is my GMC 3500HD diesel denali pkg SWR 4x4 enough to pull a 2016 GD Momentum 397TH?

[Jnscarr]

We just purchased a 2016 GD Momentum 397TH and have a 2020 GMC 3500HD Diesel Denali package SRW. Will this truck be enough to pull the camper fully loaded? we also have 2 Polaris Sportsman 570's to load in the garage, will this help take some of the weight off the 5th wheel hitch to help alleviate? New to pulling this heavy of a camper, we had a Wildwood by Fleetwood bumper pull camper prior.

 

[huntr70]

We just purchased a 2016 GD Momentum 397TH and have a 202 GMC 3500HD Diesel Denali package SRW. Will this truck be enough to pull the camper fully loaded? we also have 2 Polaris Sportsman 570's to load in the garage, will this help take some of the weight off the 5th wheel hitch to help alleviate? New to pulling this heavy of a camper, we had a Wildwood by Fleetwood bumper pull camper prior.

What is the cargo carrying capacity listed on the sticker inside the driver's door?

 

[Jnscarr]

29,700 is the GCWR
12,100 is the GVWR
3701 Max Payload

 

[JKellerJr]

29,700 is the GCWR

That won’t be the problem number. You’ll be under that but most likely over the payload number loaded for travel if that’s important to you.

I’m guessing you somewhere around 3800 payload and the 397 is about 3400 empty. That leave around 400lbs for people, pets, hitch, propane, batteries any cargo in the truck or trailer. A loaded garage will pull weight off the pin but not as much as you think.

Edit: saw your updated post, 300lbs at best completely empty. You’ll need to weigh it to see where you’re at.

 

[Second Chance]

In short, probably not. Read this thread from beginning to end:

https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/showthread.php/14865-How-To-Determine-Your-Truck-s-Trailer-Towing-Capability

With a 20,000 lb. GVWR, when loaded the 397TH could put up to 4,600 lbs. on the pin. You then have to figure in the weight of a hitch, passengers, and anything else you would put in the truck. That trailer is firmly in dual rear wheel territory.

Rob

 

[triplethreat]

We just purchased a 2016 GD Momentum 397TH and have a 2020 GMC 3500HD Diesel Denali package SRW. Will this truck be enough to pull the camper fully loaded? we also have 2 Polaris Sportsman 570's to load in the garage, will this help take some of the weight off the 5th wheel hitch to help alleviate? New to pulling this heavy of a camper, we had a Wildwood by Fleetwood bumper pull camper prior.

Sorry to tell you, but you won't even be close to staying within the payload numbers for the truck with a 397TH. They are not too much less than your truck's payload number when the trailer is new, and empty. There are plenty of folks out there with the 397TH and pin weights are many times in the 4300 to 4400 lbs when they are loaded up and ready to camp. It is a trailer that needs a Dually without question.

 

[poohbear]

NO, don't even think about it.. That's a really heavy 5er even empty, 15600 lbs for our 2021 and loaded will be 4000 or better pin.
I have this TH and wouldn't ever think about towing with a SRW. That said ,it's a great rv.
Also I don't know your location but check your DL rules for these heavy gvwr combo's . Several states (Tx for example ) require a class A or B non-cdl to legally tow combination gvwr over 26001 lbs. Not a big deal to get, just something that might need to be obtained

 

[BillandLisa]

29,700 is the GCWR
12,100 is the GVWR
3701 Max Payload

A common problem is people view the Max payload as a fixed weight. Based on the specs for the 397
(Hitch
3,375

UVW
15,600

GVWR
20,000) your trailer weight will be between the last 2 numbers and can only be determined by WEIGHING your trailer.

Your truck's "listed" payload is simply the GVWR minus the actual truck weight (sometimes the manufacturer includes a driver) when it rolled off the assembly line. EVERYTHING else you add to the truck (people, tools, hitch, bed liner, bed cover, etc. reduces the listed payload value.

You specifically asked if your truck could handle a Fully Loaded 397 which would weigh 20,000 lbs. 20-25% of that weight will be seen on the truck as the "hitch weight". that means you will be putting 4,000-5,000 lbs of weight on your truck. You will definatley exceed the GVWR (max value the TRUCK is rated for) since as it left the factory it was only 3,701lbs away from the GVWR.

