My first Grand Design Experience

[GMRetired]

After three years of looking for the perfect 5th wheel the Wife and I purchased the Grand Design Reflection 29RS. It seemed to be the perfect set up for us, not too big, just enough room for me, the wife, and our yellow lab. We were pretty excited as we had been looking for a long time. I’m sad to say that the day we were to take delivery we noticed a few things wrong with the 5th wheel. Our dealer assured us that he would get it fixed. There’s a campground attached to the dealership, so we spent one night in the fifth wheel and by the next morning we had an even longer list of things that were wrong:

• Wood trim along the kitchen table slide was pulled away and cracked
• Window shade broke the first time we closed it
• The frame and trim around the main door was not aligned correctly, this allowed you to be able to see daylight coming through the side of the 5th wheel when the main door was open and only the screen door was shut
• Black water tank leaked
• The dealer also found that the toilet was leaking and had to be replaced
• Mini fridge in the outside cubby was very loud and did not cool
• Outside TV was not hooked up correctly
• Sink covers missing
• Gouge on the back of the island requiring repair

So needless to say we haven’t even gotten the 5th Wheel home yet! Our dealer seems to be getting everything fixed for us but I’m real concerned about the quality of Grand Design. I called Grand Design today to tell them about all the issues we have had so far and my concerns about their quality. The customer service guy I talked to didn’t seem to care less. He told me that everything is made on an assembly line with robots and sometimes things just happen. I found this interesting because Grand Design website talks about their Amish craftsmanship not robots. I quickly informed him that I worked on an auto assembly line for 30 years and that yes things can happen but we have quality control to ensure the customer doesn’t end up with a bad vehicle. I asked the rep if they had quality control and he said yes. I told him they weren’t very good. He said “that’s your opinion” I then told him I didn’t think I would ever purchase a Grand Design again and he said “that’s up to you” He didn’t seem to care one way or the other. Have any of you had similar experiences? Or any advice for us? With all these problems already and we haven’t even taken it off the lot yet I’m just worried about how it’s going to hold up when we actually start using it! Today in the mail I received the license plates and I don’t even have anything to put them on. We are pretty disappointed so far because we have waited for this purchase for a long time. The dealer is hoping to get the new mini fridge put in tomorrow and we plan to pick it up on Friday. I sure hope the repairs that we are having done will be all that is wrong with it. We have already missed two camping trips. We asked the rep to pay for the 2nd AC unit that we are having placed in it for some type of compensation for our inconvenience but he refused. I know a lot of the repairs seem little but when you see so many little things at once it adds up and really makes me worried about the quality.

 

[TucsonJim]

Robots? I took a tour of the factory, and saw lots of assemblers, but no robots. Maybe it's something they added in another building since our tour in August. I too had a whole list of things to fix. We've worked our way through them, and our Reflection has over 9000 miles with no significant issues in the last 6000. I can assure you, they do have a rigorous quality control group, and I got to see it first hand. they went through the units with a fine tooth comb. Most of my problems were with components were supplied to Grand Design by other manufacturers. They were not directly attributable to Grand Design workmanship. I'm not sure how you had so many escapes, and it's very disheartening to hear about your contact with the customer service representative. I'd suggest you escalate your concerns to top management of the company. You can send a PM to Bill Fenech on this site. He's a member. If you don't get a response, you can call Grand Design and ask for Bill Fenech, Ron Fenech, or Don Clark who are all co-owners. I assure you they are very concerned about customer satisfaction and will be eager to work with you.

 

[Gsport]

You know you can't believe everything you read on the "net". Sometimes when I read an article like this I think it is just someone looking to stir it up. I know we've all had things not right, but he sure seems to be pouring it on. If this is for real, I hope he gets everything sorted out to his satisfaction.

 

[huntr70]

There are some things you state that are probably your take on it...


The sink covers do not come with a Reflection, so they were not missing.

