Hitch me up Baby! A hitching deliberation Saga - did I reach the right conclusion??!

[Bearii]

Hitch me up Baby! AUH vs Reese GB vs Pullrite vs BW??!

First off, sorry for the length of the post. I just notice that whenever some ask questions like these there seem to be all sorts of additional info people request to help the poor sap along. I tried to give you all the details upfront - but be warned, it's a bit long.

I thought I'd ask for the veterans here to double check my thinking on the hitch I'm planning to buy. Feel free to point out any flaws or improvements you can suggest. We have towed several TT's and owned a Tiffin Phaeton 4OIH motorhome when we were full-timers. Last year we bought a home to settle back down and now are ready to do some trips from just weekenders to leaving town and go to the mountains for 2-3 months in the summer when it's roasting in FL. We thought a small fifth wheel would be fun, it's just the two of us, and we wanted something that would be easy to get into the smaller parks that we missed when we had the big motorhome. We wanted to stay under 30' if possible (limit for some state parks).

Here are the details of the TV and RV:
Truck: 2019 RAM 3500 Mega Cab, 6' 4" bed, 6.7L I6 Cummins Diesel
Specs:
GVWR: 12,300
GCWR: 28,300
Max Tow: 19,860
Payload: 3,781
Curb Weight: 7,968
RGAWR: 7,000
Measurement from cab to gooseneck ball (center of potential hitch): 36.5"

5th Wheel: 2020 Reflection 150 Series 260RD (ordered, to be delivered in Feb)
Specs:
UVW: 7,225
GVWR: 9,495
Hitch: 1,325
Length: 29' 9"
Width: 96.25"
Pin box type: Turning Point 10k

Here's how my thinking evolved. First, I really wanted to go lightweight on the hitch if possible. I loved the idea of the Andersen Ultimate Hitch. I read and read about it, explored multiple forums and FB. Easy to remove, and it could give me another 9" of turning clearance. Except for a couple instances of failure, before they beefed up the hitch by 30%, I couldn't find anything not to love. I even had found a guy selling a used one that had only been used a couple of times for a good price. I was ready to pull the trigger.... then I called GD to ask about potential issues one user had with the pin box failing after using the AUH. They directed me to Lippert who stated in no uncertain terms that any additions/modifications to the king pin VOIDS the warranty on my Turning Point pin box and GD chassis. I asked specifically, the AUH kingpin adapter will void the warranty? The rep restated emphatically that yes, it would void the warranty. Hmmm, started researching other hitch options and called back the next day for another set of questions (see below), but before I started on those I asked the second rep the same questions about the AUH, again, the rep stressed it would VOID the warranty. Ok, ok, I got the message, not a risk I was willing to take - NO AUH. (bummer)

My next brilliant idea was how about the Reese Goosebox, sounds pretty awesome for the ride and it leaves the bed clean. I have a bed camera already, hitching should be pretty easy. I called Lippert back, asked my AUH questions a second time, got the same answers, then I asked, can I remove the Turning Point pin box and put on the Reesse Goosebox - NO WAY, different patterns on Turning Point, no other pin box can be used on that chassis.... bummer again! Side note, all the reps I spoke to at Lippert were super polite and very patient with all my newbie questions.

Ok, how about a slider hitch. I could use a Pullrite Superglide I guess, BUT, it's huge, it's heavy, takes up way too much room and it's friggin expensive. I know, I know, I'm dropping lots of green on the RV, what's another $2,500+ for the superglide. I checked B&W for the manual slider, better price, I'm ok with the manual feature. I'd do like what someone recommended on here, I'll just slide it back when I pull into a campground and slide it forward just before we leave the campground property and be real careful in other tight locations like gas stations, etc, to watch in case i need to slide it back. Double checked with B&W on what wedge I'd need for my Turning Point pin box - oops, sorry can't use wedges on the B&W slider.... bummer!

