Level?

[kb0zke]

For the past two weeks or so whenever I return to the trailer from the ranch house (club house) it always looks like the street side is low. One day I decided to measure it. Sure enough, there is about a 1.5" difference from the concrete to the trailer. What's interesting is that a bubble level on the kitchen island shows we are perfectly level. If the slab was tilted exactly the right amount, that would make sense.

What bothers me, though, is that if we were on a perfectly level slab the street side would be 1.5" lower than the curb side. That shouldn't be, should it? Yes, that side is heavier because it has the refrigerator slide and the bedroom slide on it and they are both extended. With the slides in, would that make a difference? I'm concerned that I may have a suspension issue. If so, I need to get it fixed ASAP.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Measure from the axle to the frame on both sides. See if there's a difference. Or just eyeball the springs, and measure the distance from the spring mount to the frame.

 

[kb0zke]

Finally took some time to deal with this. Now I'm even more confused than before. I measured from perch to frame at each tire position. The street side measurements are approximately 1/4" less than the curbside measurements. Then I measured from the bottom of the axle to the ground. Again, the street side measurement was less than the curbside, this time about 1/2". My 1950's math says that the street side is about 3/4" closer to the ground than the curbside. The tape measure says that the street side is about 1 1/2" closer to the ground than the curbside. The kitchen island is perfectly level.

Oh yes, before I measured I adjusted air pressure on all four tires to exactly 80 pounds, measured with the same gauge.

Now, all three slides are out. On our trailer the street side has the heaviest slide (kitchen slide) and the lightest (bedroom). Does that make any difference? We're parked on a concrete pad that seems fairly level, but I suppose that maybe it isn't as level as it seems.

Thoughts?

 

[Hoopy Frood]

My initial reaction to hearing the axle is lower on one side than the other, is the axle spindle is bent. Just offhand I can't see any other way the distance from the bottom of the axle to the ground can be different form one side to the other. Or the wheel bearings are shot, allowing the axle to sit lower. Or am I missing something here?

 

[triplethreat]

My initial reaction to hearing the axle is lower on one side than the other, is the axle spindle is bent. Just offhand I can't see any other way the distance from the bottom of the axle to the ground can be different form one side to the other. Or the wheel bearings are shot, allowing the axle to sit lower. Or am I missing something here?

There is another possibility, but more than likely, not a very high percentage of probability. Could there be two different size tires on one side vs. the other side? Like I said.....possible, but not probable

 

[Hoopy Frood]

There is another possibility, but more than likely, not a very high percentage of probability. Could there be two different size tires on one side vs. the other side? Like I said.....possible, but not probable

Even different brands could lead to different physical sizes, regardless of posted specs. Good catch.

 

[kb0zke]

Hmmm, supposed to be Goodyear Endurance tires all the way around. I think I'll have to go take a look and see what I can see.

 

[Rabbit]

My two cents. I had a trailer with only one slide. When that slide was extended, that side of the trailer was always lower, unless I put extra leveling block under that side. The weight of the slide hanging out the side levers that side lower.

 

[kb0zke]

What's strange is that we're level inside on the kitchen island. The coffee bar shows that the curb side is a bit high, which matches with the outside measurements. Someone suggested I put a level on the frame, but that only tells me front-to-back level, not side-to-side.

Our resident mechanic here at the park died last month, so we're still trying to figure out who is next in line for that title. He was only 93 and out working two days before he died. Very much missed.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

What's strange is that we're level inside on the kitchen island. The coffee bar shows that the curb side is a bit high, which matches with the outside measurements. Someone suggested I put a level on the frame, but that only tells me front-to-back level, not side-to-side.

Our resident mechanic here at the park died last month, so we're still trying to figure out who is next in line for that title. He was only 93 and out working two days before he died. Very much missed.

My experience is that the level varies from measuring point to measuring point. I usually just pick a spot where it matters the most and go with that, usually the cooking surface for us. It never seems to vary much, but it does vary some.

 

[WhittleBurner]

For the past two weeks or so whenever I return to the trailer from the ranch house (club house) it always looks like the street side is low. One day I decided to measure it. Sure enough, there is about a 1.5" difference from the concrete to the trailer. What's interesting is that a bubble level on the kitchen island shows we are perfectly level. If the slab was tilted exactly the right amount, that would make sense.

What bothers me, though, is that if we were on a perfectly level slab the street side would be 1.5" lower than the curb side. That shouldn't be, should it? Yes, that side is heavier because it has the refrigerator slide and the bedroom slide on it and they are both extended. With the slides in, would that make a difference? I'm concerned that I may have a suspension issue. If so, I need to get it fixed ASAP.

What condition are your springs in? It's likely been off slightly since day one and as the springs go bad the lean gets worse.

 

[kb0zke]

I wondered about them, too. That thread sounds similar to what I'm looking at.

Looks like this might turn into one of those growing projects. Since I have to take the axles loose in order to replace the springs, I may as well upgrade the axles while I'm at it. While I'm doing that, I may as well switch to the disk brakes. I have the feeling that, by the time I'm all done, about all that will be left of the trailer that Grand Design built will be the shell. Oh well, I'm spending the kids' inheritance.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

I certainly wouldn't make any drastic changes until you know what your actual trailer weight is on the axles. After all, you're talking major bucks.