The door alignment I highly doubt, as the holes cut into the side of all Grand Design are cut out using the framing in the walls. I would bet that you are seeing light come through the door latch hole that is cut in so you can lock the door. I've heard that several times from people that don't know.


There is no doubt you do have some issues, but a bunch of them sound like your dealer didn't do a very good job in their PDI/prep.

If they would have actually tested the water system, they would have found the toilet and black tank issue, and it should have been corrected before you ever came to take delivery.

As you know, these are not cars, and are not even remotely built like them. There are many, many recalls out on vehicles right now, so even they are not perfect.

 

[Justaguy]

Wow! Let's name names, please. If they did what you said then they should "own" it as they say. Mclain's has treated us very well. We had the dining room table replaced as the old one was too long and would rub the island when the slides were closed. The Atwood fridge had a hiccup with the circuit board but that is it. Like Tuscon Jim we have a lot of miles on our rig...well over 10,000 to be exact and about 100 nights. Other than what is listed above we have zero problems. We even had no problems with the Westlake Super ST tires. (We changed those out and sold 'em on Craig's List.) The funky Atwood thermostats take a little getting used to but man, what a/cs units they are! The Atwood fridge has never let us down. Even the little fast-recovery water heater is perfect. (Wifey takes long, hot showers. Me? eh...not so much.) It I had to complain anything it would be the drawer bottoms. You have to watch what you put in them. Not too heavy or they will break thru. We have enjoyed many nights in our rig and looking forward to many more.

 

[Sandi]

You know you can't believe everything you read on the "net". Sometimes when I read an article like this I think it is just someone looking to stir it up. I know we've all had things not right, but he sure seems to be pouring it on. If this is for real, I hope he gets everything sorted out to his satisfaction.

I have to say I agree with Gsport!!! All of us that have been to the factory never saw the first hint of a robot!!! Secondly lots of us real owner have called and spoken with the customer service representatives or techs and NONE of us have ever had that kind of experience!!! Just a little suspicious here..... maybe some of the competitors are getting a little nervous that GD is selling as fast as they can make them. And to that point the build lines can make 12 units a day but choose to only put out 8 so that they do have better quality control! Do things happen?? Absolutley!! Lets's remember these are complete homes, put on wheels and slung down the road at 70 MPH!!

 

[Glazier]

Most of the items listed (excluding the problem with the toilet) could have been done outside of the Grand Design facility. The selling dealer could have damaged the trim, gouged the island, and broke the shade. This needs to be addressed by your dealer, if they don't fix these then report it to Grand Design. Everything described in this punch list could be replaced, or repaired in one day. The components are something the Grand Design team has no control over, installation they do. I have 100% confidence in Grand Design, I have no idea about you selling dealer, but I would put this list in their hands right away. Now is the time to check your dealer out, not throw Grand Design under the bus. I bet you get all this resolved one way or another. Best of luck

 

[GMRetired]

Gsport sorry, to say but all the things stated in my post are true. I'm definitely not trying to stir things up or pouring it on. I was actually just seeking some support or advice and wondering if any of you have had the same experience.

 

[GMRetired]

huntr70, Nothing that I wrote was "my take on it." Everything happened exactly as I stated. The customer rep said the sink covers were ordered. So I assume they do come with it but just wasn't there. I’m not sure what the cause is in the door alignment. There was definitely light coming through and the wood trim around the right side of the door was not aligned correctly. The wood trim seemed flush to the door at the top then a gap around the middle of the door ( I could see light coming through when main door open) and then flush again at the bottom. I agree the dealer should have tested the water system prior to delivery. When they did they found a blockage in the tank and flushed it out. Regardless, it came from the factory like that. I do know these are not cars But they are built like them. An assembly line is an assembly line. I agree cars are not perfect and I know there have been a lot of recalls lately. Most of them are from parts that are outsourced.

