Lead Acid to LI battery change

[HighClouds]

My 2023 GD 310GK-R came with installed solar system. But, the dealer stuck me with a lead acid battery (ugh). I want to change it out to a lithium ion and wonder if it’s as simple as pulling the LA and connecting the Li. The system seems connected throughout and is wired into the electrical system. Thoughts? Recommendations on a Li battery? Thanks

 

[Second Chance]

Your solar charge controller can likely be set for LiFePO4/lithium batteries. The convert-charger is another story. Unless your unit came with a lithium compatible converter-charger, the OEM unit will not charge a LiFePO4 better to full capacity (it will charge to about 80% if I'm remembering correctly). It won't hurt the lithium battery, you just won't get its full potential out of it. [MENTION=22656]SolarPoweredRV[/MENTION] can probably give you some advice on good lithium batteries to consider.

Rob

 

[HighClouds]

Thanks, Rob. Am pretty certain that the convert-charger is “automatic” between LA and Li. Will check the converter-charger. ��

 

[Second Chance]

Thanks, Rob. Am pretty certain that the convert-charger is “automatic” between LA and Li. Will check the converter-charger. ��

If your OEM converter-charger is a WFCO, they are notorious for the "automatic" sensing function not being reliable. My recommendation would be be something like a Progressive Dynamics.

Rob

PS: Battle Born recommends not using the WFCO lithium chargers, too, due to their charging steps and voltages.

 

[ajg617]

My 2023 GD 310GK-R came with installed solar system. But, the dealer stuck me with a lead acid battery (ugh). I want to change it out to a lithium ion and wonder if it’s as simple as pulling the LA and connecting the Li. The system seems connected throughout and is wired into the electrical system. Thoughts? Recommendations on a Li battery? Thanks

If your dealer is like mine, they probably did you a favor by not installing the LiFePO4s. See the picture below of the dealer install I was the beneficiary of - dealer needs a course on LiFePO4 101s.



PS, I put in a Progressive Dynamics 9160ALV Lithium only converter-charger and it has it's own firmware quirks. Had to purchase the charge wizard ($14) to manually force the controller into bulk charge mode. One would hope that they have corrected their firmware by now. I ordered the two 100Ah Battleborns when I got my manufacturing date Dec 2021. There are things I would definitely have done differently now that we've used it for two years - hindsight is wonderful.

 

[SolarPoweredRV]

My 2023 GD 310GK-R came with installed solar system. But, the dealer stuck me with a lead acid battery (ugh). I want to change it out to a lithium ion and wonder if it’s as simple as pulling the LA and connecting the Li. The system seems connected throughout and is wired into the electrical system. Thoughts? Recommendations on a Li battery? Thanks

What Rob said about your Converter is correct, however, I have heard that the new OEM Converters now come with switches for Lithium charging instead of the "Automatic" sensing. If your Converter has a switch, you should be fine using it, otherwise, I agree with Rob's recommendation about Progressive Dynamics.

Your other option is to not bother with replacing the OEM Converter and let your Solar system fully charge your Lithium battery. The way this would work is your OEM Converter would charge your battery to 60% - 80% and your Solar system would charge your battery up to 100%. Depending on your camping style and your energy storage needs, this option could serve you well for a few years.

As far as battery options:

I recommend you visit the thread "Affordable Solar..." pinned at the top of the "Solar and Generators" Forum on this website. In that thread, I recommend you read two of the links: first, "Cheap Batteries..." which discusses the newer value priced Lithium batteries. Second, "Cheap Batteries, Do You Have Them and Do You Like Them?", in this thread several people discuss their installation of these value priced batteries and how they like them (spoiler alert: they like them).

Additionally, I recommend you search the general Forum for: "Lithium Batteries, the Best Prices Yet" which I wrote a couple of days ago. In that post, I note that I found a 12v, 100ah, Lithium (LiFePo4) battery for the low price of $153 and several other brands for $173 (all with free shipping from Amazon).

When you are choosing a new Lithium battery(ies), I recommend you search YouTube for a teardown video of the battery brands you are considering purchasing to ensure that the battery meets your quality expectations.

Good luck and please let us know which batteries you choose and why.

 

[ajg617]

Also, depending upon where you live/store the RV, consider heated batteries. Battleborn tech told me I didn't need them - wrong for NH and where weather gets below 32F in the winter. I then had to buy the wrap around heat blankets from them at really high prices. They aren't elegant but they work but I lost about $500 on that decision.

 

[HighClouds]

Great info. Saved some angst most likely. Appreciate your helpful input. Thanks!!

 

[HighClouds]

What Rob said about your Converter is correct, however, I have heard that the new OEM Converters now come with switches for Lithium charging instead of the "Automatic" sensing. If your Converter has a switch, you should be fine using it, otherwise, I agree with Rob's recommendation about Progressive Dynamics.

Your other option is to not bother with replacing the OEM Converter and let your Solar system fully charge your Lithium battery. The way this would work is your OEM Converter would charge your battery to 60% - 80% and your Solar system would charge your battery up to 100%. Depending on your camping style and your energy storage needs, this option could serve you well for a few years.

