Lithium Battery upgrade.

gerryball

Advanced Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
70
Location
Plumas County, CA
I recently upgraded my batteries to the Lithium LiFEPo4. I know I need to upgrade my Converter/charger to one that will charger to 14.6 amps. I would like to know what brand and model would be best. Right now, I have the stock converter that came with my 2020 303. WF=9855.

Thanks for any info. I asked this question back in Jan, but I just got the batteries.
 
I recently upgraded my batteries to the Lithium LiFEPo4. I know I need to upgrade my Converter/charger to one that will charger to 14.6 amps. I would like to know what brand and model would be best. Right now, I have the stock converter that came with my 2020 303. WF=9855.

Thanks for any info. I asked this question back in Jan, but I just got the batteries.

The brand that is most often recommended is Progressive Dynamics. Depending on how large you eventually want your battery bank to be, you could upgrade to an 80 or 90 amp charger, this would handle most 12v battery banks.

PS: you must have been referring to 14.6 volts, instead of amps.
 
I recently upgraded my batteries to the Lithium LiFEPo4. I know I need to upgrade my Converter/charger to one that will charger to 14.6 amps. I would like to know what brand and model would be best. Right now, I have the stock converter that came with my 2020 303. WF=9855.

Thanks for any info. I asked this question back in Jan, but I just got the batteries.

I upgraded my converter/charger in my 303RLS to the Power Max Lithium model PM3 120A and love it. There are several charging settings that are customizable. It quickly charges my LiP04 battery bank. I also remoted a switch to the front compartment so that I can power it off/on as desired when using shore power. All my main electrical devices are now in the front compartment for ease of access and maintainability.
 
The higher the converter capacity, the faster it will be to fill the LifePo4 batteries up. The only downfall would be cost [AFAIK]. Go big. I've got a PowerMax 100A converter and it works fine. I'm thinking of going to a 125A converter.

If you do go to a 100A, you are really close to the 15A breaker. My electrical panel is rated to 20A and had a 15A breaker. I swapped the breaker to a 20A because it would trip at times. Hasn't tripped since the swap.

I used my WF-9855 to charge the second 600ah set of LifePo4 batteries [before installation] and they charged them fine. Much higher than what you would expect.
 
The higher the converter capacity, the faster it will be to fill the LifePo4 batteries up. The only downfall would be cost [AFAIK]. Go big. I've got a PowerMax 100A converter and it works fine. I'm thinking of going to a 125A converter.

If you do go to a 100A, you are really close to the 15A breaker. My electrical panel is rated to 20A and had a 15A breaker. I swapped the breaker to a 20A because it would trip at times. Hasn't tripped since the swap.

I used my WF-9855 to charge the second 600ah set of LifePo4 batteries [before installation] and they charged them fine. Much higher than what you would expect.

The other possible problem area might be the batteries themselves or the BMS that they have. Some LFP batteries will have a BMS that only allows say 50 amps on a 100AH battery. Also, even if the battery's BMS doesn't limit current flow at the 50A level, all batteries will state what is allowed for charging current to flow to them safely. On a 100AH battery that may be .5C vs. 1C......which means 50amps instead of 100 amps. Just something to keep in mind before blowing a lot of money on a high output converter. Those of us with higher AH batteries is less likely to be affected. My 302AH DIY battery included.

The cell data sheet on my battery cells (EVE LF304 AH) are listed as: Standard Charge/Discharge of .5C which would make them 152 amps. Max Charge/Discharge is 250A for both. My installed BMS has a 200A limit for current flow both in or out.
 
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Yes indeed your capacity does matter but when does one just buy one LifePo4 battery? Once you see the benefits of them, if you did buy just one, how long do you think it will be before you buy two? If you do buy at least a pair, which pair on the market will take less than 100A?

One thing on the back of my mind is that if my batteries are at their minimum, it will take about 12+ hours to fully charge. Knowing the RV industry, how many converters can charge at the full capacity for that long? I'm not talking specs, talking about reality. Would I recommend a converter that could deliver more than you would use? In a heartbeat.

