Notes from a first time RVer on towing capacity, trucks and fifth wheels

You are doing it right

I like you did my research. I replaced my truck in 2021 with the mindset of I wanted to tow my trailer, and most any other trailer I would have in the future.
Bought a 2021 Ram Longhorn DRW LB, 5,004 payload. If I had it to do over, would have left off the heavy sunroof. I may end up with a DRV one day, and want to be able to haul a big trailer.
Good luck on getting the cart now that you have the horse.
 
If you went by the 80-20 rule, you're only looking at 4,000 lb. payload with that truck. A DRV will run over that, as will other big, heavy trailers. Real life is where the 80-20 rule falls flat.
 
It`s easy to tell who runs over loaded and how they can justify that fact in their minds. It mostly caused by bad decisions, a macho attitude, the wife and afraid to tell her you need to buy another 85,000-dollar truck to pull the new trailer. The 80 / 20 rule is not just some old fart's opinion from yesteryear it`s born from years of experience in manufacturing and failure analysis studies. But it will be treated that way because usually it`s about money and spending it just for that 20% of cushion. Heck even generator manufactures tell you not to load it to more than 80%. Yes I know, what do they know, right?
 
I would add that the payload sticker on the TV does not necessarily reflect the actual payload. My sticker says 4014 payload. The CAT scale with full tanks, DW and me, lunch cooler, safety gear, gooseball and chains, electronics, AND all of the options that the invoice says factory installed (but the factory didn't use in computing sticker weight) dropped our payload considerably - in our case 600lbs less than sticker.

This is so true. When I picked up my GMC 3500 AT4, I went directly to the scale. I weighed it and deducted the actual rear axle weight from the rated rear axle weight. The result was a rear axle payload of 3400 Lbs. which is 300 lbs. less than the sticker weight. Running boards were added at the dealer but I don't think they weigh 300 lbs.
 
It`s easy to tell who runs over loaded and how they can justify that fact in their minds. It mostly caused by bad decisions, a macho attitude, the wife and afraid to tell her you need to buy another 85,000-dollar truck to pull the new trailer. The 80 / 20 rule is not just some old fart's opinion from yesteryear it`s born from years of experience in manufacturing and failure analysis studies. But it will be treated that way because usually it`s about money and spending it just for that 20% of cushion. Heck even generator manufactures tell you not to load it to more than 80%. Yes I know, what do they know, right?

Then why don’t the auto manufacturers state this if it is a rule
Of course if anything is run at max the failure rate will be higher. This works for generators,mowers,heaters power tools etc but doesn’t mean they will fail
This “80/20 thing” was for half ton owners imo. I don’t know why but that is who it is always geared toward on the interwebs
There is I would guess less than 5 percent of the HD trucks and highway tractors that would fit a “ 80/20 rule”
 
Then why don’t the auto manufacturers state this if it is a rule
Of course if anything is run at max the failure rate will be higher. This works for generators,mowers,heaters power tools etc but doesn’t mean they will fail
This “80/20 thing” was for half ton owners imo. I don’t know why but that is who it is always geared toward on the interwebs
There is I would guess less than 5 percent of the HD trucks and highway tractors that would fit a “ 80/20 rule”

Yeah, and what about the trailers? Should they also adhere to the 80-20 rule? If so, a 16,000 GVWR trailer would be limited to grossing no more than 12,800 lbs. Heck, that's barely more than some come from the factory. And those 8,000 lb. axles will only carry 6,400 lbs.
 
Yeah, and what about the trailers? Should they also adhere to the 80-20 rule? If so, a 16,000 GVWR trailer would be limited to grossing no more than 12,800 lbs. Heck, that's barely more than some come from the factory. And those 8,000 lb. axles will only carry 6,400 lbs.

