Newby to this whole new world

[bcurrie100]

Hello all,

Been looking at this site for awhile and registered recently.

First, want to thank everyone for your time in posting answers. It takes your precious time and I appreciate it.

Second, as the title indicates, we are brand new to this world, but it does not mean I have not been doing my research. We have gone to the RV shows for several years and I have read a lot about each model and make of heavy duty trucks. We are not in the market quite yet, but are strongly leaning toward the GD 310gk (though would like to see an Alliance 310RL, they look almost identical and I have at least some understanding of the relationship there). It is just my wife and me, and our two pups (medium size dogs), so we do not want or need anything too large, plus we do not want size to be much of an issue. We also have no tow vehicle yet. I have done multiple searches and either am using the wrong tag words, or cannot find the information (probably the former, as I doubt my questions are new).

1) I understand that a DRW offers some great benefits over a SRW tow vehicle, including stability and increased payload. While it does seem largely a matter of opinion of which is preferable, the stability and payload are factual. HOWEVER, my question revolves around those who tow with a SRW or have towed with both, when it is windy, how would you categorize the stability of the SRW (particularly those who tow a heavier 5'er)? Should one not do so if there are high wind warnings (perhaps not even with a DRW?), and how windy is windy when one starts noticing a difference? It seems like a number of people tow with the SRW without major issues, though granted they might have to watch the pin weight extra carefully.

2) I have seen a number of people saying the DRWs are pretty bad in the snow. We plan to use our 5'er year round, maybe in the snow, maybe just traveling through the snow. The tow vehicle will be our main transportation wherever we are camped at. When in the snow, should one have 4WD DRW just as your transportation vehicle (i.e., just sightseeing-type activities)? (We live in northern Utah so snow when be inevitable at certain times.)

3) Is there a reason to have solar and a generator? I realize they do not perform the exact same functions, but they overlap quite a bit. Those that have both, what are your thoughts, or for those that have just one or the other, do you wish you now had the other?

4) If you live in the norther States and typically get below freezing in the winter, but utilize your camper even in the winter, if freezing temperatures are forecasted do you still winterize even though you might take it out three weeks from your last trip? I know the GD Solitude line has great insulation, so am not sure how this impacts my question.

5) Finally, I know this is solely opinion, but I am interested in yours as surely there are some people that look at all the details as I do. Not having a tow vehicle, depending on deals we get, the cost between tow vehicle and RV will be ~$200,000. Obviously, there is plenty of maintenance to keep up on, just like owning a house (I can do a lot myself). I know this would be greatly user dependent, but has anyone averaged out their maintenance and repairs costs over the years you have owned your camper? While having an RV, especially having two dogs, would have many benefits, ~200,000 + regular maintenance costs would go a long way for a number of years for similar vacations (just without the RV). i know there are no cost savings to having an RV over going the hotel route, so is it all about having your own place (not minimizing that, just asking is that what it basically comes down to)? Any thoughts on this topic beyond just the costs would be greatly appreciated. Again, I know this will be heavily opinioned based, but I just want to see if people out there in My Grand RV world have things I have not thought about.

All the best and many thanks

Brian
1960s Tonka Truck

 

[Gregors]

Hello all,

Been looking at this site for awhile and registered recently.

First, want to thank everyone for your time in posting answers. It takes your precious time and I appreciate it.

Second, as the title indicates, we are brand new to this world, but it does not mean I have not been doing my research. We have gone to the RV shows for several years and I have read a lot about each model and make of heavy duty trucks. We are not in the market quite yet, but are strongly leaning toward the GD 310gk (though would like to see an Alliance 310RL, they look almost identical and I have at least some understanding of the relationship there). It is just my wife and me, and our two pups (medium size dogs), so we do not want or need anything too large, plus we do not want size to be much of an issue. We also have no tow vehicle yet. I have done multiple searches and either am using the wrong tag words, or cannot find the information (probably the former, as I doubt my questions are new).

