New owner "PDI" or simple "Walk through"? What to expect?

[swmurray]

Hi:

We recently purchased a new Solitude and was totally underwhelmed by the dealer's "walk through" when picking up the RV. Fortunately we found a few issues, but nothing like sixgunz noted in his own thread.

So my questions for the group, and hopefully GD, is what should be expected and covered in a walk through? Is this really a "PDI" by the owner?
How much further should we push the issue?

Here's our recent experience (as first RV purchase in January 2020):
We purchased the unit and went through the initial sales agreement and scheduled the delivery date and PDI for 2 weeks later. We had noted some issues when looking at the unit. During this sales event we called it a "PDI" and were never corrected. We noted the unit had been on their site for 8-9 months so specifically asked that the unit be gone over to ensure the annual maintenance was done. They promised the items noted would be fixed and the unit completely serviced. Unfortunately we did not get these promises in writing.

When we arrived for the PDI (told to allow 2-3 hrs) we were left waiting for 30-40 minutes. Then we had to complete the final purchase paperwork before seeing the unit. At this paperwork we were asked to sign off on a PDI to start the GD warranty BEFORE even seeing the RV! We refused this paper, but did complete the rest of the purchase. We waited further for the PDI / walk through.

Finally they said the person scheduled for our walk through was tied up and another person would walk us through the unit. They were completely unfamiliar with the unit as we more familiar with the unit and the functions. The checklist was very simplistic and only a checkoff that the basic systems worked. Based on the information from this forum we expected a more detailed forum/checklist. We were informed by the dealer that the PDI is only an internal document between GD and the dealer. They only do a "walk through" for the owner.

We balked and wanted to see confirmation that the PDI shown on the warranty sign-off was complete and the annual maintenance shown in the GD Owner's manual was up-to-date. The business guy who wanted the warranty sign-off had no idea what was done by their service department and service coordinator said they do PDI's with the manufacturer, but only use their own forms, not GD's. Finally the service coordinator agreed to dig up
their "internal PDI" and the most recent service check items. The business guy sent us "what they have". Their internal PDI was completed in August 2019 and appears reasonably complete as compared to the GD form. Their pre-delivery walk through for us (January 2020) is simply a cross check that the systems work - no annual maintenance items.

We found a furnace air discharge issue (pantry floor was so hot it melted the poly bristles on a broom!). The dealer was very quick to take ownership of this issue and has parts on order.

So should we push the dealer to complete the maintenance issues or do them ourselves? Most are minor, but concerned how to address issues which might be significant safety or warranty issues without being properly maintained or checked.


And, does GD, who advertise on "quality checks" have a structured PDI or walk through hand-off to the owner, or is it a dealer's choice?

Thanks!

swmurray

 

[livinthelife]

Hi:

We recently purchased a new Solitude and was totally underwhelmed by the dealer's "walk through" when picking up the RV. Fortunately we found a few issues, but nothing like sixgunz noted in his own thread.

So my questions for the group, and hopefully GD, is what should be expected and covered in a walk through? Is this really a "PDI" by the owner?
How much further should we push the issue?

Here's our recent experience (as first RV purchase in January 2020):
We purchased the unit and went through the initial sales agreement and scheduled the delivery date and PDI for 2 weeks later. We had noted some issues when looking at the unit. During this sales event we called it a "PDI" and were never corrected. We noted the unit had been on their site for 8-9 months so specifically asked that the unit be gone over to ensure the annual maintenance was done. They promised the items noted would be fixed and the unit completely serviced. Unfortunately we did not get these promises in writing.

When we arrived for the PDI (told to allow 2-3 hrs) we were left waiting for 30-40 minutes. Then we had to complete the final purchase paperwork before seeing the unit. At this paperwork we were asked to sign off on a PDI to start the GD warranty BEFORE even seeing the RV! We refused this paper, but did complete the rest of the purchase. We waited further for the PDI / walk through.

Finally they said the person scheduled for our walk through was tied up and another person would walk us through the unit. They were completely unfamiliar with the unit as we more familiar with the unit and the functions. The checklist was very simplistic and only a checkoff that the basic systems worked. Based on the information from this forum we expected a more detailed forum/checklist. We were informed by the dealer that the PDI is only an internal document between GD and the dealer. They only do a "walk through" for the owner.