Exactly. Most trailers would have zero ccc if a “80/20 rule” was actually a thing
 
Exactly. Most trailers would have zero ccc if a “80/20 rule” was actually a thing



what most of you don`t consider is the RV industry is mostly an unregulated business type. They can tell you anything and get away with it. And put anything they want on a camper and tell you Oh yeh it`s heavy duty enough and go home and sleep at night. Like the axle capacity issue LOL half of you replace your axles with a higher capacity one for what reason. The whole suspension is right at it`s capacity from tires to bolts to springs and fail on a VERY regular bases. All those things have fail on my unit and have been upgraded because of it and I don`t travel any where near the units limits. But that`s just part of owning a camper , right? The guy is 100% correct in his long a detailed post.
Buy a dually, travel light, and just because you have the space dosen`t mean you have to fill it up with stuff. If your married that will be hard to do.
 
what most of you don`t consider is the RV industry is mostly an unregulated business type. They can tell you anything and get away with it. And put anything they want on a camper and tell you Oh yeh it`s heavy duty enough and go home and sleep at night. Like the axle capacity issue LOL half of you replace your axles with a higher capacity one for what reason. The whole suspension is right at it`s capacity from tires to bolts to springs and fail on a VERY regular bases. All those things have fail on my unit and have been upgraded because of it and I don`t travel any where near the units limits. But that`s just part of owning a camper , right? The guy is 100% correct in his long a detailed post.
Buy a dually, travel light, and just because you have the space dosen`t mean you have to fill it up with stuff. If your married that will be hard to do.

All that might make you think the knowledge of this 80-20 rule isn't as widespread as some would like to believe. I'm done with the subject, it's nonsense IMO, not worth arguing over.
 
DCGC2023, what a post - the details are incredible, and thank you. I'll touch on a couple of things you said that hit home:

1. Not every salesman lacks knowledge; we have come across some great ones. However, as others have replied, many of them have no clue of the intricate details of the RV, let alone the RV/truck combo/requirements. My wife and I started researching almost three years ago now (factor in changing careers, changing incomes, COVID and rising prices, and we never pulled the trigger - yet); I have a spreadsheet for goodness sake with truck and RV data, so I know exactly what can pull what when the time comes. We even had a salesman a while back tell us we knew more than he did.

2. A friend and very experienced RVer told me one time (in the same conversation he suggested I make a spreadsheet), it is not pulling that is the issue, it is stopping! Many trucks will pull whatever you want - they just won't stop when you need. See GCVWs!

3. And lastly, from another long-time RVer and his wife we spoke with - be sure to check your state's driver's license requirements for what type of license you need when driving and pulling something over 25k lb GCVW (seems to be about the standard around the country). In TX, a Class C license is not legal for pulling that much weight, though it is confusing to determine if I need an A or B. Some states will accept your proper RV-pulling license and others will not without some endorsement (or so I read). Yes, there is a driving test, too, depending on where you live. The old-timers rule of thumb was to never buy a truck/RV combo exceeding that, but of course that depends on what you want and can afford.

Safe travels, great research!
 
... it is not pulling that is the issue, it is stopping! Many trucks will pull whatever you want - they just won't stop when you need.

The trailer brakes are designed to stop the trailer. If they are doing their job, the truck just has to stop itself. In fact, if the trailer brakes aren't adequate and the majority of the stopping force is provided by the tow vehicle, the chances of jackknifing are greatly increased. "Over-trucking" is no substitute for properly working trailer brakes. The most frequent weak point in tow vehicle specifications is payload, not brakes.

Rob
 
This is so true. When I picked up my GMC 3500 AT4, I went directly to the scale. I weighed it and deducted the actual rear axle weight from the rated rear axle weight. The result was a rear axle payload of 3400 Lbs. which is 300 lbs. less than the sticker weight. Running boards were added at the dealer but I don't think they weigh 300 lbs.

