LiTime Batteries

[Butcher]

I am not a fan of Amazon and I know I am a minority.

I accept the fact that the lower the price of the item I am buying, the lower my expectations are with the after sales service. I have not purchased anything from LiTime or Battleborn, but I suspect the reason for the price differences is the service after the sale. You get what you pay for.

I know of a Mercedes dealership where the owner gathered all the employees in the service department and told them the only reason why he has a service department is because he has to. If it was his choice, he would get fire all the employees because that department never makes any money. I suspect all business owners think that.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

I am not a fan of Amazon and I know I am a minority.

I know of a Mercedes dealership where the owner gathered all the employees in the service department and told them the only reason why he has a service department is because he has to. If it was his choice, he would get fire all the employees because that department never makes any money. I suspect all business owners think that.

I feel the same way about Amazon, I do buy stuff there, but only if I can't find it elsewhere. Which I can do a lot of the time.

I don't agree about the dealership with service department however. When you consider the number of cars they can sell, vs the number of hours in a workday multiplied by the hourly rate. 8-10 hours/day at around $200/hour, adds up pretty fast. And service bays are usually full, and mechanics are cheap, which is reflected in the quality of their work.

 

[Scott'n'Wendy]

I know of a Mercedes dealership where the owner gathered all the employees in the service department and told them the only reason why he has a service department is because he has to. If it was his choice, he would get fire all the employees because that department never makes any money. I suspect all business owners think that.

Just got everyone together to boost morale? Made them feel like they are part of the team and really contributing to their success. Sounds like a lovely boss.

 

[Butcher]

I asked the employee that told me the story why didn't everyone in the department walk out? I knew better to work in Tacoma.

If you elect to work for an owner like that, you turn into a spineless jelly fish or an ex-employee.

 

[SolarPoweredRV]

Just for clarification. You say using a thermal relay is easy with the blue stuff. Why do say it is easier? Adding a relay is the same no matter what you have I would think? Am I misunderstanding your post?

What makes the Victron Equipment so easy is that most of their equipment has a little wire loop that acts as an "ON" switch for the device. If you "break" that wire, the device will shut down (a.k.a. opening the circuit).

If you install a thermal relay that has an "NC" (Normally Closed) circuit, when the temperature drops to 32, or below, the circuit "Opens" up and the Victron equipment shuts down, thereby, preventing the batteries from being charged. Think of it as a switch that gets turned off whenever it gets too cold.

 

[Oldcow]

Even though my future Victron equipment could have handled low temperature cut off I decided to get batteries that have it built into the BMS. I ordered 3 LiTime 280ah batteries directly from them. Thanks for the input in this thread.

I'm excited as I build my system. Now for panels...

 

[Oldcow]

Received my batteries from LiTime. To me they seem well packaged. I will install these in the spring.

Oldcow

 

[cdamer]

Has anyone had any issues using the LiTime 230Ah battery to power the 4 point Lippert Ground Control 3? LiTime tech support is telling me the 230Ah will not support it.

 

[TimtheToolMan]

Has anyone had any issues using the LiTime 230Ah battery to power the 4 point Lippert Ground Control 3? LiTime tech support is telling me the 230Ah will not support it.

For those not familiar with this product, LiTime has three different models of 230Ah 12V and all have 200A BMS. I do not know if any of their products have higher capacity BMS. LiTime

A possible question could be are there any LiTime customers with 200A BMS that have had issues with Ground Control 3 or possibly even tried with 100A BMS?

eTrailer says 140A max because it has four 35A fuses but likely considerably less.

I have 7,000 pound (actual) TT with Lippert ground control (four legs and front jack so five point) and two 100Ah BT LiTime batteries each with 100A BMS and have only used it together two or three times. It operated fine, so far, but had no idea that it could be a problem. Next time I use system I will observe current drawn through Victron BMV-712 or BMS BT. I may take a trip to storage in a couple of weeks...

I do not know what fuse(s) it has installed except the front jack is 30A.

With my system only two of four jacks operate at a time and the front jack operates alone.

 

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Has anyone had any issues using the LiTime 230Ah battery to power the 4 point Lippert Ground Control 3? LiTime tech support is telling me the 230Ah will not support it.

LiTime tech has no idea what he is talking about. Or didn't understand your question. I have run my Lippert Ground control 3 off a single litime 100ah battery, at 30% state of charge. No shore power.

 

[TimtheToolMan]

LiTime discharge is rated at: peak 2C to 3C, maximum continuous .5C, and 1C for 30 seconds (per Copilot).

Scott's experience is very encouraging.

Copilot is not showing any related issues, which adds more confidence.

I hate to speculate on what these manufacturers are doing but LiTime has a trolling motor model with higher peak initial current rating, and I wonder if they are thinking that the leveling system is more similar to a trolling motor than other uses because of the high starting current vs running of DC motors. When I get a little specific with questions, I tend not to get usable answers from LiTime (but do you blame them seeing the crazy stuff I write?). Battle Born has been much better with valuable and specific answers.

I could try to measure peak current on my leveling system with a clamp meter and then try to deal with the data, but I hope I will just see how it goes and know that it worked for Scott. What are my options at this point...adding more batteries, which I absolutely do not need more capacity? (I am just talking to myself...).

These campers have multiple motors, even wo leveling system: slides, front jack and I do not see complaints.