1) I understand that a DRW offers some great benefits over a SRW tow vehicle, including stability and increased payload. While it does seem largely a matter of opinion of which is preferable, the stability and payload are factual. HOWEVER, my question revolves around those who tow with a SRW or have towed with both, when it is windy, how would you categorize the stability of the SRW (particularly those who tow a heavier 5'er)? Should one not do so if there are high wind warnings (perhaps not even with a DRW?), and how windy is windy when one starts noticing a difference? It seems like a number of people tow with the SRW without major issues, though granted they might have to watch the pin weight extra carefully.

2) I have seen a number of people saying the DRWs are pretty bad in the snow. We plan to use our 5'er year round, maybe in the snow, maybe just traveling through the snow. The tow vehicle will be our main transportation wherever we are camped at. When in the snow, should one have 4WD DRW just as your transportation vehicle (i.e., just sightseeing-type activities)? (We live in northern Utah so snow when be inevitable at certain times.)

3) Is there a reason to have solar and a generator? I realize they do not perform the exact same functions, but they overlap quite a bit. Those that have both, what are your thoughts, or for those that have just one or the other, do you wish you now had the other?

4) If you live in the norther States and typically get below freezing in the winter, but utilize your camper even in the winter, if freezing temperatures are forecasted do you still winterize even though you might take it out three weeks from your last trip? I know the GD Solitude line has great insulation, so am not sure how this impacts my question.

5) Finally, I know this is solely opinion, but I am interested in yours as surely there are some people that look at all the details as I do. Not having a tow vehicle, depending on deals we get, the cost between tow vehicle and RV will be ~$200,000. Obviously, there is plenty of maintenance to keep up on, just like owning a house (I can do a lot myself). I know this would be greatly user dependent, but has anyone averaged out their maintenance and repairs costs over the years you have owned your camper? While having an RV, especially having two dogs, would have many benefits, ~200,000 + regular maintenance costs would go a long way for a number of years for similar vacations (just without the RV). i know there are no cost savings to having an RV over going the hotel route, so is it all about having your own place (not minimizing that, just asking is that what it basically comes down to)? Any thoughts on this topic beyond just the costs would be greatly appreciated. Again, I know this will be heavily opinioned based, but I just want to see if people out there in My Grand RV world have things I have not thought about.

All the best and many thanks

Brian
1960s Tonka Truck

First off, welcome to the forum and to the RV lifestyle. I will give some personal opinions on your questions and please don't let the RV and Tow vehicle in my signature give you pause. I have owned Many RV's of every style and weight including 5th wheels. We just don't need the size any longer and wanted something easy to weekend in.

For your first question, SRW vs. Dual really depends on your towing capacity needs and weight of the rig. Properly set up and within tow ratings, either will do the job properly. The Dually is worse in the snow because you are essentially forging two paths in the snow, one for the front and inside dual wheels and one for the outside duals. Parking and manuverability become slightly more challenging with a dually, but something most get used to quickly. For this decision, rely on your research and not car dealers or the RV dealer. It is laughable that many car dealers hear "5th Wheel" and automatically assume you need a diesel dually with 30,000 pound towing capacity. It's just not the case. Again, just my opinion here, but I routinely see it suggested that you should only tow 80% of the TV capacity to ensure you are within a safe margin. Think about it, don't you think the Manufacturer has already "de-rated" the overall towing number to ensure they don't get into a lot of towing related warranty issues? Are you technically safer with less weight? Of course, so what is the proper number 80%, 50%? Use common sense, research and your towing needs to determine what is the best set up. Frankly, going way overboard on a TV is not necessary for most people. I compare it to driving a dump truck to the gorcery store. It gets the job done admirably, but is overkill.

In terms of winter camping, it takes a couple days of sub freezing weather for the inside pipes and appliances to freeze. Its a judgement call, a day or two in my opinion you are fine. Three weeks not so much. Winterization is quick, cheap and easy. Its cheap insurance.

For solar and a generator, it depends on how you plan to use it. Lots of boondocking without hookups, both are very nice to have. For an occasional overnight without power, A battery is probably fine, solar helpful and a generator not needed. Longer stints without power and I would have both.