We balked and wanted to see confirmation that the PDI shown on the warranty sign-off was complete and the annual maintenance shown in the GD Owner's manual was up-to-date. The business guy who wanted the warranty sign-off had no idea what was done by their service department and service coordinator said they do PDI's with the manufacturer, but only use their own forms, not GD's. Finally the service coordinator agreed to dig up
their "internal PDI" and the most recent service check items. The business guy sent us "what they have". Their internal PDI was completed in August 2019 and appears reasonably complete as compared to the GD form. Their pre-delivery walk through for us (January 2020) is simply a cross check that the systems work - no annual maintenance items.

We found a furnace air discharge issue (pantry floor was so hot it melted the poly bristles on a broom!). The dealer was very quick to take ownership of this issue and has parts on order.

So should we push the dealer to complete the maintenance issues or do them ourselves? Most are minor, but concerned how to address issues which might be significant safety or warranty issues without being properly maintained or checked.


And, does GD, who advertise on "quality checks" have a structured PDI or walk through hand-off to the owner, or is it a dealer's choice?

Thanks!

swmurray

A PDI should take as long as YOU want it to. It's suggested that you check everything. Take a tester to check that outlets work. Make sure the windows and door all open (and close). Do the curtains work? Do all doors/cabinets/drawers closed properly? do all the on/off switches work? Did the put water in the tank so you could check the water pump? Do any drains/plumbing show leaks?

And on and on.

You did well not signing off on the PDI before actually doing it.

I'm not sure where you are in the actual purchase, but I wouldn't accept any rig that had things that needed to be corrected. I'd be telling them "fix it or I'm not buying".

 

[CoChris-MGRV]

[MENTION=28440]swmurray[/MENTION], the answer to your questions is it depends on the dealer and varies greatly. It is really up to the buyer to let the dealer know what they expect and not accept the unit until your expectations are met. Again, depending on the dealer you may or may not have much pull after you accept the unit. You will always have the most power over the dealer to met your expectations before you accept the trailer.

There are many good PDI threads and lists (see the reference library on this site) that go into personal experience and suggestions. You can find them with the search function in the upper right cornere of each page. In our case, at the recommendation of others here, I sent a PDI check list (multiple pages) to the dealer a couple of weeks before we picked up/walked through our ordered trailer and specifically stated that we would not be accepting the trailer until we had completed the list to our satisfaction. I also specified that we would require 50A shore power and water to be available. When we arrived at the appointed time, we also had to wait (45 min?) until our assigned person was available for a walk through. As this was our first trailer (our salesman knew that, but the walk through person was not aware prior to meeting us) we had a lot of questions. The walk through was so-so. Lots of good information, many missed items (not pointed out or explained), some questions answered and some incorrect information (that I know was wrong) was given and a few things (towards the end) clearly "made up" and him wanting to move on. We where then "offered" to met with the finance person, sign papers and them we could look over the trailer all we wanted. I flat so NO. I would only talk to the finance guy & sign papers AFTER we have inspect the trailer and all items corrected to our satisfaction EVEN IF WE HAD TO COME BACK ANOTHER DAY. They backed off and we spent 6 hours looking over the trailer (and did not complete our list). The good news is while we were going over our PDI list, the service manager came out, introduced himself and said our walk through person told him we had some questions. The service manager gave us a lot of time, answered all of questions, gave us some additional (helpful information) and corrected a number of "incorrect" answers we had been given at walk through. We went and got a late lunch while they fixed the few issues we found, nothing major (but some obviously overlooked and hoping we would not find). When we came back, we reinspected our puck list and they had been addressed (some we found out later had been poorly done and I fixed later - mostly seals/sealing). We went in and sign the papers. By the time we left, they had closed for the day (they had pulled our trailer outside the fence and the gates were locked) .

I am glad we held our ground. When we took the trailer back in the fall for warrantee punch list (a lot of little items and a couple of more involved ones), it was a horrible experience with the dealer (same one we purchased from). Took them 5 months to complete. Many lies (typically blaming GD from delay in approval - not true). Many items list as no trouble found or could not duplicate ( all but one I was able to easily find and correct in about a hour of work). They nicely filled the propane bottles at no cost - and made sure we knew it (one was completely full when we dropped it off, the other about 1/2 full - so not a lot of propane), then ran the furnace for multiple days (middle of winter in Colorado) so we had less propane when we picked up then when we dropped off. These I place on the dealer, not GD. Grand Design was very nice, gave me good (status) information when I called them during this process but also made it clear that it was between the dealer and myself, there was little they could do.