You don't list what the RAWR is (Rear Axle) but you are probably over that even further than you are over the GVWR. Rough math puts the weight your rear axle will be carrying at
(12,100 - 3701 = 8,399lbs for the truck alone as it rolled off of the factory floor. split approx 40/60 between front and rear and your empty truck is at approx 5,040carried on the rear axle. Add in the 4,000 lb hitch weight and you are approx 9,040lbs on the rear axle (some will transfer to the front but not much) Add the rear axle's portion of the stuff added to the truck listed above and you are pretty close, if not over to 10,000lbs on the rear axle. Definitely dooley territory.
Bill

 

[triplethreat]

A common problem is people view the Max payload as a fixed weight. Based on the specs for the 397
(Hitch
3,375

UVW
15,600

GVWR
20,000) your trailer weight will be between the last 2 numbers and can only be determined by WEIGHING your trailer.

Your truck's "listed" payload is simply the GVWR minus the actual truck weight (sometimes the manufacturer includes a driver) when it rolled off the assembly line. EVERYTHING else you add to the truck (people, tools, hitch, bed liner, bed cover, etc. reduces the listed payload value.

You specifically asked if your truck could handle a Fully Loaded 397 which would weigh 20,000 lbs. 20-25% of that weight will be seen on the truck as the "hitch weight". that means you will be putting 4,000-5,000 lbs of weight on your truck. You will definatley exceed the GVWR (max value the TRUCK is rated for) since as it left the factory it was only 3,701lbs away from the GVWR.

You don't list what the RAWR is (Rear Axle) but you are probably over that even further than you are over the GVWR. Rough math puts the weight your rear axle will be carrying at
(12,100 - 3701 = 8,399lbs for the truck alone as it rolled off of the factory floor. split approx 40/60 between front and rear and your empty truck is Add in 4,000 lbs hitch weight is at approx 5,040. Add in the 4,000 lb hitch weight and you are approx 9,040lbs on the rear axle (some will transfer to the front but not much) Add the rear axle's portion of the stuff added to the truck listed above and you are pretty close, if not over to 10,000lbs on the rear axle. Definitely dooley territory.
Bill

When Chad and Tara, from "Changing Lanes RV" still had their 2017 397TH, their pin weight was almost always in the 4500-4600 lb range. Granted, they are full timers and have a lot of stuff that they carry, but they also had a Victory motorcycle that was 900+ lbs in the rear as well as all their computers, office equipment, etc

 

[Tom Traveler]

You don't list what the RAWR is (Rear Axle) but you are probably over that even further than you are over the GVWR. Rough math puts the weight your rear axle will be carrying at (12,100 - 3701 = 8,399lbs for the truck alone as it rolled off of the factory floor. split approx 40/60 between front and rear and your empty truck is at approx 5,040carried on the rear axle. Add in the 4,000 lb hitch weight and you are approx 9,040lbs on the rear axle (some will transfer to the front but not much) Add the rear axle's portion of the stuff added to the truck listed above and you are pretty close, if not over to 10,000lbs on the rear axle. Definitely dooley territory.
Bill

Our truck, Ram 3500 DRW, weighs 9,770, loaded for travel, with tools, passengers, an extra 15 gallon of fuel, and fifth wheel hitch, but without the RV. The weight distribution is 55/45. However, the front axle is is carrying the 55% and that is with DRW and a loaded bed. The rear axle only weights out at about 4,400 lbs. The OP's truck may be 40/60, but the 60 will be over the front axle, not the rear. His empty truck is probably closer to 3,500 over the rear axle. The OP is still well over payload, but I don't know about the rear axle limit.

For misc info, when we add the 3,600 lb pin, the front axle only gains 45 lbs.

 

[ardvark16]

The short answer here is “NO”

 

[Jnscarr]

The short answer here is “NO”

Thank you, that’s what I’m seeing, so now we’re on the hunt for a Dually!!

 

[ardvark16]

Thank you, that’s what I’m seeing, so now we’re on the hunt for a Dually!!

You won’t regret it. Every fifth wheel toy hauler will be a much more pleasurable towing experience with a dually anyway. Even the smaller ones. Really any fifth wheel over 36-37 feet will put you into a dually range for comfortable towing. You can’t make up for the stability in any way other than the dual wheels. This is why I have a 34 foot rv. I won’t drive a dually and won’t go over 35’.

 

[JKellerJr]

You won’t regret it. Every fifth wheel toy hauler will be a much more pleasurable towing experience with a dually anyway. Even the smaller ones. Really any fifth wheel over 36-37 feet will put you into a dually range for comfortable towing. You can’t make up for the stability in any way other than the dual wheels. This is why I have a 34 foot rv. I won’t drive a dually and won’t go over 35’.