Lastly, in my opinion you can't really compare the cost of RVing with the same amount of money spent on hotels etc. I say this only for the piece of mind and the enjoyment of the RV lifestyle. Campgrounds are not always the best, but at least I know who's been sleeping in my bed, I have my own bathroom, fridge and amenities. Its a choice, and I would choose my trailer over a hotel every time.

Best of luck on your decisions, I hope you find all the answers you are looking for on this forum.

 

[Second Chance]

Welcome to the forum!

1) I have towed a 14K fifth wheel with both SRW and DRW trucks (have only towed our Solitude 310GK-R with the dually) and, yes, there was a noticeable difference. Not only in strong crosswinds (like 45 - 60 MPH in west Texas), but on tight curves on mountain roads. As full-timers, we are loaded to the max with the Solitude and I would not want to pull it with a SRW truck. On the other hand, with the dually I have no excuse when my wife wants to bring something else on board... we're nowhere near the payload max on the truck. (With the SRW truck, she used to tell people I would only let her buy six rolls of toilet paper at a time.) As an aside, when high winds are predicted on a travel day, I make sure my fresh water tank is full. Ballast is a concept left over from my sailing days and an extra 675 lbs. down low over the axles doesn't hurt.

2) [MENTION=51833]Gregors[/MENTION] has addressed the snow situation. We don't drive the truck or tow in/on snow. We have an AWD car for that and there's no use putting our home and its drivetrain at risk.

3) Depends on your planned use. We only have solar (with 400 amp hours of LiFePO4 batteries) - but we don't boondock. We have the solar and battery backup to run the residential refrigerator on travel days or in case of a power outage wherever we're staying. For us, a generator would not be worth the weight, the space it takes up, or the maintenance required.

4) Obviously, our RV is occupied continuously, but you would need to, at a minimum, drain the water heater and tanks, blow the lines with air (and empty the water pump), and pour some antifreeze in the P-traps between uses or you will have freeze damage. The only alternative would be to keep the RV heated by the main furnace whenever temps are below freezing (we shut off the water and set our thermostat to 50 F when we leave the rig unattended in the winter).

5) I don't think you can make a financial case for RVing - at the level you're contemplating - over car/hotel travel. It is a great way, however, to stay gone longer, stay as long as you like at each place, and have your own stuff (for us it's our coffee, our mattress, what we like to eat, and whatever clothing suits our whims that day) without having to unload it into a hotel room each night. Of course, there's a labor offset with hitching, towing, setting up and tearing down utilities, etc., but that's all part of the fun.

Rob

 

[Steven@147]

For our opinion, Rob has replied as we would have with a little difference and we also fulltime.

Welcome to the forum!

1) I have towed a 14K fifth wheel with both SRW and DRW trucks (have only towed our Solitude 310GK-R with the dually) and, yes, there was a noticeable difference. Not only in strong crosswinds (like 45 - 60 MPH in west Texas), but on tight curves on mountain roads. As full-timers, we are loaded to the max with the Solitude and I would not want to pull it with a SRW truck. On the other hand, with the dually I have no excuse when my wife wants to bring something else on board... we're nowhere near the payload max on the truck. (With the SRW truck, she used to tell people I would only let her buy six rolls of toilet paper at a time.) As an aside, when high winds are predicted on a travel day, I make sure my fresh water tank is full. Ballast is a concept left over from my sailing days and an extra 675 lbs. down low over the axles doesn't hurt.
Agree with Rob but we watch our weight as well.

2) [MENTION=51833]Gregors[/MENTION] has addressed the snow situation. We don't drive the truck or tow in/on snow. We have an AWD car for that and there's no use putting our home and its drivetrain at risk.
Also agree here and we will not tow in the snow on possible slick roads or during high wind 30-35 + warning days. We don't need to, we are not that much in a hurry to go anywhere.