 

[kb0zke]

I know. We have a mobile mechanic that is here at least once a week, so the next time I see him I'll ask him to take a look and give me a guess. We'll be here at The Ranch until at least the end of April, so no immediate rush, but no time to dawdle, either. If I have something broken or about to break I'd rather fix it before we start down the road.

I also don't like doing a job more than once if I don't have to. I'm not a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination, but I've twisted a few wrenches over the years. I'm sure that some things have changed since the early 1960's, but I'm guessing that if I have a broken hub I'll need to replace the entire axle.

I think a few heavy-duty jackstands may be in my near future.

 

[kb0zke]

When the wind slows down some and the temperature comes up some I'll crawl underneath and look at the springs. As I recall, both sides are pretty similar. From what I see on the other thread, the springs ought to have an arch to them. If they appear flat then it is time to replace them. Is that correct?

Assuming that a spring replacement in in the near future, what is the thinking for the best springs and source for them? I have the part number for the original ones, but nothing like that comes up on the Dexter site. I understand that going with too much spring is as bad as not enough spring. The trailer has a GVWR of 11,295 pounds, so I'm thinking that each pair of springs ought to be about 5500-6000 pounds. Does that sound right?

What else ought I check/replace while I'm at it? I have the Mor-Ryde CRE3000 and heavy-duty wet bolts already, as well as the X-Factors

 

[kb0zke]

Just had a mechanic here to look at our trailer. He says that the springs and axles are in good shape. The concrete pad is mostly level, but there are a couple of dips that aren't obvious unless you put a straight edge on them. He thinks that we're in good shape, and maybe could add an inch or so under the tires to make it look more level. Of course, that will change the level of the kitchen counter, which is what we've been using for a level point.

At this point I'm not going to do anything but grease the bearings and zerks.

 

[315RLTSinPA]

At some point you will be replacing the springs. I would suggest you go to heavier springs. The factory springs are only 2600lbs. I broke 2 springs last year, so I am now replacing them with 3500lb springs. Also, the axles are only 5200lbs. Too light for this trailer. 4 years ago I had a problem with bent axles, and after talking to a trailer suspension shop, I replaced them with 7000lb axles. I'm not an engineer but I've always believed the suspension should be rated for the full GVWR of the trailer.

 

[classicrockguy]

The street (kitchen side) of this trailer is considerably heavier than the curb side “as built” from the factory. Add to that food in the pantry and refrigerator, and storage under the bed, and the springs on that side are way overloaded even when the overall trailer weight is under 11,300# gvw. This uneven weight distribution is easily in excess of 500#.

This is a terrible design from GD. It actually limits the gvw of the trailer well under the 11,300# total since there is no way to distribute the weight more evenly. The axles and suspension should be at least 2 x 6,000# vs 2 x 5,200#. Probably even higher. The sad part is, building it that way is peanuts vs retrofitting later.

Mine has under 5,000 miles and already replaced 2 tires and an axle assembly. Just ridiculous.

 

[315RLTSinPA]

The street (kitchen side) of this trailer is considerably heavier than the curb side “as built” from the factory. Add to that food in the pantry and refrigerator, and storage under the bed, and the springs on that side are way overloaded even when the overall trailer weight is under 11,300# gvw. This uneven weight distribution is easily in excess of 500#.

This is a terrible design from GD. It actually limits the gvw of the trailer well under the 11,300# total since there is no way to distribute the weight more evenly. The axles and suspension should be at least 2 x 6,000# vs 2 x 5,200#. Probably even higher. The sad part is, building it that way is peanuts vs retrofitting later.

Mine has under 5,000 miles and already replaced 2 tires and an axle assembly. Just ridiculous.

I agree. When I had the problem with the axel, it was still under warranty. I didn't want them replaced with the same 5200lb axels, so I did all the repairs myself. I went with 7000lb axel, wet bolts, morryde equalizers, disc brakes, and new springs. Our trailer came with 15" wheels, so I even changed them to 16" for more capacity. For the springs, I didn't want to go to heavy so I only went with 2900lb springs. Turns out they aren't heavy enough for the kitchen side. So now I'm replacing them with 3500lb springs.

 

[classicrockguy]

I agree. When I had the problem with the axel, it was still under warranty. I didn't want them replaced with the same 5200lb axels, so I did all the repairs myself. I went with 7000lb axel, wet bolts, morryde equalizers, disc brakes, and new springs. Our trailer came with 15" wheels, so I even changed them to 16" for more capacity. For the springs, I didn't want to go to heavy so I only went with 2900lb springs. Turns out they aren't heavy enough for the kitchen side. So now I'm replacing them with 3500lb springs.

Did you do anything to beef up the spring hangers and/or attachments? I’ve thought about doing this type of upgrade, but I worry about just transferring the problem into those components, or perhaps even into the frame and/or trailer itself (frame flex). The tongue on my frame is stamped 14,000#, and LCI read me an “internal” document that stated it could handle in excess of 2,000# on the hitch. This implies to me the frame is not a limitation, but rather it’s the suspension as we are discussing.