Sorry, this is where you lose me. I've towed with both, including our current 375 on a SWR with upgraded/modified suspension and tires and current DWR. I notice zero difference in "stability".

JMO, YMMV

 

[ardvark16]

Sorry, this is where you lose me. I've towed with both, including our current 375 on a SWR with upgraded/modified suspension and tires and current DWR. I notice zero difference in "stability".

JMO, YMMV

I’ll keep this civil by stating that science isn’t debatable. When people ask for towing advice we should avoid anecdotal evidence that doesn’t move the conversation forward.

 

[Second Chance]

OK, everyone... reminder from a moderator: agree to disagree and keep things civil, please.

Rob

 

[JKellerJr]

I’ll keep this civil by stating that science isn’t debatable. When people ask for towing advice we should avoid anecdotal evidence that doesn’t move the conversation forward.

Looks like I missed a couple of responses that were a problem, I didn't see the deleted posts. I apologize if my post came across as confrontational, it truly wasn't meant too, but admittedly how something is written doesn't always come across how its meant to.

I've pulled for 30+ years. RV's along with construction equipment/trailers, etc. with both DRW & SRW. You stated your opinion, I stated mine. If there is scientific evidence you can point me to that shows how a dually is more stable pulling a 5th wheel especially in relation to the length of the rig, point me to it and I'll gladly look at it.

BTW, I am in no way stating that I believe the OP can or should use a SRW for the rig he has. I just don't agree that a DWR is more stable than a SRW for a rig that falls within specs or that nothing can be done to a SRW, or the rig, to compensate for things that make a dually "feel" more stable.


Lets have a discussion about it. I'm capable of having a civil conversation. We can move it to another thread if that works better.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Looks like I missed a couple of responses that were a problem, I didn't see the deleted posts. I apologize if my post came across as confrontational, it truly wasn't meant too, but admittedly how something is written doesn't always come across how its meant to.

I've pulled for 30+ years. RV's along with construction equipment/trailers, etc. with both DRW & SRW. You stated your opinion, I stated mine. If there is scientific evidence you can point me to that shows how a dually is more stable pulling a 5th wheel especially in relation to the length of the rig, point me to it and I'll gladly look at it.

BTW, I am in no way stating that I believe the OP can or should use a SRW for the rig he has. I just don't agree that a DWR is more stable than a SRW for a rig that falls within specs or that nothing can be done to a SRW, or the rig, to compensate for things that make a dually "feel" more stable.


Lets have a discussion about it. I'm capable of having a civil conversation. We can move it to another thread if that works better.

You state right up front that you don't believe it, so what is the point? You believe what you believe, don't want to hear anecdotal attestations, and have your mind made up. Seems to me a "discussion" would be a waste of time for all involve.

 

[triplethreat]

Looks like I missed a couple of responses that were a problem, I didn't see the deleted posts. I apologize if my post came across as confrontational, it truly wasn't meant too, but admittedly how something is written doesn't always come across how its meant to.

I've pulled for 30+ years. RV's along with construction equipment/trailers, etc. with both DRW & SRW. You stated your opinion, I stated mine. If there is scientific evidence you can point me to that shows how a dually is more stable pulling a 5th wheel especially in relation to the length of the rig, point me to it and I'll gladly look at it.

BTW, I am in no way stating that I believe the OP can or should use a SRW for the rig he has. I just don't agree that a DWR is more stable than a SRW for a rig that falls within specs or that nothing can be done to a SRW, or the rig, to compensate for things that make a dually "feel" more stable.


Lets have a discussion about it. I'm capable of having a civil conversation. We can move it to another thread if that works better.

First, I'm NOT an engineer, but it seems to me that it would be mostly obvious that a couple of things that affect the stability here would be the width or stance of the tow vehicle......width being the outermost contact points of the vehicle to the ground it's travelling on, and of course the weight and center of gravity. And the dually obviously has a wider stance than the SRW truck does.

 

[JKellerJr]

You state right up front that you don't believe it, so what is the point? You believe what you believe, don't want to hear anecdotal attestations, and have your mind made up. Seems to me a "discussion" would be a waste of time for all involve.

Your reading a whole lot into my response that I did not say. I clearly stated I would look at any scientific evidence that contradicts my opinion and would welcome a discussion on the subject. I'm not looking to prove anything, its an opinion. Mine carries no more weight than anyone else's. My opinion was stated as not moving the "conversation forward". Am I not allowed to have a differing opinion or discuss it? I'm not above admitting I am wrong if evidence proves otherwise.