Would I recommend swapping a converter out when swapping to LiFePo4 batteries and go larger? Yes. If on a budget, get the batteries first, then converter later. The stock converter will be just fine. Won't full charge them but most [if not all] car manufacturers do not recommend to charge your car full unless you are going on a long trip.

One thing for certain, people really need to look at what their needs/wants are and not just go with someone else's opinion that might be totally different. The more you go down the LiFePo4 battery hole, the more questions you will have. If you like making your own decisions and like research, eventually, it will all make sense. If you like others to make decisions for your, I am certain there are a few business' that you could pay to get good advice and sell you some good products.
 
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Yes indeed your capacity does matter but when does one just buy one LifePo4 battery? Once you see the benefits of them, if you did buy just one, how long do you think it will be before you buy two? If you do buy at least a pair, which pair on the market will take less than 100A?

One thing on the back of my mind is that if my batteries are at their minimum, it will take about 12+ hours to fully charge. Knowing the RV industry, how many converters can charge at the full capacity for that long? I'm not talking specs, talking about reality. Would I recommend a converter that could deliver more than you would use? In a heartbeat.

Would I recommend swapping a converter out when swapping to LiFePo4 batteries and go larger? Yes. If on a budget, get the batteries first, then converter later. The stock converter will be just fine. Won't full charge them but most [if not all] car manufacturers do not recommend to charge your car full unless you are going on a long trip.

One thing for certain, people really need to look at what their needs/wants are and not just go with someone else's opinion that might be totally different. The more you go down the LiFePo4 battery hole, the more questions you will have. If you like making your own decisions and like research, eventually, it will all make sense. If you like others to make decisions for your, I am certain there are a few business' that you could pay to get good advice and sell you some good products.

Well, I'm probably a bit different than most folks because 1. I researched and studied and decided to build my own battery and install my separately purchased BMS. 2. My four EVE cells are 302/304 AH cells, so a decent size battery to start with. 3. It fits our needs perfectly because we don't really boondock, but I wanted a larger battery because we had the JC Refrigeration mod done to our Norcold 2118 fridge and it is now a 12VDC TWIN compressor unit and will go through about 145AH in a 24 hour period of time. So a huge buffer is there for even the longest of travel days....even if that travel day was 12 or more hours, which likely ain't going to happen...LOL. The added bonus is it perfectly capable of powering the 12VDC hydraulic slides and leveling system and not even break a sweat doing it....and I do that with complete confidence without even being plugged into shore power. Oh, and it starts my onboard Onan 5500W generator and spins it without hesitation. It's obvious, I'm very happy with the results.
 
I researched and studied and decided to build my own battery........It's obvious, I'm very happy with the results.

Are you surprised?

I bet, if something went wrong, you could figure it out yourself. Some of the benefits of doing it that way.

My reasons are because I am cheap and I like to research. Mostly cheap.
 
Are you surprised?

I bet, if something went wrong, you could figure it out yourself. Some of the benefits of doing it that way.

My reasons are because I am cheap and I like to research. Mostly cheap.

Well, cost to build vs. cost to buy is certainly a factor, but also being able to customize the BMS setting via the BT app for the DALY BMS was also a desirable thing too. And yes, hopefully I could figure it out with 43 years of being a Journeyman Electrician and spending a LOT of time on the DIY Solar forum and asking a lot of questions and reading stuff over there. In the 2...maybe 2 1/2 short years since I first began this process to learn, buy, and build, I'm not so sure anymore that there is a significant cost difference between building one and buying a good quality one. Back then, there was definitely a difference between building and buying based on AHs needed or wanted. The advantage of customization though I think is still clearly in favor of the building process. After I built mine, I did a load test on the fully charged battery to determine the actual amp hours that it had. I set my BMS to cutoff at 2.55 volts per cell, which is 10.2 volts for the battery, then hooked up a 200W 12VDC heater element and let it eat. I ended up with right at 308AH....and it would have been slightly more if I had taken the battery ALL the way to the bottom....2.5V per cell or 10.0 volts on the battery. I really didn't feel the need to do that though, as I mostly just wanted to prove that there was at least 302AH, which is what they advertise for the cells. Test was definitely successful!
 