 

[GMRetired]

Robots? I took a tour of the factory, and saw lots of assemblers, but no robots. Maybe it's something they added in another building since our tour in August. I too had a whole list of things to fix. We've worked our way through them, and our Reflection has over 9000 miles with no significant issues in the last 6000. I can assure you, they do have a rigorous quality control group, and I got to see it first hand. they went through the units with a fine tooth comb. Most of my problems were with components were supplied to Grand Design by other manufacturers. They were not directly attributable to Grand Design workmanship. I'm not sure how you had so many escapes, and it's very disheartening to hear about your contact with the customer service representative. I'd suggest you escalate your concerns to top management of the company. You can send a PM to Bill Fenech on this site. He's a member. If you don't get a response, you can call Grand Design and ask for Bill Fenech, Ron Fenech, or Don Clark who are all co-owners. I assure you they are very concerned about customer satisfaction and will be eager to work with you.

Thanks for your reply TucsonJim! The customer service rep told me robots, don't know why he would say that if they didn't have some type of automation. I'm glad to hear that your Reflection has performed well after working through your initial list of fixes. I sure hope we have the same experience. We researched Grand Design as much as possible prior to purchasing and one thing I liked was how great everyone said their customer service was. Trust me yesterday's interaction with them took me totally by surprise. A simple I'm sorry you have had so many things wrong would have went a long way. I understand that some of our issues were due to components as well, for example the mini fridge not cooling correctly. I really appreciate your response as it seems like your one of the few not beating me up about my post! Trust me we want nothing more than to enjoy our 5th wheel!

 

[Jahna]

We toured the factory not once but twice. Almost to the day a year ago today and just last month. We did not see any robots building any trailer on any line. They are built by and large by human beings.

If you toured any Reflection before purchase you would never have seen any sink covers. While it could be assumed you would get them no where have they been shown to be included because they are not. I know for many people they assumed they would be included but it's not the case.

When we picked up our unit our dealer did mention the table touched the island when the slide was in, they fixed it by moving it back a bit, a bit to far as we later found out when we tried to pull the blind down but hey pulled a few screws and we fixed it up just fine. We also had a pendant light fall and break during transit to the dealer, they mentioned it and had it replaced within two days. Our unit landed on their lot on Sunday and we took it Wednesday. Our dealer did a great job on their PDI.

We did have an issue with a defective rim, Grand Design and our dealer has been behind us all the way in dealing with the importer and getting the issue addressed and fixed. All customer service support has been totally amazing from the factory.

I also see some light around the door but we had buckets of rain hitting the door and we had our trailer through a truck/trailer wash with not one drop of water inside the unit. It's not even an issue.

We had the infamous shower leak, we were aware of that due to this forum and a tube of cheap caulked fixed it. As it does not seem to be a problem on the forum as of late I think Grand Design may have addressed it during construction, as they did with the awning problem and fridge failure. Grand Design seems to pay attention to forums and common issues, addressing them at the factory as fast as they can. They seem to be very proactive in their approach as compared to some other manufacturer forums my husband and I follow.

I know that these RV's are a huge investment of time and money. Ourselves we took over two years and a trip to several factories before making our choice on Grand Design, in fact even after the first factory tour last October we only bought in June because we were still agonizing over "are we making the right choice". Truth be told not one RV is 100% problem free. They are rolling houses. Very very few units come off the line perfect. Humans make them and we ain't perfect yet. Sorry to say but attitude goes along way in getting support. For your part, most of your issues are cosmetic, one your assumption and lack of homework, one a third party supplier (the outside fridge) and two should have been caught during the dealer's PDI so you should have never seen it. I don't see anything that warrants a free ac unit for compensation, personally I would get my back up as a customer rep if someone demanded that of me.

 

[WhittleBurner]

GM, sorry you have had issues. Others that have had issues had great results getting them fixed. Maybe you caught
CS on a bad day. Just curious, do you remember who you spoke with?
By the way, welcome to the forum.
We had a few minor issues at pick up but all were taken care of by our dealer. Our biggest issue was getting locked inside
The lock was replaced.

 

[Steve and Cill]

Welcome to the forum GMRetired, sorry you are having issues with your new Reflection.