As far as battery options:

I recommend you visit the thread "Affordable Solar..." pinned at the top of the "Solar and Generators" Forum on this website. In that thread, I recommend you read two of the links: first, "Cheap Batteries..." which discusses the newer value priced Lithium batteries. Second, "Cheap Batteries, Do You Have Them and Do You Like Them?", in this thread several people discuss their installation of these value priced batteries and how they like them (spoiler alert: they like them).

Additionally, I recommend you search the general Forum for: "Lithium Batteries, the Best Prices Yet" which I wrote a couple of days ago. In that post, I note that I found a 12v, 100ah, Lithium (LiFePo4) battery for the low price of $153 and several other brands for $173 (all with free shipping from Amazon).

When you are choosing a new Lithium battery(ies), I recommend you search YouTube for a teardown video of the battery brands you are considering purchasing to ensure that the battery meets your quality expectations.

Good luck and please let us know which batteries you choose and why.

Thanks for that info. Will review batteries, etc as you suggested.

Next up: 12v or 24v AND 100ah or 200ah
I have 3 a/c units, all soft start, a microwave, and a residential fridge/freezer. Prolly gonna need a lot.

We don’t boondock, but use Harvest Host, etc, for one night RONs when hauling. Really, really, really need the fridge to operate and the a/c would’ve been nice last summer (UGH).

IF we boondock, would like 3-5 days max. Don’t anticipate more than that.

R/

 

[triplethreat]

Thanks for that info. Will review batteries, etc as you suggested.

Next up: 12v or 24v AND 100ah or 200ah
I have 3 a/c units, all soft start, a microwave, and a residential fridge/freezer. Prolly gonna need a lot.

We don’t boondock, but use Harvest Host, etc, for one night RONs when hauling. Really, really, really need the fridge to operate and the a/c would’ve been nice last summer (UGH).

IF we boondock, would like 3-5 days max. Don’t anticipate more than that.

R/

I don't have answers to all of your questions, but I'll just throw this out there. Just to run ONE Air. Cond. unit for 1 hour of time would burn up almost 130 amp hours of a battery

 

[ajg617]

Thanks for that info. Will review batteries, etc as you suggested.

Next up: 12v or 24v AND 100ah or 200ah
I have 3 a/c units, all soft start, a microwave, and a residential fridge/freezer. Prolly gonna need a lot.

We don’t boondock, but use Harvest Host, etc, for one night RONs when hauling. Really, really, really need the fridge to operate and the a/c would’ve been nice last summer (UGH).

IF we boondock, would like 3-5 days max. Don’t anticipate more than that.

R/

I've run 4 days/nights straight at Harvest Host locations on the 2-100Ah batteries - first 3 days were in cloud but the panel still pulled in enough to put me in the 90% SOC range on day 3 but I ran the genset a bit day 1 (miserable weather) to get back up to 85%. That said, I wish I had 300Ah or had purchased the then new 270Ah batteries. The residential fridge doesn't draw that much - 6-7 Amps when the compressor is running but there is always an additional 3-4 Amp draw which never goes away. Doesn't take much - lights, TV, USBs, laptop charging will take me down to about 70-75% SOC overnight. Add the furnace as I had to this last trip to Elkhart and back and I was down to 45% each morning. Personally I would like to add a third battery but I'm not willing to pay Battleborn's prices. There weren't as many options for 200-270Ah let alone 100Ah batteries when I purchased mine.

I never run the microwave, coffee maker, DW's hair dryer, AC etc. without the generator running and sure needed the AC two years back at 106F in Murdo, SD for a night with no hookups.

 

[HighClouds]

I don't have answers to all of your questions, but I'll just throw this out there. Just to run ONE Air. Cond. unit for 1 hour of time would burn up almost 130 amp hours of a battery

Good to know!
Thanks

 

[HighClouds]

I've run 4 days/nights straight at Harvest Host locations on the 2-100Ah batteries - first 3 days were in cloud but the panel still pulled in enough to put me in the 90% SOC range on day 3 but I ran the genset a bit day 1 (miserable weather) to get back up to 85%. That said, I wish I had 300Ah or had purchased the then new 270Ah batteries. The residential fridge doesn't draw that much - 6-7 Amps when the compressor is running but there is always an additional 3-4 Amp draw which never goes away. Doesn't take much - lights, TV, USBs, laptop charging will take me down to about 70-75% SOC overnight. Add the furnace as I had to this last trip to Elkhart and back and I was down to 45% each morning. Personally I would like to add a third battery but I'm not willing to pay Battleborn's prices. There weren't as many options for 200-270Ah let alone 100Ah batteries when I purchased mine.

I never run the microwave, coffee maker, DW's hair dryer, AC etc. without the generator running and sure needed the AC two years back at 106F in Murdo, SD for a night with no hookups.

Great data points for me to consider. I really appreciate the input!
Thanks

 

[SolarPoweredRV]

Thanks for that info. Will review batteries, etc as you suggested.