3) Depends on your planned use. We only have solar (with 400 amp hours of LiFePO4 batteries) - but we don't boondock. We have the solar and battery backup to run the residential refrigerator on travel days or in case of a power outage wherever we're staying. For us, a generator would not be worth the weight, the space it takes up, or the maintenance required.
We don't have solar and will boondock on occasion for a couple nights. We have an absorption fridge (propane or power). We do have a generator to keep the battery charged and for those occasions when campground power gets cut off. The genny weighs @ 100 pounds and rides in the bed of the truck.

4) Obviously, our RV is occupied continuously, but you would need to, at a minimum, drain the water heater and tanks, blow the lines with air (and empty the water pump), and pour some antifreeze in the P-traps between uses or you will have freeze damage. The only alternative would be to keep the RV heated by the main furnace whenever temps are below freezing (we shut off the water and set our thermostat to 50 F when we leave the rig unattended in the winter).
Absolutely!

5) I don't think you can make a financial case for RVing - at the level you're contemplating - over car/hotel travel. It is a great way, however, to stay gone longer, stay as long as you like at each place, and have your own stuff (for us it's our coffee, our mattress, what we like to eat, and whatever clothing suits our whims that day) without having to unload it into a hotel room each night. Of course, there's a labor offset with hitching, towing, setting up and tearing down utilities, etc., but that's all part of the fun.
Agree with Rob and it's not a one for one deal and it depends on how much you vacation / travel or where you might stay ie..hotel Vs campground. In RVing, there are eventual costs to repair and maintain your truck and RV. For 2022 we spent $2500 on the RV for maintenance and repair, thats new tires, pex plumbing repairs, new converter, and we added a water softener, and other misc stuff like grease, bearings and such. We also spent nearly the same on our truck for 3 new tires, oil and transmission fluid changes and a couple new batteries. $8000 in diesel fuel and nearly $13,000 on campground and electric fees. Now we towed 15,000 miles this year. Now look at our cost numbers for the year + add the cost of purchasing your new truck and RV your figure $200,000. You can take a lot of vacations and travel for that much.

Rob

Steve & Tami

 

[WhittleBurner]

5) I Agree with Rob and it's not a one for one deal and it depends on how much you vacation / travel or where you might stay ie..hotel Vs campground. In RVing, there are eventual costs to repair and maintain your truck and RV. For 2022 we spent $2500 on the RV for maintenance and repair, thats new tires, pex plumbing repairs, new converter, and we added a water softener, and other misc stuff like grease, bearings and such. We also spent nearly the same on our truck for 3 new tires, oil and transmission fluid changes and a couple new batteries. $8000 in diesel fuel and nearly $13,000 on campground and electric fees. Now we towed 15,000 miles this year. Now look at our cost numbers for the year + add the cost of purchasing your new truck and RV your figure $200,000. You can take a lot of vacations and travel for that much.

To add to both Rob and Steve, one of the things we think is important with RVing , knowing who slept in my bed last is worth every penny.
Also you get a different kind of freedom traveling in an RV you cannot duplicate staying in hotels or timeshares

 

[Steven@147]

To add to both Rob and Steve, one of the things we think is important with RVing , knowing who slept in my bed last is worth every penny.
Also you get a different kind of freedom traveling in an RV you cannot duplicate staying in hotels or timeshares

That's really a good point Marcy, "who's been sleeping in my bed"? Also our freedom to go where ever we want and for how ever long we want.

Another side of the story for people to contemplate, Our Daughter, SIL and their family (age 40s two teenagers) has a 2015 5th wheel Montana that they bought really used and repaired /semi restored, but it never left their driveway last year. They wont tow their 5th wheel very far from Southern Ohio because they only have a 250 truck to tow it and can't afford a 350 that it needs. Then they also have a timeshare that they used for only a couple weeks last year and visited Virginia. Why they have both I don't know but seldom have time to really enjoy one or the other or both.

So really it comes down to how much is an individual really going to use whatever method they choose, travel/vacation and (RV or Hotel / Timeshare) or where they want to go (local geographic area or cross country) and for how long.

 

[bcurrie100]

Welcome to the forum!

(With the SRW truck, she used to tell people I would only let her buy six rolls of toilet paper at a time.)

Hilarious!