Normally when someone comes on a forum and their very first post down grades the product, company, etc; you have to believe they are just trolling, but I am happy you replied to some of our members about their responses. That makes me believe you are not trolling. Please understand that the majority of the members here love their Solitudes, Reflections, and Momentums and have had issues with them. As the Moderator of this forum I read every thread and post, you are the first person that has had something negative to say about Grand Designs' Customer Service. We all have dealt with the "company" and have nothing but good things to say about the treatment and service we have received and for that reason, we find it hard to believe that you were treated the way you said you were by Grand Design Customer Service. Notice, I said hard to believe, not that you were not treated that way. My only suggestion would be contact Grand Design Customer Service and ask to speak to a supervisor and let them know how you were treated and what was said. I for one would really like to know how your follow up with them goes.

Steve

 

[1970kw]

We have had a punch list of items as well, but most of them were minor and I repaired them myself. It would have taken longer to take to the dealer than the few minutes each repair took to complete. Yes, one of them was the shower! I expected it as I had read about it on the forum, 20 min. fix! We had a few communication issues with our dealer, but I contacted GD customer service directly and Dean has been very helpful. After a few pictures to verify the defective items, the parts were in the mail. I have been impressed with the factory support so far. The sink covers would be nice, but our dealer explained they weren't available in the Reflection as they are in the Solitude. One of the small negatives to go with the many positives! All in all, this is our 4th Rv, and we wouldn't give up our Reflection. Second thought, when we get closer to retirement I might trade it for a Solitude!

 

[GMRetired]

Welcome to the forum GMRetired, sorry you are having issues with your new Reflection.

Normally when someone comes on a forum and their very first post down grades the product, company, etc; you have to believe they are just trolling, but I am happy you replied to some of our members about their responses. That makes me believe you are not trolling. Please understand that the majority of the members here love their Solitudes, Reflections, and Momentums and have had issues with them. As the Moderator of this forum I read every thread and post, you are the first person that has had something negative to say about Grand Designs' Customer Service. We all have dealt with the "company" and have nothing but good things to say about the treatment and service we have received and for that reason, we find it hard to believe that you were treated the way you said you were by Grand Design Customer Service. Notice, I said hard to believe, not that you were not treated that way. My only suggestion would be contact Grand Design Customer Service and ask to speak to a supervisor and let them know how you were treated and what was said. I for one would really like to know how your follow up with them goes.

Steve

Hi Steve,

In my post after I stated my issues I asked if anyone else had experienced issues or if they had any advice for me. I certainly was not trolling. I was just seeking advice. I was pretty frustrated with all that has not been right with our 5th wheel and with how my conversation went with customer service. I understand that these RV's are built to travel down the road at 70 miles per hour, as one person posted, and that mistakes happen during production. However, I don't think it's too much to ask when spending this kind of money that the 5th wheel should be in pretty decent shape when you go to pick it up. It has taken two weeks to get all the repairs taken care of and that seems rather long to me. Trust me I would have loved for my first post to be about how happy we were with our 5th wheel instead of all the problems we have had. TucsonJim was one of the few people on the forum that replied to me with any kind of helpful advice and I appreciate that. A few so much as said I was making things up or not telling the truth which I didn't appreciate nor deserve. I have received a message from Janice from customer service asking for my VIN and phone number. My wife also sent Mr Fenech a lengthy message this morning. Hopefully they will listen to our feedback and we can have a better customer service experience. For the one who posted my list of complaints didn't warrant a free AC unit, trust me I didn't ask for that until after the rep already had me riled up from his poor attitude. Also, a lot of people have posted that they too have had issues on delivery, that just doesn't seem ok to me. Yes, you all had better customer service experience than us but why should we even be having these issues in the first place?!