Yikes, this turned into way to long of a novel, but that is our story. Some dealers are very good and will work with customers after the sale. I hope yours is one of them.

Good luck and enjoy your trailer
Chris

 

[bertschb]

We are lucky in that our dealer (Blue Dog RV in Redmond, OR) does a great job preparing their RV's prior to customer pickup. What we did with our first two 5th wheels and plan to do with our next one in March is schedule a time to do our own personal walk through with no dealer employees present. What my wife and I do is basically push, pull, turn on or slide anything that moves or runs. Since our dealer does such a great job prepping, this usually takes us a couple hours. We usually find one or two minor items that can be addressed in minutes. We then do the formal PDI with the dealer's employee.

When we bought our second 5th wheel I told the dealer and PDI guy that we were familiar with all the systems since we had purchased another Grand Design unit two years earlier and didn't need him to explain how everything worked. He explained everything anyway. I reminded him several times during the PDI that I was very familiar with the systems because I already owned a GD RV and spent winters in it. He didn't take the hint and kept explaining in detail how everything worked. This button turns the fireplace on. If you push this button on the remote, the flames get bigger. If you push this button, the temp goes down. This button turns the fan up. This button turns the fan down......Ugg. That made what should have been a 45 minute "formal PDI" a three hour ordeal. Please stop! I already know how the thermostat works! I used it every day for months on end...

The bottom line is you need to check everything yourself and make sure you are 100% OK with the RV prior to signing any paperwork. Since it typically takes weeks to get work done on an RV, I wouldn't sign paperwork and take delivery of an RV until all PDI work was completed.

 

[ckreef]

Saturday we bought our first TT and it was a much better experience than what you described. Our appointment was for 8 am this past Saturday. We were running a little late and our salesman called us at 8:05 to make sure everything was OK. I told him we just a few blocks away. At 8:10 we pulled in. Our salesman and PDI person were waiting at the gate.

We drove straight to the TT and immediately started the PDI. They had a checklist but me and the wife came with our own checklist. There PDI person was very thorough. First we went around the outside and he explained/showed us everything. We then went inside and we went through everything. He was once again very thorough. As all this was happening my wife was checking off the appropriate items on our checklist. Lastly both me and the PDI guy went up on the roof to inspect it.

Once all that was done we looked over our checklist and inspected the items still left unchecked. The PDI guy hung with us the whole time. There were 4 minor issues found. While these were being fixed we went inside to the finance guy to sign the paperwork.

After signing we then rechecked the fixed items. The gave us a quick class on using the hitch and brake controller. Salesman took a picture with us and we were on our way. A little over 4 hours in total and left feeling really good about the entire process.

I think this all depends on how good the dealer is. I was lucky to find a small family run dealer that had been in business for 50 or so years. Our salesman even contacted us later that evening to make sure we got the TT home safe and sound.

I don't think I could have asked for more.

 

[swmurray]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. My lessons learned.... that might help others.

1) Don't sign papers before PDI (we were told we had to)
2) Do get sales promises in writing for unit prep and PDI expectations (don't accept the salesperson's word that all GD recommended prep and maintenance will be done prior to owner's PDI)
3) if the Dealer's PDI rep is unfamiliar with the unit stop and get someone else. We spent 3+ hours on our walk through then, when we went back in we met the person who was originally planned for our walk through. She asked a bunch of questions of us to ensure our walk through was complete and explained some things that demonstrated her knowledge of the unit and would have been very helpful to us at the time. Unfortunately it was closing time and we had to depart.
4) consider getting a knowledgeable friend to accompany us (we heard that's what another couple did, and that's why our original walk-through rep was not available!)
5) Use your own PDI list (we combined ones from this forum and from the Grand Design FB groups). We completed most all of the lists ourselves while the dealer rep stood back and learned. Take your time and don't be rushed.

Thanks again for the feedback!

 

[AustexGP]

CoChris is correct when he says the PDI should take as long as you need. May not need as long if you're a 2nd or 3rd time owner, but for a first time owner the PDI should take several hours and be completed before any papers are signed.

When we purchased our Grand Design from ExploreUSA in Sequin we were interested in the 5th wheel and I went down during the week to review the unit. During the mid week review the 5th wheel was dirty (as I expected - winter in Texas means lots of pollen and dust) a little sawdust in the drawers, a few of the drawers would not stay shut and there was a scratch on a drawer front. No problem I was just looking.