One thing to remember is that all of the payload will not be on the rear axle. If loaded properly that 300lbs that you lost would end up on the front axle with some of the load in front of the year axle. The gooseneck in my 3500 RAM is 2" in front of the rear axle to allow for some weight added to the front axle when pulling with the goose neck. The pucks also put the weight slightly in front of the axle for the same reason. This is one reason why a long bed can have the same rear axle rating as a short bed yet have 500 lbs more payload. The longer bed allows more weight in front of the rear axle so more weight goes to the front axle giving you more payload.

Rob
 
The trailer brakes are designed to stop the trailer. If they are doing their job, the truck just has to stop itself. In fact, if the trailer brakes aren't adequate and the majority of the stopping force is provided by the tow vehicle, the chances of jackknifing are greatly increased. "Over-trucking" is no substitute for properly working trailer brakes. The most frequent weak point in tow vehicle specifications is payload, not brakes.

Rob

Totally agree. My 3500 Ram SRWhas the same brakes as the DRW when I researched the brake parts to confirm, yet the DRW has more capacity due to the DRW and not much else.

Rob
 
One thing to remember is that all of the payload will not be on the rear axle. If loaded properly that 300lbs that you lost would end up on the front axle with some of the load in front of the year axle. The gooseneck in my 3500 RAM is 2" in front of the rear axle to allow for some weight added to the front axle when pulling with the goose neck. The pucks also put the weight slightly in front of the axle for the same reason. This is one reason why a long bed can have the same rear axle rating as a short bed yet have 500 lbs more payload. The longer bed allows more weight in front of the rear axle so more weight goes to the front axle giving you more payload.

Rob

Do you have the factory puck system and LB? I'm curious because I've CAT scaled TV and TV/RV prior to each trip this year and the steer axle weight didn't increase at all - only drive axle.
 
FWIW, I have the Ram puck system with the B&W hitch and a long bed, and my steering axle increased by 200 lbs., when the drive axle increased by 3100 lbs.

It would seem odd that the steer axle won't increase a little if the hitch is on axle center-line, or a little forward. Maybe if it's behind the axle center-line a touch, the steer axle wouldn't change. Just a thought. All of mine have been slightly in front of the axle and they all increased the steer axle a couple hundred pounds or so.
 
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FWIW, I have the Ram puck system with the B&W hitch and a long bed, and my steering axle increased by 200 lbs., when the drive axle increased by 3100 lbs.

It would seem odd that the steer axle won't increase a little if the hitch is on axle center-line, or a little forward. Maybe if it's behind the axle center-line a touch, the steer axle wouldn't change. Just a thought. All of mine have been slightly in front of the axle and they all increased the steer axle a couple hundred pounds or so.

I haven't measured where it is or looked down - just assumed the receiver was directly over the rear axle. Interesting. Two long trips, no change in steer axle and 3140, 3200 increase on drive axle.
 
Do you have the factory puck system and LB? I'm curious because I've CAT scaled TV and TV/RV prior to each trip this year and the steer axle weight didn't increase at all - only drive axle.

I have a short bed and I use the B&W Companion hitch but with the gooseneck single point attachment. With the short box I am currently setup at 5" back from the gooseneck connection or 3" back from the rear axle and it removes about 150 lbs off of my front axle.

Rob
 
time will tell

Then why don’t the auto manufacturers state this if it is a rule
Of course if anything is run at max the failure rate will be higher. This works for generators,mowers,heaters power tools etc but doesn’t mean they will fail
This “80/20 thing” was for half ton owners imo. I don’t know why but that is who it is always geared toward on the interwebs
There is I would guess less than 5 percent of the HD trucks and highway tractors that would fit a “ 80/20 rule”

Still missing the point the 80/20 rule (not because of F150`s, that statment is out of left field and 100% wrong) is the figure that will more than likely keep you out of trouble. And dosen`t not matter what you apply it to it will work. So walk on the wild side, your money ,your life just say away from me.
 
If I used the 80/20 "rule" in trucking ny dad would have never made money.

If I told dispatch Im never taking off of 80% of Max Gross Takeoff weight in an Airbus 321 Neo, Id never go anywhere. Or have a job.
 

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