Leaks everywhere - Nautilus P1 and Plumbing System rebuild started

[Kevin2282]

During an early October week long camping trip to beautiful Bryce Canyon in Utah I encountered the famous Grand Design soft hose leaks. I had 12 PEX fittings that were leaking at the clamp connection to the 1/2" ID soft hose. Nine (9) were on the Nautilus P1 panel, one on the cold water side of the water heater and both fittings behind the shower valves. I spent a full day and a half chasing down leaks and building patch fittings out of Flair-it fittings. Needless to say I was less than happy. I have started the process to rebuild the Nautilus P1 panel the way that the manufacturer (B and B Molders) specified with PEX and replacing as much of the soft hose in the rest of the fifth wheel as possible. My progress on the P1 panel is shown below. I am waiting for the temperatures in Gilbert, AZ to drop a little more before I start removing the remaining soft hose.

View attachment Nautilus-P1-Installation.pdf

 

[minnow101]

As an owner of a Kantleak water panel(the predecessor to the Nautilus), been there and from time to time still doing it. Looking at tge rear of either of these panels makes it Abundantly clear neither system builders ever heard the acronym KISS.
Nice job by the way!

 

[FT4NOW]

Good start. I went a completely different direction and ditched the entire panel and started over. I had a valve break internally and replacing one is a mess, not to mention you have to order replacements through a dealer around $100 per valve. If you search the forum for 'good bye Nautilus' you can see what I did.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[geotex1]

Great stuff! Our unit has less of the vinyl, but I've been progressively replacing what there is of it. The "emergency" repair was replumbing the twin sinks in the bathroom from faucet all the way back to the wet bay. Nothing like unloading your basement at the campground for a day's worth of contortions and cursing!

 

[Aridon]

I ripped it all out and went pex, bypass the plastic crap panel and everything.

My last trip the plastic hot water heater check valve disintegrated and I had a nice surprise. Ripped out the water heater to change both the inlet and what was left of the outlet valve to brass.

 

[Kevin2282]

I ripped it all out and went pex, bypass the plastic crap panel and everything.

My last trip the plastic hot water heater check valve disintegrated and I had a nice surprise. Ripped out the water heater to change both the inlet and what was left of the outlet valve to brass.

I may end up going that route, but I wanted to try plumbing the P1 panel the correct way first before I completely start from scratch.

 

[Redapple63]

I have had mine a bit over a year now with no plumbing issues.

 

[powerscol]

I may end up going that route, but I wanted to try plumbing the P1 panel the correct way first before I completely start from scratch.

Kevin - there are some great technical threads over at the other GD site with a lot of detail on some successful panel re-dos. Might be worth a look.

PS site is free

 

[Kevin2282]

I have had mine a bit over a year now with no plumbing issues.

You might want to check all of your soft hose connections to the PEX fittings. I could easily twist almost all of mine with my bare hands. Very few were tight enough to hold the 50 psi of water pressure that I had on the trailer. All of the PEX pipe to PEX fittings were fine. It as all of the 1/2" ID soft hose connections that were leaking. The 17.5 PEX pinch clamps just can't compress enough to get tight seal. I will post more pictures when I get the replumb done.

 

[boyscout]

Good start. I went a completely different direction and ditched the entire panel and started over. I had a valve break internally and replacing one is a mess, not to mention you have to order replacements through a dealer around $100 per valve. If you search the forum for 'good bye Nautilus' you can see what I did.

I've just searched with the Advanced Search facility at upper right as well as using Google to search this site. Results are two posts telling people to look for "Goodbye Nautilus" but not any post describing / illustrating what you did.

I remember your post - any chance it can be found another way?

EDIT: Found it! It's good bye (two words) as you said and not goodbye as I thought.

https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/showthread.php/26944-Good-bye-Nautilus-system

 

[Neal_S]

I had one water leak for the hot water line at a plastic T connector. The supply side was pex but the 2 other sides were the reinforced vinyl hose. I was camping near my RV dealer and the trailer was on its initial shake down, the mobile RV Tech came out and spent about 1 hour “repairing” and I use the term “repairing” very loosely. He spent most of his time getting the crimp connector off and putting a worm gear clamp on which worked for just 2 camping trips. The same connector started leaking again so I went to lowes and purchased two 5/8” barbed to 1/2” MIP adaptors. My fix is holding so far. The 1/2” pex connectors they use are not intended for the reinforced vinyl hose they use. It is only a matter of time before they start leaking. I have a couple of inexpensive leak detectors I use to let me know when it is time to change another fitting. I will eventually convert everything to pex.

 

[Just Krusen]

I had one water leak for the hot water line at a plastic T connector. The supply side was pex but the 2 other sides were the reinforced vinyl hose. I was camping near my RV dealer and the trailer was on its initial shake down, the mobile RV Tech came out and spent about 1 hour “repairing” and I use the term “repairing” very loosely. He spent most of his time getting the crimp connector off and putting a worm gear clamp on which worked for just 2 camping trips. The same connector started leaking again so I went to lowes and purchased two 5/8” barbed to 1/2” MIP adaptors. My fix is holding so far. The 1/2” pex connectors they use are not intended for the reinforced vinyl hose they use. It is only a matter of time before they start leaking. I have a couple of inexpensive leak detectors I use to let me know when it is time to change another fitting. I will eventually convert everything to pex.

