Lug nuts not spinning freely

[coglesby]

I was doing a check of my hubs today. Some of the lug nuts did not spin freely after loosened. Anyone else experienced this? Does this indicate an underlying issue? Should I apply some type of lubricant to the studs before reinstalling?

 

[huntindog]

I was doing a check of my hubs today. Some of the lug nuts did not spin freely after loosened. Anyone else experienced this? Does this indicate an underlying issue? Should I apply some type of lubricant to the studs before reinstalling?

No on lubricant. It will throw the tightening specs off. Studs should havev rolled threads which are far more durable than cut threads which is what the lugnuts have. At some point those lugs were damaged, likely from over tightening. athey need to be replaced you cannot acuratly torque them when the threads are damaged

 

[Scott'n'Wendy]

As long as you see no evidence of corrosion, I would agree with dog.

 

[18CrewDually]

Like stated above, this is a sign of overtightening. When over torqued, the conical nut will pinch the threads making it difficult to remove, especially by hand. Do NOT use a lube on the threads. Dry clean threads only when torqueing down.
Personally if they're bad, I'd replace the nuts with a solid quality one. I usually get them as a set from my local Napa store.

 

[jleonard]

Color me crazy but I always put a small dab of anti seize on the studs.
Never had anything come loose.

 

[Riverbug]

If you use anti seize you do need to adjust the torque specs. It's perfectly fine to use it, and many owners of boat trailers do this. But it is important to adjust the torque.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

If you use anti seize you do need to adjust the torque specs. It's perfectly fine to use it, and many owners of boat trailers do this. But it is important to adjust the torque.

This is exactly right. If you use anti-seize, or the like, lessening the torque settings by around 15-20% is a good idea. They're not going to loosen up by using thread lubricant. Personally I don't think it's as big an issue as it used to be since the studs don't rust, which used to be a problem in the past.

 

[jleonard]

I use the same torque stick. I got used to using anti seize after living in the rust belt so long. Its part of the process. Wheel studs rust in those regions.

 

[coglesby]

I cleaned the studs with brake cleaner and a wire wheel on a dremel. I cleaned the nuts with brake cleaner and a battery terminal cleaner. I bought the copper based anti-seize but decided against it because i don’t feel comfortable adjusting the torque. All is good now. Just some grime, no noticeable corrosion.

Edit: thanks for your input. I learned a lot.

 

[18CrewDually]

I cleaned the studs with brake cleaner and a wire wheel on a dremel. I cleaned the nuts with brake cleaner and a battery terminal cleaner. I bought the copper based anti-seize but decided against it because i don’t feel comfortable adjusting the torque. All is good now. Just some grime, no noticeable corrosion.

Edit: thanks for your input. I learned a lot.

That's the proper way. If you have open lugnuts you can coat the threads now after installed to protect them but its not necessary.
There is no "correcting" torque for coated lugnut threads. That is how people end up with damaged nuts, studs, wheel lug seats, stripped threads, snapped studs, ect. I've seen it all. Just because someone got away with it in the past does not make it correct.
In the professional world a shop be held liable if the customer loses a wheel. Yes, I've seen that too. The last one was an Excursion and the shop got the bill for a new aluminum wheel and the tow.
Besides, this is why they invented Acorn style solid capped lugnuts that most vehicles and even trailers come with nowadays. No worries of rust then.
Matter of fact, here's the back of the Anti-sieze package. Read the Warning for yourselves.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

That's the proper way. If you have open lugnuts you can coat the threads now after installed to protect them but its not necessary.
There is no "correcting" torque for coated lugnut threads. That is how people end up with damaged nuts, studs, wheel lug seats, stripped threads, snapped studs, ect. I've seen it all. Just because someone got away with it in the past does not make it correct.
In the professional world a shop be held liable if the customer loses a wheel. Yes, I've seen that too. The last one was an Excursion and the shop got the bill for a new aluminum wheel and the tow.
Besides, this is why they invented Acorn style solid capped lugnuts that most vehicles and even trailers come with nowadays. No worries of rust then.
Matter of fact, here's the back of the Anti-sieze package. Read the Warning for yourselves.
View attachment 739845

I've done it for over 25 years, and I'll likely continue. And my thought is it is a simple CYA.

And curious what is different about lug nuts, from any other securing fastener?

 

[18CrewDually]

I've done it for over 25 years, and I'll likely continue. And my thought is it is a simple CYA.

And curious what is different about lug nuts, from any other securing fastener?