Can someone tell me where the AC plug is on my 2020 303RLS? I've removed the panel in the pass-through storage bin and found the converter. I've tried to follow the AC cord, but it goes back though a jumbo of wires and can't see where the receptacle is. There is a receptacle on the outside wall of the storage bin.
 
Can someone tell me where the AC plug is on my 2020 303RLS? I've removed the panel in the pass-through storage bin and found the converter. I've tried to follow the AC cord, but it goes back though a jumbo of wires and can't see where the receptacle is. There is a receptacle on the outside wall of the storage bin.

It is usually on the rear of the main electrical panel. Built into the panel.
 
Well, cost to build vs. cost to buy is certainly a factor, but also being able to customize the BMS setting via the BT app for the DALY BMS was also a desirable thing too. And yes, hopefully I could figure it out with 43 years of being a Journeyman Electrician and spending a LOT of time on the DIY Solar forum and asking a lot of questions and reading stuff over there. In the 2...maybe 2 1/2 short years since I first began this process to learn, buy, and build, I'm not so sure anymore that there is a significant cost difference between building one and buying a good quality one. Back then, there was definitely a difference between building and buying based on AHs needed or wanted. The advantage of customization though I think is still clearly in favor of the building process. After I built mine, I did a load test on the fully charged battery to determine the actual amp hours that it had. I set my BMS to cutoff at 2.55 volts per cell, which is 10.2 volts for the battery, then hooked up a 200W 12VDC heater element and let it eat. I ended up with right at 308AH....and it would have been slightly more if I had taken the battery ALL the way to the bottom....2.5V per cell or 10.0 volts on the battery. I really didn't feel the need to do that though, as I mostly just wanted to prove that there was at least 302AH, which is what they advertise for the cells. Test was definitely successful!

When I need to replace my current LA batteries,2 100 ah, it seems to make a lot of sense to go lithium just do to the weight and the usable amps. Most of our camping is done with hook-ups but we do have the occasional boondocking. Does it seem practical to do the very expensive Battleborn or are some of the cheaper versions, like the LiTime, a good alternative. Is this really a situation that you get what you pay for? And if most of the time is hooked up do I really need the best out there? Just looking for opinions. With my LA I just leave my rig plugged in when parked at home but with the LiPo4 it is my understanding that doing that is harmful to the batteries, correct?
 
When I need to replace my current LA batteries,2 100 ah, it seems to make a lot of sense to go lithium just do to the weight and the usable amps. Most of our camping is done with hook-ups but we do have the occasional boondocking. Does it seem practical to do the very expensive Battleborn or are some of the cheaper versions, like the LiTime, a good alternative. Is this really a situation that you get what you pay for? And if most of the time is hooked up do I really need the best out there? Just looking for opinions. With my LA I just leave my rig plugged in when parked at home but with the LiPo4 it is my understanding that doing that is harmful to the batteries, correct?

Personally, I would never spend the money for a BattleBorn.....even when they are on sale. There are some good ones out there that are more reasonable cost-wise. I really don't have any experience with any of them though, as I built my own battery from EVE brand 302AH cells and then used a DALY BMS for it. I'm a firm believer in NOT keeping an LFP battery are 100% state of charge (SOC)....unless it is for a week or so till I'm going to use the camper again. I stay plugged into a 50A shore power setup at home also, but....I also turn the battery completely off with a 300A battery disconnect that I installed when I was building the battery a couple of years ago. Do this keeps the battery from getting any type of charge voltage, yet there is power to the converter/charger and it supplies power to anything that is 12VDC.....except my hydraulic slides and leveling. Those two item need the battery because the converter/charger cannot put out enough current to operate the hydraulic pump motor for the slides and landing gear/leveling.