If I was buying batteries, it might make sense to pass on LiTime (later added: or get one with higher current rating/one that LiTime recommends?) because they said this would be an issue (clearly they are seeing problems in some related area)--not that I really believe what they are saying though... I do respect that they are not just saying no problem and selling product when they think they know better...

Added 11/27/2024: After watching leveling system used with 5th wheel it is clear that no more than two jacks (not four) are running at the same time so by adjusted eTrailer estimate, max running current is less than 35Ax2=70A, so call it 60A with a wild guess motor starting factor of 3 (2-4?), 60Ax3= 180A peak for a very short period of time (too short a period of time for circuit breaker/fuse to trip). With a 100Ah LiTime battery rated at 2C to 3C peak, rating is 200A to 300A. 200Ah battery peak rating is 400A to 600A. 230Ah possibly higher.

I'm sure I'm off but it's a number and it will be higher or lower.

Since I do not know how many cycles or how long the LiTime 2-3C load is rated for, but Pilot says: "2C to 3C could reduce the BMS life cycle count to a few hundred cycles or even less".

I am not hinting that LiTime is wrong in saying that "230Ah battery will not support leveling system" per cdamer above.

I'll use both my 100Ah batteries vs sometimes just one.

 

[Jason-Texas]

I have one Litime 100 amp hour battery with my 3.0 system on a 337, used when less than 100%, no shore power, and they worked fine.

 

[TimtheToolMan]

I just added more text in my last post above.

 

[Grandesigner]

No issues with mine now that I have a better slide system and a Li battery...

 

[Butcher]

I've never measured the wires to the motor or coming out of the controller, but I cannot imagine they could handle 60A. Especially the longer runs at the rear.

Maybe someday I will measure that current.

 

[TimtheToolMan]

• How long were batteries in storage?
• How much were they charged before storing?
• Was power disconnected from battery when stored?

LiTime and most manufactures say to store at 50% (I believe and fully charge every 3-4 months, to balance cells?) but Battle Born says 100% (Tesla says take newer LFP to 100% weekly). 50% gives longer longevity but 100% allows batteries to be in storage longer and ensures balanced cells before storage--with a light load on them (no load is highly recommended). Of course if stored at 50% and no load the batteries should hold a charge a very long period of time.​

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Great to hear that you got batteries going again without having to send them in for repair, if possible.​

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Initially battery buyers were early adopters who may have built their own and watched the batteries like a hawk (a few guys active on this site), then people with significant lead acid battery experience and now more people (not BeerBewer) who will just have LFP put in and off grid camp with little to no: full battery shut-off (if they do not have BT LFP), solar, generator, but have high demand frig., insignificant related training ...LFP are great but they are not bullet proof--way better than LA which has no BMS.​

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They spent a ton of money on this stuff and it does not work off grid for very long at all without being added to or modified or for that matter just stored. I am not complaining but hope for improvement...​

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Thanks so much to the many participants on this site who devote countess hours to make all this better!​

LiTime got back to me on question of fully recharging and discharging every three months when in storage. This was an error on their part, they are correcting the online information, and they recommend just charging at three months--following literature sent with battery (likely mean if needed, which is very unlikely unless there is a problem).

I hope I did not start another myth that never dies...

 

[TimtheToolMan]

I've never measured the wires to the motor or coming out of the controller, but I cannot imagine they could handle 60A. Especially the longer runs at the rear.

Maybe someday I will measure that current.

Mine have a set of wires for each leg so 30A is the question. Yes, those wire lengths are very long. I do not know how much current these wires would take for say for .1 seconds (above proper rating for wire), and to a point of being just below insulation degradation. Then the controller has to be able to produce the current for that fraction of a second...

Of course, we are talking about total current from all loads in camper...

Very well could be another error by a manufacture, this time LiTime.

 

[Butcher]

For a fraction of a second, even the smallest wire can probably take 100A. That's what fuses do. Basically, it's a small wire that when current passes, it will heat up. The more current that passes, the more heat until it blows.

I never really look at the surge current because if you got a really good meter, you will be surprised how fast those electrons want to move.

 

[TimtheToolMan]

These are not fast acting fuses/circuit so brief surge current to trip is well above their rating.

 

[TimtheToolMan]

Has anyone had any issues using the LiTime 230Ah battery to power the 4 point Lippert Ground Control 3? LiTime tech support is telling me the 230Ah will not support it.

LiTime recently got back to me, after some investigation on their part, with a very useful reply and action related to a question. A feather in their cap.

Now I am encouraged that they may respond to more detailed questions with a useful answer.

I encourage you to email the response that they gave you (critical to getting a good answer) and ask very specific related questions, like:

LiTime says that 230Ah battery does not support 4-point Lippert Ground Control 3 leveling system on a camper/RV.

• What LiTime battery does support this leveling system?
  
  
• Is LiTime aware that only two small motors are used for a short period of time, and only two at a time and the circuit breakers that support these are 35A? Also, LiTime 100Ah batteries have worked without a problem on these exact leveling systems.

I personally do not need to get to the bottom of this issue but would like to help others who maybe purchasing LFP batteries. I do not want to push LiTime's patience with ongoing questions and do not have their reply to you, so do not want to send the question myself. LiTime contact

As you can see, I am not a trial and error guy and dislike myths that this topic could create.