Lugnuts on most vehicles and in this case, trailers, are relying on the friction of the threads & conical surface area designed to be torqued dry and the torque values reflect that. Gob up the threads and the surface area with a lubricant like never seize and then you torque them to the designated value you have the issues of collapsed conical area that pinches the threads, over stretches the studs with a risk of them failing to name a couple things. Add that to an aluminum wheel and the nut can also deform the conical seat.
I'm not going back and forth here. I gave plenty of info. And there's plenty of info out on the web I'm sure. End of the day, everyone will do what they want. My reason for explaining this is for the guy that reads all this because they don't know better and want to be better.
Enjoy the rest of the Superbowl.

 

[coglesby]

I have Dexter axles. Here’s what Claude.ai says about this topic for Dexter axles. Just informational:

According to Dexter Axle's maintenance manual, they specifically recommend NOT using any lubricant on wheel studs or lug nuts. They state to keep the threads clean and dry.

Here's Dexter's position:
1. Never use lubricants (including anti-seize, oil, or grease) on studs or lug nuts
2. Clean studs should be dry before installation
3. Use proper torque specs for your specific wheel type
4. Torque sequence is in a star pattern
5. Regular torque checks are important, especially during first 50-100 miles

For Dexter axles, torque specs vary by wheel type:
- Steel wheels: 90-120 ft-lbs
- Aluminum wheels: 110-120 ft-lbs

Since you have a Dexter axle, you should clean off any lubricants completely using the brake cleaner method described earlier, and keep them dry going forward. This aligns with their official maintenance requirements for safe operation.

 

[Tony_in_AZ]

I've use the antiseize stuff on lug nuts for decades. My no seize container has different info on it as the photo shows. I use 95 foot lbs of torque on my aluminum wheels on the 8 lug nuts. I check them regularly too

I've never watched a super bowl game. The stores were so empty today , I commented to my wife. She answered "its super bowl day"

 

[Riverbug]

That's the proper way. If you have open lugnuts you can coat the threads now after installed to protect them but its not necessary.
There is no "correcting" torque for coated lugnut threads. That is how people end up with damaged nuts, studs, wheel lug seats, stripped threads, snapped studs, ect. I've seen it all. Just because someone got away with it in the past does not make it correct.
In the professional world a shop be held liable if the customer loses a wheel. Yes, I've seen that too. The last one was an Excursion and the shop got the bill for a new aluminum wheel and the tow.
Besides, this is why they invented Acorn style solid capped lugnuts that most vehicles and even trailers come with nowadays. No worries of rust then.
Matter of fact, here's the back of the Anti-sieze package. Read the Warning for yourselves.
View attachment 739845

I don't disagree with you at all and will not argue the point. I just know that on my boat trailer, it's no fun removing lugs that haven't been lubricated, and there is plenty of information out there about how to compensate torque related to lubrication. But here's the FAQ from Permatex's website and their reasoning behind the disclaimer:
Does Permatex® suggest applying anti-seize to lubricate lug nuts when installing or tightening the nuts?

Permatex® does not recommend the use of any anti-seize product on wheel studs. Many people have used anti-seize for this applications, however, there is the potential for over-torqueing and therefore, higher clamp loads and potentially dangerous bolt stretch. Because of the lubricity of anti-seize, there is a tendency to over-tighten because of the ease with which the nut will bear down on the lug. For this reason, even if you try to torque the nuts to factory specs, the clamp load may become too high depending on the type of bolt, size and manufacturer.

 

[Scott'n'Wendy]

I've done it for over 25 years, and I'll likely continue. And my thought is it is a simple CYA.

And curious what is different about lug nuts, from any other securing fastener?

All fasteners that are torqued require adjustment if intended to be dry and someone wants to torque them wet. For the most part it is the clamping force on the faces of the two pieces being held together that determines the required torque on the fastener. Lube changes the value significantly. It's not necessarily wrong to use lube on fasteners, you just need to know the torque value should be changed. For example AST (anti-sieze-tech) says a fastener with AS on the threads should reduce the applied torque by 25% to achieve similar clamping effects.

https://www.antiseize.com/PDFs/torque_specifications.pdf

I snapped a stud on my 1 ton a few years ago torquing a WD-40 lubed lug nut to 120 ft-lbs.
So I dug into the wet vs dry rabbit hole. Learned a lot...I think...maybe. Look at truck and Jeep forums and there are a lot of really misinformed people out there. I remember on one forum a guy saying torque is torque, 80 pounds is 80 pounds wet or dry and if he oils the threads each time his wife can undo them so she can change her own flat..lol