Just as I'm about to consider pulling the trigger on the Pullrite Superglide a light bulb goes off in back of the ole' noggin (I think it was shining the whole time but it was probably in a haze from that last batch of martinis). I said to myself, "self, why do I even need a slider, why can't you just use the Turning Point in the turning mode with a standard B&W Companion hitch made for the pucks in that fancy RAM you've got??" The pin box is supposed to pull back the turning point 22" inches. Another call to Lippert, hey would that work, sure they said, no problem, just get the right wedge for your hitch and we confirmed the B&W is fine with the Turning Point with the correct wedge. In addition, they confirmed that the Turning Point pin box DOES NOT offset the weight of the fifth wheel behind the axle BECAUSE all the weight is still on the king pin connected to the hitch. The turning point moves back 22", not the weight. Somewhere in the dark recesses of my brain my freshman year physics was starting to spark to life and I felt I could concur with that conclusion - finally no bummer! A quick online chat with B&W tech reps and they confirmed a wedge was fine for the puck system for the RAM on the Companion hitch. I went back a read the install manuals for the gooseneck and slider versions of the B&W hitches, NEITHER permits the use of a wedge - in other words you're not supposed to use a Turning Point (or Reese Sidewinder or Reese Revolution) with ANY of the B&W hitches other than the puck system hitches (note I only checked the RAM puck style manual, verify if you have a GM or Ford).

The Lippert rep had already directed me to the manual to Turning Point and there is a handy guide to determine if you'll have enough room to turn 90 degrees. I went out to the truck, did the measurements, assumed I'd set the B&W hitch inline with the axle. Then I called GD to confirm exact width on the 260RD. I plugged the numbers into the sheet, did the long division, drank a martini, compared the numbers through more haze, and viola - guess what, with a simple B&W Companion puck hitch and the Turning Point pin box I should be able to get darn close to 90 degree turns if I ever actually needed to do one. Oh, and that handy Turning Point manual, it listed the exact wedge needed for my potential B&W Companion hitch.

Whew, I know long story. I hope it will help save some others with the Turning Point some time. So fire away, am I missing something? Why not consider other standard hitches you may ask. You're right B&W is not the only game in town. It's kind of like a Ford, Chevy, Dodge truck discussion I guess. I just have always really liked the looks of B&W hitches when I've seen them at shows, couldn't find any real negatives mentioned on the forums, as a matter of fact people tend to rave about them. In addition, I just like the fact that it's American made by a small company that seems to really care about what they do. I did briefly consider the Hensley air bag and the Airsafe hitches but my truck already has air suspension adjustments. I'm hoping that will be enough to offset any disadvantage with the B&W over those much more expensive air bag hitches

I'm hoping to purchase the hitch in the new few days, go ahead and let me know what I might be missing or where my logic is flawed. TIA!!

 

[triplethreat]

The only thing that kind of jumped out at me on your truck specs was a couple of the numbers. If the truck's GVWR is 12,300 lbs, and your payload number on the door sticker is 3781 lbs, then your truck weight isn't 7968, it is approx. 8519 lbs.

 

[Bearii]

The only thing that kind of jumped out at me on your truck specs was a couple of the numbers. If the truck's GVWR is 12,300 lbs, and your payload number on the door sticker is 3781 lbs, then your truck weight isn't 7968, it is approx. 8519 lbs.

Good catch, the payload door sticker of course is the only "actual" number. I pulled the curb weight from the RAM specs online. I think they 7968 number must come from a model that has fewer features than the Limited even though that number was from the Limited's specs. Thanks.

 

[backtrack2015]

I think you ended up in a good place. The fixed B&W is a great hitch and separates into two pieces for easy removal/install. The B&W was always my favorite part of the Ford/B&W/28BH combo. I simply can't imagine an easier hitch to use.

 

[phonemannn]

That is what I use, 25K capacity, bullet proof, a little heavy to remove but solid...

 

[manofslip]

Hello,

I have been using the Turning point for a year now. I have the custom wedge for my 5th wheel hitch. I use a Husky 16k hitch with the Ford adapter plate they have. Good luck.

 

[Bearii]

Hello,

I have been using the Turning point for a year now. I have the custom wedge for my 5th wheel hitch. I use a Husky 16k hitch with the Ford adapter plate they have. Good luck.

Hey Dan,
Thanks for the info. Is your truck a short bed, if so how long? Do you get pretty close to 90 degree turning if needed?

 

[manofslip]

Hey Dan,
Thanks for the info. Is your truck a short bed, if so how long? Do you get pretty close to 90 degree turning if needed?

I have an F250 with the 6.75 foot bed. No problems turning. It is not that often you get close to 90° turns. Using this makes you feel safer. When you do get close to 90° is when you are usually rushed or the need is urgent. Having this helps give you peace of mind.

 

[triplethreat]

Good catch, the payload door sticker of course is the only "actual" number. I pulled the curb weight from the RAM specs online. I think they 7968 number must come from a model that has fewer features than the Limited even though that number was from the Limited's specs. Thanks.