Went home a presented the 5th wheel to the DW and we decided to take a family look (son, daughter-in-law, daughter, twin grand daughters, DW and I) so I called the salesman and told him we would be there Saturday for a look-see. We got there and the 5th wheel was clean, drawers vacuumed, opening drawers repaired and the scratch was re-stained. The salesman gave us a mini-PDI in explaining the new features like the water hookup, 2 black tanks, auto-level worked and a few other things. We decided on the 5th wheel and left the down payment and started the financing. Made arrangements to get the 5th wheel 2 weeks after the family tour (had to order and install the 5th wheel hitch).

Came down for the PDI with the 5th wheel hooked up to 50amp power, water connected and working, hot water heater ready and all lights working. We went through a complete PDI from outside, to underneath, to inside. We closed the slides, opened the slides, laid in the bunks, pulled out the tri-fold sofa and laid on it, laid on our bed. Unhooked the city water and filled the fresh water tanks. We then went into the finance office and completed the deal. Since our hitch had not arrived, we made another appointment to take it home.

Finally got the hitch and went back to ExploreUSA for final delivery. The PDI guy checked out our hitch and adjusted. Then we backed up to the hitch a few times until we knew what to look for. Hooked up the trailer lights to the truck and we had no trailer brakes. After checking they had a Chevrolet dealer bring us a new fuse with no charge to us. The PDI then went to how to raise the levelers and do a tow test and then how to unhook and level the trailer. Then we hooked up and drove around the lot 4 or 5 times and backed up the 5th wheel 2 or 3 times (I was much better backing up at ExploreUSA than at the RV parks).

Do I think that ExploreUSA went above and beyond - Yes. But they took care of us without any pressure to sign the papers or get the unit off the lot after signing the papers. The fact that they took care of the little stuff prior to our "family" visit just showed that they wanted our business. But overall this was how I think a complete PDI should be conducted with the dealer and new owner.

 

[swmurray]

i was fine checking out the interior stuff - did all the outlets, ran all the appliances, ran all the slides, etc. No significant issue discovered there. had to show the rep how to use the stove and oven! Also ok with the general exterior - roof seals, doors and door frame caulking, etc. We found a few minor cracks in the roof rubber sealant around the antenna, and gaps in the caulking around the pass-thru access door frames. These were noted and on the punch list. The entry door and screen door had latch issues - again noted and on punch list. Tires were at pressure and manufactured in 2018. All in, there were 19 items on the list.

But I was not clear on the axles and suspension checks. I'm not familiar with the lube points on the trailer and the dealer rep was not willing to go over that area with me (stating this is how they come from the factory). I pressed for the promised maintenance records and PDI. I got some, but no clear indication of when the last time these were checked. I also wanted to test the safety alarms. The dealer rep didn't know how, and neither did we. Guess we will replace batteries and read up on how to test.

One of the reference material I used was the Required maintenance section of the Solitude Owner's manual (pp 176-177 in our book. I asked when these items were done (remember this was built in April 2019 and sat on the dealers lot for 8 months - through a Texas summer and a wet winter.). Essentially everyone at the dealership gave me a blank stare as if they had never seen or considered this list before.

Just to grump....the dealer rep at walk through told me the black and gray valves were "closed" when they were pulled out. Push in to "open" the valves!

Anyway..... just venting now..

So how does one check the axle and suspension torques and grease routines at a PDI? (I plan to search the appropriate sub-forums as tie permits)

 

[SGT ROC]

My dealer was very good during the PDI. Much like Brian above - I was very familiar with how things worked. Although from having read and re-read the owner manual that I downloaded. The PDI guy still went over everything. While he and I were doing the PDI, DW was checking out all of the knobs, pulls and anything that move - to make sure it did move properly. The PDI was only about an hour long, which was longer than I wanted to take, but apparently much shorter that most people get. Still - we didn't find anything wrong - even minor stuff. I did find a couple of things after our second trip when we got back. Both Minor and easily fixed by me In about 15 minutes. One thing though - we did sign the papers before we did the PDI. Probably won't do that again, but we had a good experience. We'll be going to a rally in Sept about 10 minutes from their dealership, and they will be at the rally. Any issues that arise between now and then can get addressed then.

 

[Jerryr]

I refused to even meet with the finance closer or sign any paperwork until we completed our PDI. I also insisted in writing on the sales contract that all brake drums were to be pulled and checked for leaky seals with pictures. When I got there at 9am they had not pulled the brake drums. After the PDI they pulled the RV into a service bay and pulled the drums. 2 of the 4 drums and brakes were contaminated with grease and they replaced everything with new while I watched.