 

[FT4NOW]

To add to both Rob and Steve, one of the things we think is important with RVing , knowing who slept in my bed last is worth every penny.
Also you get a different kind of freedom traveling in an RV you cannot duplicate staying in hotels or timeshares

Definitely agree with all of this!

My wife is very sensitive to artificial smells and a lot of hotels and Airbnb places love to use those air "fresheners", having our own place eliminates this.

Another huge value for us is we have 4 dogs; it's difficult finding hotels that allow all of them, and many Airbnb locations don't allow pets at all. An alternative is to find someone to watch them, which wasn't too bad with 1 or 2, but again, with 4 dogs, the RV is the best fit.

I also like not being forced out to eat for every meal as you would be in a hotel, or have to pack all the food to bring to an Airbnb. Yes you pack food in the RV, but there are places to put it vice having to load it in the car when taking a road trip or go grocery shopping when you arrive.

 

[Captcolour]

If you buy a new Solitude, you will be getting solar for the 12V fridge and to help keep the battery charged. We don't boondock, but having these just to keep the battery charged, especially when at the dealer for service, would be beneficial. If you will boondock, the amount of factory solar won't be enough so would need more solar/battery and/or a generator.

I would get the 4WD diesel dually. If you can find a F450, will give you maximum maneuverability. Yes you can likely pull the 310 with SWD, but what happens when you start RVing and decide you want more space and want to upgrade to a larger 5th wheel. I'd get the dually now and forget about it!

If you will order the Solitude, get disc brakes and think about IS suspension. If you buy off the lot, then at least have the disc brakes added by Performance Trailer Braking or some other reputable installer.

 

[bcurrie100]

I have started this several times, let me see if I can finish this.

First, thanks to those that responded and let me see if I have this right.

1) Do not tow in the snow unless you have to. Understood, but part of my question is how is the dually with 4WD in the snow on its own. We may be someplace where we have parked the fiver and are just using the dually to travel around to either run errands or just see the sights.

2) Thanks particularly to [MENTION=870]Second Chance[/MENTION] for the extra detail about the wind conditions. And I had not thought about the tighter curves, but that makes sense. I do understand about the added stability and the payload, and as much as I rather not do it, that is the route I will most likely take.

3) The ability to sleep in your own bed and worry less about how long we are gone are two of the prime reasons we have been planning to go this route. And while we only have two dogs and can find many places that accept two dogs, many have requirements that the dogs cannot get up on furniture or the bed with you. Sorry, my dogs always sleep with us. My question about how much money one would spend on a TV and RV had more to do with how can one not help but think of all the vacations they can take with that same money? Not really a comparison vs. my mind goes to that would finance a lot of nice vacations. But I get it.

4) Thanks for the thoughts and detail about how long a rig can be uninhabited in the winter. Guess I just have to become an expert on winterizing it quickly.

5) The generator info has helped me determine that we have no reason to get that until we see how much boondocking we will do.

Thanks, again to all.

 

[MoonShadow_1911]

I have started this several times, let me see if I can finish this.

First, thanks to those that responded and let me see if I have this right.

1) Do not tow in the snow unless you have to. Understood, but part of my question is how is the dually with 4WD in the snow on its own. We may be someplace where we have parked the fiver and are just using the dually to travel around to either run errands or just see the sights.

Duallies suck in the snow, whether towing or not. If you must, it's expensive, put good, aggressive, all terrain tires on; then go buy at least 2 sets of chains. You will likely spend around $400.00 a tire. The problem is finding those kinds of tires with the load range a dually can support. Another problem is you will be replacing tires in 30-40 thousand miles, at best, most likely ever 25k miles.

 

[NB Canada]

Duallies suck in the snow, whether towing or not. If you must, it's expensive, put good, aggressive, all terrain tires on; then go buy at least 2 sets of chains. You will likely spend around $400.00 a tire. The problem is finding those kinds of tires with the load range a dually can support. Another problem is you will be replacing tires in 30-40 thousand miles, at best, most likely ever 25k miles.