 

[trailrydr]

HAve done and

All fasteners that are torqued require adjustment if intended to be dry and someone wants to torque them wet. For the most part it is the clamping force on the faces of the two pieces being held together that determines the required torque on the fastener. Lube changes the value significantly. It's not necessarily wrong to use lube on fasteners, you just need to know the torque value should be changed. For example AST (anti-sieze-tech) says a fastener with AS on the threads should reduce the applied torque by 25% to achieve similar clamping effects.

https://www.antiseize.com/PDFs/torque_specifications.pdf

I snapped a stud on my 1 ton a few years ago torquing a WD-40 lubed lug nut to 120 ft-lbs.
So I dug into the wet vs dry rabbit hole. Learned a lot...I think...maybe. Look at truck and Jeep forums and there are a lot of really misinformed people out there. I remember on one forum a guy saying torque is torque, 80 pounds is 80 pounds wet or dry and if he oils the threads each time his wife can undo them so she can change her own flat..lol

Have done and still do offroad Jeeping. Because of the nature of the sport of going thru anything (mud, water, dirt, etc) when wheeling, it helps to cleanup the lugs after removal. However, I never leave the threads wet when cleaning with WD-40. Always spray on some (WD-40), run a wire wheel or brush over the threads, and then spray with brake clean and let dry. Use a battery terminal cleaner with same method on lugnuts. Then always use mechanical hand tools to put nuts back on. BTW, do the same on my other vehicles/trailers too.

When your on the trail, dont want to have to replace a lug or fight a striped nut..... way too many other "opportunities" (not to mention fun obstacle wheeling) to potentially deal with.

 

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Ha, I offroad with my TJ as well. However...I do not look for obstacles...I pick my way through the cuts etc in the northern Ontario bush to get to fishing lakes or moose/deer/bird hunting spots.
You a rock crawler?
I fully agree with your lug nut treatment. I hit with some sort of degreaser if needed now.
As to the broken stud on my truck, the dealer graciously replaced both front hubs for free...in case there were defective studs on the assy. I think they had to put something down to satisfy warranty HQ.

 

[coglesby]

HAve done and

Have done and still do offroad Jeeping. Because of the nature of the sport of going thru anything (mud, water, dirt, etc) when wheeling, it helps to cleanup the lugs after removal. However, I never leave the threads wet when cleaning with WD-40. Always spray on some (WD-40), run a wire wheel or brush over the threads, and then spray with brake clean and let dry. Use a battery terminal cleaner with same method on lugnuts. Then always use mechanical hand tools to put nuts back on. BTW, do the same on my other vehicles/trailers too.

When your on the trail, dont want to have to replace a lug or fight a striped nut..... way too many other "opportunities" (not to mention fun obstacle wheeling) to potentially deal with.

I think this is totally different than a travel trailer where there is 3500# bearing down on one hub/wheel. I'm not overly cautious with my other vehicles, just my tow vehicle and RV.

 

[trailrydr]

Ha, I offroad with my TJ as well. However...I do not look for obstacles...I pick my way through the cuts etc in the northern Ontario bush to get to fishing lakes or moose/deer/bird hunting spots.
You a rock crawler?
I fully agree with your lug nut treatment. I hit with some sort of degreaser if needed now.
As to the broken stud on my truck, the dealer graciously replaced both front hubs for free...in case there were defective studs on the assy. I think they had to put something down to satisfy warranty HQ.

My '97 TJ 4.0 5spd is setup for a little of everything. Its been retired since '98 and used for offroad usage ever since. I got a full roll cage conversion kit, Atlas TC, Skyjacker Double Flex 4" Lift, quick and easy turn steer box, Dana 44's w/4.11's F/R, Warn 9000i winch, flat front fenders, high volume Melings oil pump/pickup, and skid plates.

Since I like my the DW to accompany me on the trails, I dont do much of the "scary" stuff. LOL! But here in the US midwest one can get it all, and the DW really likes the water/mud trail challenges too.... ALOT more than the 3 wheel only touching on off camber crawls, or 2 wheel wheelies over fast steep climbs. Never rolled it yet (knock on wood), but wasnt for lack of trying.. Need to get one of those front seat cams to catch those precious moments on her face, LOL!

Btw, always carry a few extra lugs/nuts, tie rods, axle, intake filter, Gluetread tire sidewall repair kit, and plenty of tools for just such trail opportunities.