Next up: 12v or 24v AND 100ah or 200ah
I have 3 a/c units, all soft start, a microwave, and a residential fridge/freezer. Prolly gonna need a lot.

We don’t boondock, but use Harvest Host, etc, for one night RONs when hauling. Really, really, really need the fridge to operate and the a/c would’ve been nice last summer (UGH).

IF we boondock, would like 3-5 days max. Don’t anticipate more than that.

R/

Boondocking without Air Conditioning is well within reach with your Solar system and a large enough battery bank.

When I say large battery bank, I mean one that is large enough to carry your Residential fridge and all of your other needs for the 3 to 4 days you mentioned, allowing for a modest amount of recharge from your OEM Solar system.

One system that is often overlooked when sizing your battery bank for boondocking is the furnace. You have a large rig and all RV furnaces are power pigs, especially ones designed for the larger RVs. So be certain to account for the furnace when sizing your battery bank.

With regard to the 12v or 24v question, it depends on if you eventually plan to run an Air Conditioner off of your battery bank. If the answer is yes, and you are going to have at least a 3,000 Watt Inverter, then I recommend going with a 24v battery bank. One note: you will need to ensure your existing Solar system operates at high enough voltage to be able to charge a 24v battery bank.

You also ask about 100ah vs 200ah batteries. You need to be careful when designing your system to ensure your batteries can supply the desired amperage. For example: most 100ah batteries have a 100 amp Battery Management System (BMS) which means that the battery can supply a 100 amp draw without the BMS shutting down. Often, the 200ah batteries have that same 100 amp limitation. So, if you have 4, 100ah batteries capable of supplying 100 amps to your load (and you have connected them to a Buss bar) you can supply a 3000 Watt Inverter with up to 400 amps of battery power. However, if you have 2, 200ah batteries that are limited to 100 amps each, you will not have enough power (only 200 amps) from your battery bank to keep your Inverter running during heavy loads (like running an Air Conditioner).

 

[ajg617]

You also ask about 100ah vs 200ah batteries. You need to be careful when designing your system to ensure your batteries can supply the desired amperage. For example: most 100ah batteries have a 100 amp Battery Management System (BMS) which means that the battery can supply a 100 amp draw without the BMS shutting down. Often, the 200ah batteries have that same 100 amp limitation. So, if you have 4, 100ah batteries capable of supplying 100 amps to your load (and you have connected them to a Buss bar) you can supply a 3000 Watt Inverter with up to 400 amps of battery power. However, if you have 2, 200ah batteries that are limited to 100 amps each, you will not have enough power power (only 200 amps) from your battery bank to keep your Inverter running during heavy loads (like running an Air Conditioner).

Thank you for that piece of information - something I had never thought about. I was debating about upgrading to two 200Ah batteries, but I think now just adding another 100Ah may be a better choice.

 

[Butcher]

You also ask about 100ah vs 200ah batteries. You need to be careful when designing your system to ensure your batteries can supply the desired amperage. For example: most 100ah batteries have a 100 amp Battery Management System (BMS) which means that the battery can supply a 100 amp draw without the BMS shutting down. Often, the 200ah batteries have that same 100 amp limitation.

This is so true which is why when you go down the Lithium rabbit hole, the more you know, the more questions you ask yourself. Once you get to the bottom of the hole, you will know a whole bunch and be glad you reached the bottom. With all that new found knowledge, you can make the right decision for you. 2 200AH batteries without the right BMS, will not be good if you want to run A/C. Finding room for 4 100AH batteries might be an issue too. Certainly a lot more cables to buy.

This was one of the reasons why I elected to go with 2 300ah batteries. I also elected to go with 200A BMS's. I changed the discharge setting to 175A in the beginning. I figured I would buy more batteries and now I have the settings down to 100A. I figured if I need more than 400A, there was a problem.

 

[Soundsailor]

You also ask about 100ah vs 200ah batteries. You need to be careful when designing your system to ensure your batteries can supply the desired amperage. For example: most 100ah batteries have a 100 amp Battery Management System (BMS) which means that the battery can supply a 100 amp draw without the BMS shutting down. Often, the 200ah batteries have that same 100 amp limitation. So, if you have 4, 100ah batteries capable of supplying 100 amps to your load (and you have connected them to a Buss bar) you can supply a 3000 Watt Inverter with up to 400 amps of battery power. However, if you have 2, 200ah batteries that are limited to 100 amps each, you will not have enough power (only 200 amps) from your battery bank to keep your Inverter running during heavy loads (like running an Air Conditioner).

Nod. We have 4 200 Ah batteries with 100 Amp BMSs. They're cabled together using a buss bar. They supply all the power my 3,000-watt inverter needs to fire up the AC.

 

[ajg617]

They're cabled together using a buss bar.

This is key and my next change. I hooked my two up in a simple parallel connection and a heavy draw will set my shunt low voltage alarm off because it always pulls high Amps from the first battery in sequence. The batteries equal out in seconds but the buss bars would solve that problem.