I was doing a check of my hubs today. Some of the lug nuts did not spin freely after loosened. Anyone else experienced this? Does this indicate an underlying issue? Should I apply some type of lubricant to the studs before reinstalling?
No on lubricant. It will throw the tightening specs off. Studs should havev rolled threads which are far more durable than cut threads which is what the lugnuts have. At some point those lugs were damaged, likely from over tightening. athey need to be replaced you cannot acuratly torque them when the threads are damagedI was doing a check of my hubs today. Some of the lug nuts did not spin freely after loosened. Anyone else experienced this? Does this indicate an underlying issue? Should I apply some type of lubricant to the studs before reinstalling?
This is exactly right. If you use anti-seize, or the like, lessening the torque settings by around 15-20% is a good idea. They're not going to loosen up by using thread lubricant. Personally I don't think it's as big an issue as it used to be since the studs don't rust, which used to be a problem in the past.If you use anti seize you do need to adjust the torque specs. It's perfectly fine to use it, and many owners of boat trailers do this. But it is important to adjust the torque.
I cleaned the studs with brake cleaner and a wire wheel on a dremel. I cleaned the nuts with brake cleaner and a battery terminal cleaner. I bought the copper based anti-seize but decided against it because i don’t feel comfortable adjusting the torque. All is good now. Just some grime, no noticeable corrosion.
Edit: thanks for your input. I learned a lot.
I've done it for over 25 years, and I'll likely continue. And my thought is it is a simple CYA.That's the proper way. If you have open lugnuts you can coat the threads now after installed to protect them but its not necessary.
There is no "correcting" torque for coated lugnut threads. That is how people end up with damaged nuts, studs, wheel lug seats, stripped threads, snapped studs, ect. I've seen it all. Just because someone got away with it in the past does not make it correct.
In the professional world a shop be held liable if the customer loses a wheel. Yes, I've seen that too. The last one was an Excursion and the shop got the bill for a new aluminum wheel and the tow.
Besides, this is why they invented Acorn style solid capped lugnuts that most vehicles and even trailers come with nowadays. No worries of rust then.
Matter of fact, here's the back of the Anti-sieze package. Read the Warning for yourselves.
View attachment 739845
Lugnuts on most vehicles and in this case, trailers, are relying on the friction of the threads & conical surface area designed to be torqued dry and the torque values reflect that. Gob up the threads and the surface area with a lubricant like never seize and then you torque them to the designated value you have the issues of collapsed conical area that pinches the threads, over stretches the studs with a risk of them failing to name a couple things. Add that to an aluminum wheel and the nut can also deform the conical seat.I've done it for over 25 years, and I'll likely continue. And my thought is it is a simple CYA.
And curious what is different about lug nuts, from any other securing fastener?
I don't disagree with you at all and will not argue the point. I just know that on my boat trailer, it's no fun removing lugs that haven't been lubricated, and there is plenty of information out there about how to compensate torque related to lubrication. But here's the FAQ from Permatex's website and their reasoning behind the disclaimer:That's the proper way. If you have open lugnuts you can coat the threads now after installed to protect them but its not necessary.
There is no "correcting" torque for coated lugnut threads. That is how people end up with damaged nuts, studs, wheel lug seats, stripped threads, snapped studs, ect. I've seen it all. Just because someone got away with it in the past does not make it correct.
In the professional world a shop be held liable if the customer loses a wheel. Yes, I've seen that too. The last one was an Excursion and the shop got the bill for a new aluminum wheel and the tow.
Besides, this is why they invented Acorn style solid capped lugnuts that most vehicles and even trailers come with nowadays. No worries of rust then.
Matter of fact, here's the back of the Anti-sieze package. Read the Warning for yourselves.
View attachment 739845
All fasteners that are torqued require adjustment if intended to be dry and someone wants to torque them wet. For the most part it is the clamping force on the faces of the two pieces being held together that determines the required torque on the fastener. Lube changes the value significantly. It's not necessarily wrong to use lube on fasteners, you just need to know the torque value should be changed. For example AST (anti-sieze-tech) says a fastener with AS on the threads should reduce the applied torque by 25% to achieve similar clamping effects.I've done it for over 25 years, and I'll likely continue. And my thought is it is a simple CYA.
And curious what is different about lug nuts, from any other securing fastener?
Have done and still do offroad Jeeping. Because of the nature of the sport of going thru anything (mud, water, dirt, etc) when wheeling, it helps to cleanup the lugs after removal. However, I never leave the threads wet when cleaning with WD-40. Always spray on some (WD-40), run a wire wheel or brush over the threads, and then spray with brake clean and let dry. Use a battery terminal cleaner with same method on lugnuts. Then always use mechanical hand tools to put nuts back on. BTW, do the same on my other vehicles/trailers too.All fasteners that are torqued require adjustment if intended to be dry and someone wants to torque them wet. For the most part it is the clamping force on the faces of the two pieces being held together that determines the required torque on the fastener. Lube changes the value significantly. It's not necessarily wrong to use lube on fasteners, you just need to know the torque value should be changed. For example AST (anti-sieze-tech) says a fastener with AS on the threads should reduce the applied torque by 25% to achieve similar clamping effects.
I snapped a stud on my 1 ton a few years ago torquing a WD-40 lubed lug nut to 120 ft-lbs.
So I dug into the wet vs dry rabbit hole. Learned a lot...I think...maybe. Look at truck and Jeep forums and there are a lot of really misinformed people out there. I remember on one forum a guy saying torque is torque, 80 pounds is 80 pounds wet or dry and if he oils the threads each time his wife can undo them so she can change her own flat..lol
I think this is totally different than a travel trailer where there is 3500# bearing down on one hub/wheel. I'm not overly cautious with my other vehicles, just my tow vehicle and RV.HAve done and
Have done and still do offroad Jeeping. Because of the nature of the sport of going thru anything (mud, water, dirt, etc) when wheeling, it helps to cleanup the lugs after removal. However, I never leave the threads wet when cleaning with WD-40. Always spray on some (WD-40), run a wire wheel or brush over the threads, and then spray with brake clean and let dry. Use a battery terminal cleaner with same method on lugnuts. Then always use mechanical hand tools to put nuts back on. BTW, do the same on my other vehicles/trailers too.
When your on the trail, dont want to have to replace a lug or fight a striped nut..... way too many other "opportunities" (not to mention fun obstacle wheeling) to potentially deal with.
My '97 TJ 4.0 5spd is setup for a little of everything. Its been retired since '98 and used for offroad usage ever since. I got a full roll cage conversion kit, Atlas TC, Skyjacker Double Flex 4" Lift, quick and easy turn steer box, Dana 44's w/4.11's F/R, Warn 9000i winch, flat front fenders, high volume Melings oil pump/pickup, and skid plates.Ha, I offroad with my TJ as well. However...I do not look for obstacles...I pick my way through the cuts etc in the northern Ontario bush to get to fishing lakes or moose/deer/bird hunting spots.
You a rock crawler?
I fully agree with your lug nut treatment. I hit with some sort of degreaser if needed now.
As to the broken stud on my truck, the dealer graciously replaced both front hubs for free...in case there were defective studs on the assy. I think they had to put something down to satisfy warranty HQ.