Most LFP battery manufacturers will tell you that if you are going to "store" the battery and not use it for a month or more, make sure that it is at somewhere around a 40% to maybe 50% SOC. Trying to store one or not use it for a month or more is hard on the cells and will cause damage over a period of time
 
When I need to replace my current LA batteries,2 100 ah, it seems to make a lot of sense to go lithium just do to the weight and the usable amps. Most of our camping is done with hook-ups but we do have the occasional boondocking. Does it seem practical to do the very expensive Battleborn or are some of the cheaper versions, like the LiTime, a good alternative. Is this really a situation that you get what you pay for? And if most of the time is hooked up do I really need the best out there? Just looking for opinions. With my LA I just leave my rig plugged in when parked at home but with the LiPo4 it is my understanding that doing that is harmful to the batteries, correct?

At the top of the Solar and Generators Forum is a pinned thread titled "Affordable Solar...", in this thread are three links that you should read; the first is: "Cheap Batteries...", it discusses how affordable the Lithium (LiFePo4) batteries have gotten (3 years ago). The second thread you should read is "Cheap Batteries, Do You Have Them, and Do You Like Them?", here, people share their personal experiences with these value priced batteries (spoiler alert; most people really like them). The third thread is, "Lithium Over Lead Acid Batteries", here I explain how Lithium batteries are so much better than LA and how they are such a good value (especially at today's lower prices).

Additionally, just today, I checked in on the price of 12v, 100ah, Lithium (LiFePo4) batteries and found the lowest pricing on Amazon that I have ever seen. That post can be found by searching for: "Lithium batteries, the lowest prices yet" in the General Forum.

By-the-way, the lowest price I found was $153, with free shipping, along with several others priced around $178 with free shipping.

If you do decide on one of these lower priced batteries, I recommend that you find a teardown video on YouTube for the brand(s) you are considering purchasing to ensure they meet your quality and service expectations.
 
If I recall, the USA have just raised the tariffs and I believe Lithium batteries is on that list. Not certain if I am right and if I am, when it comes into effect.

Right now, they are really cheap [compared to a couple years ago].
 
If I recall, the USA have just raised the tariffs and I believe Lithium batteries is on that list. Not certain if I am right and if I am, when it comes into effect.

Right now, they are really cheap [compared to a couple years ago].

I agree, buy now before prices go up!!!!
 
A shunt is like an all in one fuel economy gauge and fuel level gauge. You can see how much electrons are passing [in or out of the battery] as well as how many have passed.

Do you need it? As cheap as they are, it's one of those things that once you have, you will say yes, you need it. If you do not have one, then you never really know how full the battery is.
 
And I'll just to what Butcher wrote....With LiFePO (LFP) batteries, voltage is not a very good indicator of battery level or SOC. LFP batteries' voltage curve is extremely flat, except at the opposing ends of the SOC. In other words, with a Flooded Lead Acid Battery (FLA) you can watch the voltage go down as the battery's SOC decreases and have a decent idea of how much charge you have left. Obviously, LFP batteries voltage declines also, but it stays a lot "flatter" than FLA. An example of this is like this for LFP......battery voltage showing 13.25V, which equates to roughly 80% SOC. Then, when the voltage is at 13.00 volts, the SOC would be approx. 30%. So a difference of just 1/4 of one volt is the difference between 80% battery charge and 30% of battery charge. That certainly is not going to be easy to see or even read on just a volt meter, and that is where a shunt comes into play. It actually counts the current that goes into the battery and out of the battery. If you run your battery down to say 40% state of charge, it has counted that you have used 60% of charge that was in it when it was full.
 
Upgraded charger

I recently upgraded my batteries to the Lithium LiFEPo4. I know I need to upgrade my Converter/charger to one that will charger to 14.6 amps. I would like to know what brand and model would be best. Right now, I have the stock converter that came with my 2020 303. WF=9855.

Thanks for any info. I asked this question back in Jan, but I just got the batteries.

I recently upgraded to Lithium and ended up with this charger for $169 off of Amazon. It pulls about 9amps on the 120V circuit when applying a 60+/- Amp charge to the batteries. It cycled thru the phases as advertised.

RecPro RV Converter 75 Amp | RV Power Converter & Battery Charger | 4 Stage Smart Charging | 120VAC to 12VDC | 13V to 16.5V Operating Range

I relocated the charger to the battery area so it is more accessible. To remove the previous one you had to remove wall panels in the basement. I used an 15amp rated 6' appliance extension cord.
 

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