Opening in partition wall-by design

Papaz8

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Location
Gretna, NE. (for now)
Hi all-
Not sure if this the correct place for this, but here I go.
This past summer while in the national parks, I notice a large draft coming from underneath the “coffee bar” section of drawers. A/c was on and it was pulling a lot of warm air from this area. Later, when the temps dropped, we turned on the furnace, and I found cold air coming in from the same area. I removed the drawers and found an open section of wall board that separates the kitchen area from the master bath. Approx. 10” x 17” opening. You could see inside the belly and saw pipes, wires, etc.
I wondered if this was an access “hole” for repairs? Air return? But it made no sense to me that it would bring in such large amounts of outside air when HVAC was running. Sort of like trying to cool/ heat the outdoors! So, I taped it shut with a piece of luan paneling and no more air drafts.

Anybody run into this? Was this a factory “oops” or does it have a purpose?
As always, I appreciate all comments.

Cheers!

Papaz
 
Our 295RL has a opening to the basement under our OEM hutch. Its primarily for return air.... but I "assume" it also serves a purpose for cooling of the inverter and (some) winter freeze control for the Nautilus water line hookups (when used during cold months).

And yes.... it does provide some draft on cool days.
 
Hi all-
Not sure if this the correct place for this, but here I go.
This past summer while in the national parks, I notice a large draft coming from underneath the “coffee bar” section of drawers. A/c was on and it was pulling a lot of warm air from this area. Later, when the temps dropped, we turned on the furnace, and I found cold air coming in from the same area. I removed the drawers and found an open section of wall board that separates the kitchen area from the master bath. Approx. 10” x 17” opening. You could see inside the belly and saw pipes, wires, etc.
I wondered if this was an access “hole” for repairs? Air return? But it made no sense to me that it would bring in such large amounts of outside air when HVAC was running. Sort of like trying to cool/ heat the outdoors! So, I taped it shut with a piece of luan paneling and no more air drafts.

Anybody run into this? Was this a factory “oops” or does it have a purpose?
As always, I appreciate all comments.

Cheers!

Papaz
That is the furnace return....

I would uncover it when you use the furnace. You have a heated underbelly/storage, so you aren't heating the outdoors unless you leave the pass through doors open.
 
Ok, but I have vents in the storage belly. There is an air return in the floor behind the main toilet. A 10” x 17” air return seems pretty large to me. Are they separate air returns for a/c vs heat? Sorry, Im just trying to wrap my head around this.
Thanks
Papaz
 
Ok, but I have vents in the storage belly. There is an air return in the floor behind the main toilet. A 10” x 17” air return seems pretty large to me. Are they separate air returns for a/c vs heat? Sorry, Im just trying to wrap my head around this.
Thanks
Papaz
Furnace return only. ACs air returns are in the ceiling grills themselves protected by removable mesh screens if you have the Coleman units.

Note: We purchased extra AC mesh return grills for our 2 AC units (take 2 ea, one on each side of grill). That way we could replace and clean the dirty ones with clean ones without having to turn off our ACs during high usage times. They do tend to get dirty quickly when ACs are used alot...
 
Ok, but I have vents in the storage belly. There is an air return in the floor behind the main toilet. A 10” x 17” air return seems pretty large to me. Are they separate air returns for a/c vs heat? Sorry, Im just trying to wrap my head around this.
Thanks
Papaz
While I rarely camp when it's cold enough to run the furnace and heat the underbelly I primarily use the fireplace and a small ceramic disc heater to keep the rig toasty if I'm on full 50A hookups. That being said I do occasionally run the furnace and as Hunter70 stated that opening is an air return from the main living area to the furnace ... and it must be left opened while running the furnace or you could end up with serious damage to the furnace or even a fire. I do however keep that opening closed up with a rolled up towel under the hutch all summer long while using the AC units...it prevents my cold air from sinking and ending up in the underbelly. I do the same with a folded up bath towel over the bathroom return vent behind the toilet. My main storage compartment gets too hot if I do run the furnace so the vents in that ductwork are covered with duct tape.
 
Ok, but I have vents in the storage belly. There is an air return in the floor behind the main toilet. A 10” x 17” air return seems pretty large to me. Are they separate air returns for a/c vs heat? Sorry, Im just trying to wrap my head around this.
Thanks
Papaz
Only the furnace requires an air return at floor level - the AC air return is via the ceiling unit. If you have large amounts of warm air coming in from the air return passage(s), I would suspect you have an outside basement door open. If you do elect to block the return during the summer, make darn sure you unblock it before using the furnace.

Rob
 
I have a 2020 29RS. If you remove the drawers and peek behind them, you will find a huge hole.

