiplus, dongle, and all the other stuff and had it all shipped to New Horizons and they installed everything. New Horizons had never worked with Victron stuff before so he was their guinea pig. Now he says New Horizons uses and installs Victron stuff.
From what I saw it was a pretty neat & tidy installation wiring wise, big fat cables, strain relief, insulated tubing, tie wraps and such. The only thing I saw I thought odd was they daisy chained the 4 batteries instead of running them all to + and - terminal blocks.

Seems to me that I would want to know how everything works, have a diagram of how they installed and wired everything, how it all plays together, and how the solar is connected/wired and where do the wire runs to the Multiplus, the 2 big cutoff switches how they are wired in the electrical system. Some kind of instructions on how to use the Victron phone app and the battery shunt and app. Some of the Victron manuals/instructions are pretty confusing and lots of it in foreign languages.
Well anyway I got it figured out for him, and gave him instructions on how to at least get the Inverter to turn on.
The problem as i see it, he has no idea how it all works, and doesn't understand some of the displayed data it's just magic !

Well, at 84 I hope I'm still camping, let alone all this new fangled stuff....