You always need to be careful using online numbers when it comes to how much a truck weighs, or curb weight. You also can ignore any talk of payload numbers in regard to what the actual payload of a particular truck might have. I'm sure your seen manufacturers state the the current model year truck that they are talking can have up to xxxx lbs of payload; then the caveat of "When properly equipped". Lot's of folks jump on the bandwagon and say......my truck has xxxx lbs of payload. Well it might if it's "properly equipped". Properly equipped is actually saying, in essence, pretty much "unequipped". Manufacturers are trying to impress with how much their trucks are capable of carrying...or payload if you will. They aren't lying to you, they are just putting the facts in the footnotes and the small print, which many people don't bother to read. Yes, that truck can carry xxxx lbs of payload.........IF........it is a regular cab, 2WD, 8' bed, gas motor, and a "work truck" package, in other words basically no equipment on it, or the exact opposite of the King Ranch, Platinum, and whatever other models are the loaded to the gills models. Payload numbers on vehicles are the result of GVWR minus what the truck weighs on the day if came off of the end of the assembly line. At any time after that day, payload THEN BECOMES.....available payload. You buy the truck, as it was built and it has let's say 3500 lbs of payload, as per the sticker on the driver side door post. After purchase, you install a brand new shiny toolbox for the bed and load it up with all the stuff you need to have when you want to use the truck, for whatever purpose. Let's say the toolbox and all the stuff in it weighs 250 lbs. Your available payload for pin weight, passengers, firewood, etc is now 3250 lbs. Add the 200 lbs 5ver hitch in the bed of your new truck, along with the toolbox and tools, now you are down to 3050 lbs of available payload. The bottom line is the gospel on payload is the number that is on the sticker on the door post...AND that number decreases with every single item placed in or on the truck for it to carry.

 

[The Bone]

Most of what Xrated said is true.
However this 10,000 GVRW is also misleading. You will find that a 3/4 ton and 1 ton truck will have the exact payload capacity and yellow sticker in the door. This is mostly for registration purposes. If your truck has a higher GVRW than 10,000 pounds you will have to get commercial plates and those are more expensive than regular plates. Here in Ca I still had to get commercial plates. Some states are different. You also need to look at the sticker further and determine that your axles will carry more weight than than 3,200 pounds. My truck has 7,000 pound rear axles and 6,000 pound front axles. Thats 13,000 pounds but my truck only weighs 7,200 which leaves around 5,800 pounds of total payload.
Now the lawyers here will go nuts here LOL and they are everywhere to hear people talk.
Get in a accident and you will lose your house car and first born. That last one may not be that bad LOL
There are a lot of leeway when it comes to the numbers. Lots of safe guards are built into them The only number that is rock solid IMOP is the combined vehicle weight rating. That is what the truck and trailer weigh together. Don't exceed that number. That is because of the brakes on the truck. I also don't think that a truck by itself will stop 14,000 pounds regardless of how many tires the truck has. There is a reason they put brakes on trailers. Without them the truck would never stop.
I went through all this when I got my truck. Putting 500 pounds over that stupid yellow sticker is ok. If it wasn't than everyone should be driving a Kenworth. They say you can never have to much truck. You will however have trouble going to the grocery store in it.
I hope I cleared up the fog for you OP.

 

[frank4711]

You have plenty of truck for your 5ver .... I love my B&W Patriot 18K ... American Company ... all welded ... lots of options for adjustment ... simple hook-up handle is not spring loaded when pin goes in there is no doubt you are connected ... mine stays in so no worries about removal ...

 

[Bearii]

You always need to be careful using online numbers when it comes to how much a truck weighs, or curb weight. You also can ignore any talk of payload numbers in regard to what the actual payload of a particular truck might have.....

Xrated, you are spot on with your info. I was aware of those details when I purchased the truck, that's why I went to the 3500, I wanted to be sure I had lots of extra payload for all the extras we often forget that add up to payload. Technically I have lots of extra payload, but I wanted to be sure that if we decide we want our next 5er to be a little bigger I'd still have plenty of payload capacity. I've also noted that so many have mentioned that the pin weight typically is much closer to the 20% mark than the 14% of the GVWR of the 5er that the specs provided. I'm not sure if it was clear in my previous comments but I am using the yellow sticker payload number above, not the payload from the manufacturer specs for that model.