I get that you need to have air return to the heater, but that hole is way too big. No, I am not an HVAC engineer. I reduced the hole by half and will address the issue later. Since I do not camp when it's below freezing, I bet I can seal that hole 100% and not notice a difference with the heat.

I just do not believe you have to live that that amount of draft. Especially in the summer where the heat just pours in.
 
I have a 2020 29RS. If you remove the drawers and peek behind them, you will find a huge hole.

I get that you need to have air return to the heater, but that hole is way too big. No, I am not an HVAC engineer. I reduced the hole by half and will address the issue later. Since I do not camp when it's below freezing, I bet I can seal that hole 100% and not notice a difference with the heat.

I just do not believe you have to live that that amount of draft. Especially in the summer where the heat just pours in.
Do what you want but you're definitely making a mistake by closing off the return vent. Doesn't matter if you camp below freezing or not, fact is anytime you run your furnace you need the proper amount of return air. Closing off the return air will force the furnace to run much hotter... dangerously hotter.
I simply close mine off temporarily whenever I'm not running the furnace by using a pool noodle wrapped in a towel and wedging it in the opening of the hutch air return. This keeps my AC from migrating down into the storage compartment all summer long. No drafts.. nothing.
 

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Yes, without a doubt, if you close off the inlet, it will be a problem. But, will I really be closing off the inlet?

Just like the recirculation option in your car, is it possible I can just get fresh air vs the recirculated air from the RV? Since I do not camp where it is below freezing, will it matter if this fresh air intake a a bit colder than the recirculated [warmer] air? Will the outlet temp be still warm enough for my liking?

If I do get 100% fresh air, will the interior have a higher pressure and therefore keep even more drafts out? Will this higher pressure cause the same problem as a restricted intake? What happens if I get 100% of the inlet air from the storage basement and have a vent in that compartment that will open if there is a negative pressure in the basement? Kind of like the stove fan vent?

All these things matter which is why I just partially sealed up the hole [by about 50%] vs sealing it up 100%. There will be a time when I can invest the right amount of time on this. I will not accept that fact that I must have a huge hole in my RV that just lets a lot of hot air in the trailer. If there is a will, there is a way.

I have opened the drawers and without a doubt, it's really warm in there. A pool noodle may help with the interior of the trailer, but not with the food in the drawers.
 
Yes, without a doubt, if you close off the inlet, it will be a problem. But, will I really be closing off the inlet?

Just like the recirculation option in your car, is it possible I can just get fresh air vs the recirculated air from the RV? Since I do not camp where it is below freezing, will it matter if this fresh air intake a a bit colder than the recirculated [warmer] air? Will the outlet temp be still warm enough for my liking?

If I do get 100% fresh air, will the interior have a higher pressure and therefore keep even more drafts out? Will this higher pressure cause the same problem as a restricted intake? What happens if I get 100% of the inlet air from the storage basement and have a vent in that compartment that will open if there is a negative pressure in the basement? Kind of like the stove fan vent?

All these things matter which is why I just partially sealed up the hole [by about 50%] vs sealing it up 100%. There will be a time when I can invest the right amount of time on this. I will not accept that fact that I must have a huge hole in my RV that just lets a lot of hot air in the trailer. If there is a will, there is a way.

I have opened the drawers and without a doubt, it's really warm in there. A pool noodle may help with the interior of the trailer, but not with the food in the drawers.
This is my same thought. I took a pic of the hole in the wall and have sent it to GD for their response. to my tiny brain, that 10" x 17" is huge. What is the floor return vent in the bathroom for? They are basically on the same partition wall!! We don't keep food in those drawers in the hutch, but the loss of air/heat is perplexing.
Hoping GD chimes in on this. Winter in Nebraska is rough enough.
 

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.....to my tiny brain.....
So you work in the automotive repair industry too? :ROFLMAO:

When I partially sealed up the area, I did use foam board since I figured it would help with the insulation too. Easy to cut since it is a pain to fit my big head back there.

I know what you are all thinking. How can I have a big head and a tiny brain? More reasons why I fixed German cars for a living.
 