I used a pex to poly adapter to fix a leak. It fits the braided line much better. Later replaced as much of the braided line as possible.

 

[Boucon]

What is the other site called? Or can you post a link?

 

[Boucon]

Kevin - there are some great technical threads over at the other GD site with a lot of detail on some successful panel re-dos. Might be worth a look.

PS site is free

What is the name of the other site? Or can you post a link?

 

[powerscol]

What is the name of the other site? Or can you post a link?

Go to the official Grand Design web page. We are not allowed to post the link here. On that free site look for the technical help link. That will bring up the web page that GD actually participates in. Lots of information there.
Hope this helps.

 

[RV Sailor]

I was amazed to see the soft vinyl for water transport in the RV pressurized systems

On a sailboat ( I have a 35 ft) you can’t afford to have a 110 gallon tank empty into the bridge so they are all designed with PEX type tubing and easy WHALE FITTINGS. Even an amateur can install.

https://www.boatownerswarehouse.com/product_p/whalewatersystem.htm

 

[Kevin2282]

I finished the plumbing upgrade to our 28BH. Every PEX to flex hose connection has been changed or eliminated and I eliminated as much of the flex hose as I could. Almost every place where a flex line was connected to PEX fittings leaked so it has all been replaced.

In the areas where it made sense to leave the flex hose, I came up with an adapter system to transition from flex to PEX. I used a 1/2" PEX x 1/2" PB Polybutylene Adapter and two 18.5mm Oetiker cinch clamps. Assemble the adapter as shown in the photo and you will have a completely watertight connection. I have tested it to 75 psi of water pressure. The 18.5mm Oetiker cinch clamps are available from eBay in bags of 50 or 100.

On the hot side water feed from the water heater, I installed a 80 psi pressure relief valve. It is amazing how much of a pressure spike occurs when the water heater kicks on. It bleeds excess pressure out through the same belly opening as the low point drains.
I put a pressure gauge on the cold-water side to show the pressure inside the FW.

I also replaced the black tank flush air gap with a Zurn double check valve. There was no way to service or replace the air gap without cutting a hole in a wall. I use a garden hose in-line check valve at the Nautilus panel connection so with three check valves in the black tank flush system there is as close to 0% chance of back feeding water into the park system.

I put a in-line PEX valve behind the toilet to shut it off if the water valve on the toilet leaks. That type of leak will slowly fill the toilet bowl until it overflows and floods your bathroom. I have seen it happen and it is not fun.

I have tested it to 75 psi of water pressure for several hours, so I am happy.

 

[RustyCas]

Kevin, are you using the crimp rings instead of the pinch clamps? I have used the crimp rings on other projects but find it hard to crimp them in a tight space. Or do you have a “ratchet” crimper?

Thanks for the heads-up in the PB adapter. Can you use the same tool to pinch the 18.5 pinch clamps that you use on the 1/2” Pex clamps?

 

[Kevin2282]

Kevin, are you using the crimp rings instead of the pinch clamps? I have used the crimp rings on other projects but find it hard to crimp them in a tight space. Or do you have a “ratchet” crimper?

Thanks for the heads-up in the PB adapter. Can you use the same tool to pinch the 18.5 pinch clamps that you use on the 1/2” Pex clamps?

The same pinch tool works on the 18.5mm rings. No special tool is required. I used a combination of copper compression rings and pinch clamps. On everything that I could pre-assemble or easily get to I used the copper compression rings. I like them better than the pinch rings. I used a wide variety of tools on pinch clamps in the hard to reach areas. Before this plumbing exercise I knew very little about PEX and the tools. Now I have a full set of tools and supplies to tackle any leak. The Amazon links to the tools that I used are listed below:

Ring Crimp Tools (the first two were used 90% of the time):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019DPYQZM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018VNUCSC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071RDGCRP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01I3H6UMS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01I3H6UIC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RD7ZVBB?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

Ring Removal Tools:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MHCDRHC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-...sprefix=channellock+end,industrial,198&sr=8-2

PEX hot air gun. When you need to remove a PEX fitting from a PEX tube a little heat works amazing. I used this to heat the PEX tube for about 5 to 10 seconds and the fitting just slides out so it can easily be reused.
https://www.amazon.com/ZeopoCase-Po...&keywords=mini+heat+gun&qid=1622731232&sr=8-5

PEX PB Adapter
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083579DWQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Mini PEX valves - Used one behind the toilet as a shut off valve.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08DT8NRWN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Pressure relief valve and drop ear fitting
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MIJ16TK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CC1854...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Dual Check valve for the Black Tank Flush
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IPU9OHW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[RustyCas]

Wow! Thanks for all the info. Way beyond what I expected but RVers really are the best people.