By the way, for anyone trying to determine which size truck to buy click here for a website has an excellent calculator that takes into account all the numbers you need to consider in your truck purchase. There is a lot of other great info there but their truck data is a bit out of date, you can get that from the manufacturers website. However, like Xrated said, use the actual yellow sticker from the truck you're considering to finalize those numbers. There is an app called RV Tow Check that works great if you're trying to determine this while at the dealer's lot. It's not quite as comprehensive as the website but it will definitely give you enough info to let you know if that truck can truly handle your RV. Don't forget your passengers, hitch weight, and all the other stuff we throw in our trucks in your payload number!

Most of what Xrated said is true.
However this 10,000 GVRW is also misleading. You will find that a 3/4 ton and 1 ton truck will have the exact payload capacity and yellow sticker in the door. This is mostly for registration purposes. If your truck has a higher GVRW than 10,000 pounds you will have to get commercial plates and those are more expensive than regular plates. Here in Ca I still had to get commercial plates. Some states are different. You also need to look at the sticker further and determine that your axles will carry more weight than than 3,200 pounds. My truck has 7,000 pound rear axles and 6,000 pound front axles. Thats 13,000 pounds but my truck only weighs 7,200 which leaves around 5,800 pounds of total payload..... Putting 500 pounds over that stupid yellow sticker is ok....

Hey Bone - thanks for weighing in, it's funny how these posts always turn into "is your truck big enough" discussions. Fortunately this beast is well equipped for our little 5er and even for ones quite a bit bigger. Having never towed a 5th wheel before I was interested primarily in help with the hitch choice and if my logic was sound in my conclusion. I provided all the numbers in case someone would see something I was missing in the mix.

However, I'm not sure I concur on your discussion of GVWR. My axles are rated similar to yours at 6,000 rear and 7,000 front. My tires are rated at 3,640. There are many factors for GVWR, while axles is a key one, frame strength, braking power, tires, body strength, etc. are all determining factors. I do agree that the GVWR has a significant safety factor built in but I for one would never want to tow anything that exceeded any of the ratings. Not just because of the potential for insurance claim denials or lawsuits, but because it wouldn't be safe for my family and those I share the road with. While I may never have an accident doing it, if I did, and hurt or killed someone, I couldn't live with that.

It is interesting that my RV dealer tried to convince me that my smaller F150 I had was just fine to tow the 260RD. Technically it was right on the edge of the numbers, that is as long as we didn't put anything in the truck, no grandkids along or tools, etc., and never added anything to the trailer that would increase pin weight. I said, no way, time for a new truck! (Besides, I only need the thinnest of excuses to start looking at new trucks - lol). Thanks again for chiming in, good luck in your journeys. Which hitch are you running?

 

[Bearii]

You have plenty of truck for your 5ver .... I love my B&W Patriot 18K ... American Company ... all welded ... lots of options for adjustment ... simple hook-up handle is not spring loaded when pin goes in there is no doubt you are connected ... mine stays in so no worries about removal ...

Frank, love that truck of yours! She must be a dually to have that much payload - very nice! Mine is white as well, matches the 5er very nicely, I might even add a little black pin striping as well to match the 150 Series Reflection black stripes. Your 5er is gorgeous too! Love those Solitudes, if we went full time again I'd definitely get a Solitude if we didn't go back to a motorhome.

How do you like your TST 507 TPMS? I had the EezTire TPMS on the motorhome, it worked great. I'm still considering if I want to go with EezTire again or try the TST. Did you consider other TPMS's, if so what led you to pick the TST?

Thanks for the feedback on the hitch, nice to hear it is working so well for so many.

 

[frank4711]

Frank, love that truck of yours! She must be a dually to have that much payload - very nice! Mine is white as well, matches the 5er very nicely, I might even add a little black pin striping as well to match the 150 Series Reflection black stripes. Your 5er is gorgeous too! Love those Solitudes, if we went full time again I'd definitely get a Solitude if we didn't go back to a motorhome.

How do you like your TST 507 TPMS? I had the EezTire TPMS on the motorhome, it worked great. I'm still considering if I want to go with EezTire again or try the TST. Did you consider other TPMS's, if so what led you to pick the TST?

Thanks for the feedback on the hitch, nice to hear it is working so well for so many.