This is my same thought. I took a pic of the hole in the wall and have sent it to GD for their response. to my tiny brain, that 10" x 17" is huge. What is the floor return vent in the bathroom for? They are basically on the same partition wall!! We don't keep food in those drawers in the hutch, but the loss of air/heat is perplexing.
Hoping GD chimes in on this. Winter in Nebraska is rough enough.
We don't keep any food in that area either... just pots, pans, Tupperware, etc... food is kept in the tall pantry closet and occasionally some extra snacks in the top right cabinet above the hutch to have accessible while traveling. Do you not have more than one return air vent in your homes forced hot air heating system? Do you close them off and say "why do I need more than one"? There is NO loss of heat.... heat rises and the return vents are at floor level in both areas of the RV. While I agree that with this design you lose some cold air to the basement area when using AC in hot weather so temporarily closing off the returns at that time is acceptable. If it's really hot and both ACs are running full out I'll even close off the 3 heat supply vents in the base of the kitchen island and cover the one in the bedroom floor just to help keep the cold air from migrating down into the underfloor ductwork. Again, closing off the returns when the furnace is running is asking for problems. It doesn't matter how big the hole in that wall is as long as it's as large or bigger than the return air opening under the hutch. You're all really overthinking this.
 
That hole in the wall goes right into the basement storage. No different than leaving a window open. Since there is no cooling inside the basement, it's a huge difference. It could be as much as 20F difference or more.

If there was as much heat or draft in the return vents, I would close them off too, but there is not.

Are we overthinking it? Probably, but fixing things is what I am good at and finding problems [that others don't think is a problem] is also another flaw of mine.
 
We don't keep any food in that area either... just pots, pans, Tupperware, etc... food is kept in the tall pantry closet and occasionally some extra snacks in the top right cabinet above the hutch to have accessible while traveling. Do you not have more than one return air vent in your homes forced hot air heating system? Do you close them off and say "why do I need more than one"? There is NO loss of heat.... heat rises and the return vents are at floor level in both areas of the RV. While I agree that with this design you lose some cold air to the basement area when using AC in hot weather so temporarily closing off the returns at that time is acceptable. If it's really hot and both ACs are running full out I'll even close off the 3 heat supply vents in the base of the kitchen island and cover the one in the bedroom floor just to help keep the cold air from migrating down into the underfloor ductwork. Again, closing off the returns when the furnace is running is asking for problems. It doesn't matter how big the hole in that wall is as long as it's as large or bigger than the return air opening under the hutch. You're all really overthinking this.
Hi all-So, I finally heard back from GD regarding this question. The response was that the opening in the wall behind the hutch is supposed to have an access panel there to get to the components in the basement area. It is not an air return for the furnace. They sent me an entire wall panel (4' x 8') as a replacement, free of charge. They said "I'd have to cut it down a bit". Really?? I needed 10" x 17" to make the panel. LOL! So, I'll fashion an access panel from what they sent me and see how that goes.
Winter is coming and I just want to make sure we are set up as well as possible.
I really appreciate everyone's input!

Cheers!
PapaZ
 
Well, that is a surprise.

I have read about this 'air return' theory several times and it appears that it's just a myth. A good thought, but wrong. I am glad someone asked and got the right answer. I know what I will be doing on mine.

No, it won't be using a noodle ;)
 
Hi all-So, I finally heard back from GD regarding this question. The response was that the opening in the wall behind the hutch is supposed to have an access panel there to get to the components in the basement area. It is not an air return for the furnace. They sent me an entire wall panel (4' x 8') as a replacement, free of charge. They said "I'd have to cut it down a bit". Really?? I needed 10" x 17" to make the panel. LOL! So, I'll fashion an access panel from what they sent me and see how that goes.
Winter is coming and I just want to make sure we are set up as well as possible.
I really appreciate everyone's input!

Cheers!
PapaZ
Who did you talk to a GD... an engineer? a service technician? or just a customer service rep? Did you explain that the hole is part of the hutch that has the furnace air return built into it? Do what you want but you and any others that completely close off the return air to the furnace is asking for problems.
 
I'm all for finding the truth about things and sometimes it's really difficult with the internet.

That said, has anyone heard differently from GD about the hole? I have read many threads that the reason is for air distribution for the heater and that is a valid reason, but has any GD engineer proved that this thought is correct? I do not recall reading anything that supports it [but common sense].

To find the reason, it's really best to prove all theories, not just hunker down, and prove everyone is wrong but you idea. Testing is what proves who what right.

Does someone have to seal the hole 100% and see what happens? Shoot, that might be just me. Even if I did, there are several people that would think I am just a butcher and have no idea what I am talking about.

If GD says it's ok and sends you a piece of wood [for free] to seal up the hole, it must be ok. If you did and the trailer/heater burns down, don't you think that they would be liable? Sure, employees/business' can make mistakes, but I suspect there was a lot of time and effort to say 'It's ok to plug it up and here is a piece of wood to help you with that'.

I have read numerous thread that a lithium battery cannot be charged much more than 50-60% with a standard converter. I tested that theory and found it was false. Sure, my stock converter might just be broken, but I have found out that the battery I had was charged to darn near 95% [IIRC]. I believe in test results first, common sense second, and opinions last.
 

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