They completed all items found on the PDI and then I went and signed closing documents at 6 pm that evening.

Then we spent the night in the RV. The next morning we discovered water dripping in the basement. A tech was called immediately and found that shower door was leaking. He resealed that door. Also the RV entry door was difficult to close. They towed the RV to their Jody shop and “adjusted” the door and door frame and brough5 it back an hour later.

We then decided to spend a second night to make sure there wasn’t anything else. That night was event free and we drove away.

 

[CoChris-MGRV]

...... So how does one check the axle and suspension torques and grease routines at a PDI? (I plan to search the appropriate sub-forums as tie permits)

Torque wrench, tire pressure gauge, flashlight and rags/paper towels (all of which I brought with me ). Seriously, when we purchased our trailer, Grand design had just switched the Solitude axles from Lippert to Dexter and the Lippert greased brake issue where still fresh on everyone's mind (at least on mine). As part of our purchase agreement, I required the dealer to pull all four wheels and inspect the brakes and seals for any signs of grease issues. I also required them to grease the suspension wet bolts. Because of "insurance reasons" I was not allowed in the shop to observe the checks/work, but I settled for pictures (all looked good). I also talked to the tech who did the work at our PDI and felt comfortable he he done the work and done it correctly. I did check all lug nuts and tire pressures and observe the fresh (and different color) grease coming out of each bushing during our PDI. There are limits to what you can check, but you can get an overall feel for the unit. As for what is "routine maintenance" or what is required for warranties, I have never gotten a straight answer from the dealer and asking the same question different ways I often get conflicting answers from the same service writer.

Chris

 

[swmurray]

I refused to even meet with the finance closer or sign any paperwork until we completed our PDI. I also insisted in writing on the sales contract that all brake drums were to be pulled and checked for leaky seals with pictures. When I got there at 9am they had not pulled the brake drums. After the PDI they pulled the RV into a service bay and pulled the drums. 2 of the 4 drums and brakes were contaminated with grease and they replaced everything with new while I watched.

They completed all items found on the PDI and then I went and signed closing documents at 6 pm that evening.

Then we spent the night in the RV. The next morning we discovered water dripping in the basement. A tech was called immediately and found that shower door was leaking. He resealed that door. Also the RV entry door was difficult to close. They towed the RV to their Jody shop and “adjusted” the door and door frame and brough5 it back an hour later.

We then decided to spend a second night to make sure there wasn’t anything else. That night was event free and we drove away.

Thank you folks. Clearly I have a lot to learn about our RV, as well a being better prepared at the dealer :$

 

[frank4711]

We just picked up last Thursday ... dealer was new to us and had not even been there ... bought on the phone and thru e mails ... sales man Mike was exceptional answering questions and there was no pressure at all ... set date to pick up and I set some expectations with Mike and was contacted by our delivery coordinator and passed along my request and he agreed ... then the finance/paperwork guy called and he said come in first so I can prepare you paperwork he needed ID's ins and registration and was clear we would not sign for unit before PDI was complete and we were satisfied .... upon arrival we met Mike salesman and he introduced us to delivery person and a nice lady that took us were we needed to go... this was our 3rd PDI and 3rd 5th wheel so we had a good idea what to look for ... PDI tech was smart and did not rush us ... made a complete list of items to be addressed ... took us to there cafe were the serve free lunch all customers on site ... was the employees favorite lunch because ribs were on the menu .... one of the main items required ordering parts but would not stop me from taking the new camper home so I asked if the work could be done at a location only 40 minutes from my house they said of course and within 20 minutes I had a phone call and e mail confirming my appointment ... we signed paperwork and pulled it home ... there was a item on the list that was missed and I called and Mike confirmed the other dealer would look at it when we were there this week ... it was a loud/rattle in the exhaust fan well my neighbor was over today to check it out and I asked him what he thought the noise was and he pushed up on the Micro and it stopped he said get me a shortPhillips head screwdriver he open the storage above and it is fixed .... the dealer did a good job and I feel lucky to have them working for us ....

 

[Aaron123]

We just picked up our 2020 solitude 380FL today and it took about 2 hours for our PDI. This is our 3 coach so we knew the things to look out for. Our dealership did not rush as at all and was happy to do everything for wanted. Inspect roof etc. I would be very leery of any dealership who is trying to rush you or not have you look at your coach before signing everything. I hope it all works out.