Nope it is SRW and I love it ... TST is good and customer support is great when I set it up just call the 800 # and they talk you thru it in minutes ... only one I considered after asking around .... thanks later Frank

 

[triplethreat]

Most of what Xrated said is true.
However this 10,000 GVRW is also misleading. You will find that a 3/4 ton and 1 ton truck will have the exact payload capacity and yellow sticker in the door. This is mostly for registration purposes. If your truck has a higher GVRW than 10,000 pounds you will have to get commercial plates and those are more expensive than regular plates. Here in Ca I still had to get commercial plates. Some states are different. You also need to look at the sticker further and determine that your axles will carry more weight than than 3,200 pounds. My truck has 7,000 pound rear axles and 6,000 pound front axles. Thats 13,000 pounds but my truck only weighs 7,200 which leaves around 5,800 pounds of total payload.
Now the lawyers here will go nuts here LOL and they are everywhere to hear people talk.
Get in a accident and you will lose your house car and first born. That last one may not be that bad LOL
There are a lot of leeway when it comes to the numbers. Lots of safe guards are built into them The only number that is rock solid IMOP is the combined vehicle weight rating. That is what the truck and trailer weigh together. Don't exceed that number. That is because of the brakes on the truck. I also don't think that a truck by itself will stop 14,000 pounds regardless of how many tires the truck has. There is a reason they put brakes on trailers. Without them the truck would never stop.
I went through all this when I got my truck. Putting 500 pounds over that stupid yellow sticker is ok. If it wasn't than everyone should be driving a Kenworth. They say you can never have to much truck. You will however have trouble going to the grocery store in it.
I hope I cleared up the fog for you OP.

Truck payload capacities that are based on RAWR and FAWR have not been used for years and years and years. There is so much more to determining payload capacity than Axle weight ratings. You aren't the first to bring up that type of comment, but it simple isn't valid and is not the basis for determining payload. SAE Standard J2807_201602 is the latest of the revised standards.

Here is a good article about it........ https://fifthwheelst.com/SAE-J2807-Tow-Tests.html

 

[Bearii]

....Here is a good article about it........ https://fifthwheelst.com/SAE-J2807-Tow-Tests.html

Great article, I’d even recommend reading the referenced article too: http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/towing/1502-sae-j2807-tow-tests-the-standard

Fifth Wheel St is a great site with lots of good info on towing. I wish they still had the online calculators but the app is good and I didn’t mind paying the small fee. It was handy to have right at the dealers walking through the lot. Plus, why not reward the guys for their hard work!

Thanks Xrated!

 

[triplethreat]

Great article, I’d even recommend reading the referenced article too: http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/towing/1502-sae-j2807-tow-tests-the-standard

Fifth Wheel St is a great site with lots of good info on towing. I wish they still had the online calculators but the app is good and I didn’t mind paying the small fee. It was handy to have right at the dealers walking through the lot. Plus, why not reward the guys for their hard work!

Thanks Xrated!

Thank you Dave. I believe the "4 Step Weight Safety Plan" process is still free and is a great source of doing the "numbers" on a particular towing rig combination

 

[The Bone]

Bearii
As for the hitch I have the B&W 18,000 hitch non slider. I love that hitch. Nothing automatic about it. There is a handle that you have to close and pin so there is no chance to not be hooked up. Lots of adjustments in the hitch so you can clear the cab no matter what.

 

[trucknut1]

I have just gone through what you found out about the goosebox hitch (sigh), and now again still deciding what hitch to put on the 19 crew ram. The air bag system on your truck, does not act like an air designed hitch, the air hitch responds to your trailers suspension and truck suspension movements. I ran an air hitch for 9 years with lots of off road miles, that saved the trailer from annihilation on extreme wash board and bumpy roads. I would watch the rear view mirror on wash board roads, as the truck suspension would severely bounce up & down, and the trailer would move lightly.
I no longer travel off road (quad - bike), and going into retirement mode, as my body has highly suggested.
The air hitch I ran in the past was a Mountain Master Air hitch (they also make a non air hitch - rubber cushioning, with the fore & aft systems cheaper), but the air hitch is now wore out and in need of repair or replace. Anther I looked at was Trail Saver BD1, the supplier would set up the head assembly for the turning point wedge. Then there is the Blue Ox etc....
As you can tell, i will buy a hitch with some type of suspension, air or rubber cushioning!!! Have fun, let us know what you decide and how it works out.

 

[Bearii]

I have just gone through what you found out about the goosebox hitch (sigh), and now again still deciding what hitch to put on the 19 crew ram. The air bag system on your truck, does not act like an air designed hitch, the air hitch responds to your trailers suspension and truck suspension movements...

Thanks for the feedback. I suspect you're completely right. When I read the manual it seems it is only acting to being the truck back to level when you put a load on. I'll check out the air hitches again! [emoji6][emoji106]

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