We run many f350 and f450 flatbeds for concrete work and get along fine in the snow No chains no winter tires

 

[MoonShadow_1911]

We run many f350 and f450 flatbeds for concrete work and get along fine in the snow No chains no winter tires

I would agree, it's all about taking your time and gaining the experience.

 

[kb0zke]

Welcome, Brian! It sounds like you are working things out one step at a time. I like that.

SRW vs DRW really depends on what you need. A dually will have a greater weight capacity than a single, so let the weight of your prospective trailer drive that decision.

4wd vs 2wd also depends on your needs and wants. We found that when we were shopping for our truck over the past couple of months that 4wd diesels were much more common than 2wd diesels or any sort of gasser. Of course, we bought used, so if you are buying new you can spec it exactly as you want.

If you do plan on driving the truck in snow the 4WD is nice to have. You might also want to take it down one of the 4WD roads in Big Bend, for example. (That's on my list of things to do.) No, you don't take the trailer.

How much solar and generator power you need is up to you. Our previous home (Foretravel MH) had no solar. Our new Reflection has a solar panel. We opted for the Lithium batteries over the agm batteries. We've done no boondocking in the 10 years we've been full-timing, but we're looking forward to trying it. That will probably require at least a couple more batteries and solar panels if we really want to get into that. I think we'd be fine for a day or two as we are if weather is not too hot or too cold.

Keep asking questions. When we were at your stage it seemed that the answer to any one question raised three or four more questions.

 

[2610ml]

Duallies suck in the snow, whether towing or not. If you must, it's expensive, put good, aggressive, all terrain tires on; then go buy at least 2 sets of chains. You will likely spend around $400.00 a tire. The problem is finding those kinds of tires with the load range a dually can support. Another problem is you will be replacing tires in 30-40 thousand miles, at best, most likely ever 25k miles.

We agree about how lame a dually is in the snow. We buy Firestone Transforce AT tires and get 90,000 to 110,000 miles out of a set. Last set was around $1,300.00
Always check tire pressure before a trip and rotate them every 7,500 miles religiously.

 

[Dick Noble]

I will never again tow without a dually and a 4X4. They are so much more stable on the road and can carry so much more weight. Yes, they are not good in snow or on ice, 4X4 or not. We have been RVing over 25 years. It is a wonderous lifestyle. We have made life-long friends and seen some great parts of this country. In fact, RVing is the only way we could have had this much fun. It is work, it cost money but we love it. Make life-long memories and enjoy.

 

[Band1t]

I have started this several times, let me see if I can finish this.

First, thanks to those that responded and let me see if I have this right.

1) Do not tow in the snow unless you have to. Understood, but part of my question is how is the dually with 4WD in the snow on its own. We may be someplace where we have parked the fiver and are just using the dually to travel around to either run errands or just see the sights.

2) Thanks particularly to [MENTION=870]Second Chance[/MENTION] for the extra detail about the wind conditions. And I had not thought about the tighter curves, but that makes sense. I do understand about the added stability and the payload, and as much as I rather not do it, that is the route I will most likely take.

3) The ability to sleep in your own bed and worry less about how long we are gone are two of the prime reasons we have been planning to go this route. And while we only have two dogs and can find many places that accept two dogs, many have requirements that the dogs cannot get up on furniture or the bed with you. Sorry, my dogs always sleep with us. My question about how much money one would spend on a TV and RV had more to do with how can one not help but think of all the vacations they can take with that same money? Not really a comparison vs. my mind goes to that would finance a lot of nice vacations. But I get it.

4) Thanks for the thoughts and detail about how long a rig can be uninhabited in the winter. Guess I just have to become an expert on winterizing it quickly.

5) The generator info has helped me determine that we have no reason to get that until we see how much boondocking we will do.

Thanks, again to all.

My $0.02 on the TW. In prep for a 5'er, I replaced my 2500 with a 3500 DRW. Towing my 38' 16k 5'er is a dream compared to the 10-11k bumper pull we previously had. H ave had the DRW as my daily driver for 20 months now in Portland, OR and yes I have to remember what I am driving but has not been a problem.