 

[GMRetired]

We have had a punch list of items as well, but most of them were minor and I repaired them myself. It would have taken longer to take to the dealer than the few minutes each repair took to complete. Yes, one of them was the shower! I expected it as I had read about it on the forum, 20 min. fix! We had a few communication issues with our dealer, but I contacted GD customer service directly and Dean has been very helpful. After a few pictures to verify the defective items, the parts were in the mail. I have been impressed with the factory support so far. The sink covers would be nice, but our dealer explained they weren't available in the Reflection as they are in the Solitude. One of the small negatives to go with the many positives! All in all, this is our 4th Rv, and we wouldn't give up our Reflection. Second thought, when we get closer to retirement I might trade it for a Solitude!

Our dealer called to tell us they ordered the sink covers because they were missing. The customer service rep from Grand Design did tell me the sink covers were ordered the same day as the mini fridge. He told me that prior to our conversation going down-hill. Glad to hear you like your Reflection, we are looking forward to finally getting ours tomorrow.

 

[1970kw]

Our dealer called to tell us they ordered the sink covers because they were missing. The customer service rep from Grand Design did tell me the sink covers were ordered the same day as the mini fridge. He told me that prior to our conversation going down-hill. Glad to hear you like your Reflection, we are looking forward to finally getting ours tomorrow.

GMRetired,
Hope your experience gets better. We have been frustrated a bit too, but most of the issue was lack of communication with our dealer and their service department. I'm sure once you get a trip or two under your belt away from the campground at the dealership you will love your Reflection too. Good luck tomorrow!

 

[RetiredVagabond]

GMRetired,
I too hope your experience gets better. I have had a few issues since my delivery in February of this year. Some were due to my learning curve as this was my first 5th wheel. Grand Design has always been prompt to resolve even simple issues. The dealers and service centers have caused most of the confusion and I have been to three over my travels in California, Arizona and Montana. The dealers did fix all the issues, it just took many calls and several drop offs for each occurrence since I have been traveling almost the entire time. Also the dealers required payment upfront, then credited as they received payment from GD. My last dealer I am still waiting for a check of over $300 in warranty repairs. (checks in the mail) Bottom line my experience with my Reflection has been great, the quality great, Grand Design support also great. Wish you the best in your travels in your new Reflection once the bugs are worked out.

 

[Boomer]

GMretired,
We have had our reflection 303 for 9 months and have had a number of issues, some minor some a bit more serious. I can tell you that in all my dealings with GD customer service I have had only positive responses with helpful advice and great follow-up. I concur with Tusconjim once I got these issues resolved I have had no further problems. We now have over 7,000 miles on our unit and are on the road now as a matter of fact, we have had no problems on our last three trips. These are like our houses, we don't run to the builder whenever something goes wrong or breaks. I have found that our unit is very well built and all of the problems we have had have been with OEM equipment. Hope you get your unit soon with no problems.

 

[GMRetired]

Today we picked up our Reflection 29RS from the dealer and they had all our issues fixed. We also received a call from Jerry McCarthy, Vice President of service at Grand Design. He spoke at length with my wife and he apologized greatly for how the customer service rep spoke with me. Jerry assured her that matter would be taken care of as they always strive to have happy customers and they take customer service very seriously. My wife explained to him that my initial call was just to inform them that we were worried about the problems and we just wanted them to be aware. She also described how the conversation went downhill quickly. He gave us his direct number to call if we have anymore issues and assured us that he would see to it that everything was addressed. He asked who said they wouldn’t reimburse for the second ac unit, was it the dealer or Grand Design. She told him the Grand Design service rep. Jerry said “Well that’s the least we could do for your inconvenience.” My wife reinforced that none of this was about getting reimbursed, we were just worried about if we had made a mistake in choosing to purchase from Grand Design, that we just wanted to know that if we had more issues that they would be there for us and willing to help. Jerry said, you pay a lot of money for your RV and it is not unreasonable for you to expect it to be in great shape when you take delivery. He apologized that the unit left the factory without everything being right. Jerry’s customer service skills were top notch and nothing like what I had experienced with my first call. Oh, and for the robots he said they do have automation on the fiberglass or lamination line. We feel a lot better after talking to Jerry and we are looking forward to our first camping trip with our Reflection.