Our issues and how they were solved-Part 1 & 2

[Boomer58]

My wife and I looked at a 270BN back in the fall of 2022. We wanted to trade our Transcend 200MK in as we were planning some big trips and wanted to get something a little bigger. I had all of the specs for the trailer so I went and ordered a 2023 Ford F-250 Super Duty in Dec.of 2022. We went to the Tampa RV show and looked at the new 270BN that they had and knew it was the right trailer for our needs. We had previously owned a 337RLS, a 380FLR, and the 200MK. I tried to make a deal with Lazy Days but they were way off on the trade in. I talked to a rep from GD and was put in touch with Palm Beach RV over on the east coast. We made a deal over the phone and I told them that I couldn't do anything until my truck came in and that would be around April. The truck came in and I took the 200MK down to Palm Beach the night before and slept in the parking lot. The next morning the salesman got there and we went through the paperwork. I did the walk through with a gentleman but I didn't look under the trailer as I should have. I noticed that the pin box had been hit with a spray can and there was over spray on the underside of the nose. The guy doing the walk through said they do that with all of the trailers that go out, (first sign something was not right). After a lot of time spent doing the paper work, I still had to move all of our stuff over from the other trailer to the new one and I had a commitment back home that evening and I was 4 hours away. I got on the road and got back home that evening, parked everything and figured we would go everything in the morning.
The next day we started going over everything and when I looked under the trailer I was shocked to see that there was rust all over the suspension, I opened the propane tank doors and there was rust all over the tanks and also the straps that hold them. I called the dealer and ended up talking with the owner and let him know of my displeasure. I also called GD and let them know about the rust issues. The owner said if I brought the trailer back down that they would take care of it and they would pay for my gas also and he also would be there to meet with me. I got down there the night before and was ready for them the next morning. They took the trailer in and said they would call me later that day when it was ready. The owner and also the salesman were all of the sudden MIA as there was some big family emergency that came up. They called that afternoon and I went back to pick up the trailer and they sure fixed the rust issue, they sprayed undercoating all over everything, axles, suspension, brake drums and everywhere else that they saw rust. By this point I knew I was not going to get anywhere so I hooked up and headed back home and figured I would deal with GD as I was getting nowhere with the dealer and they also couldn't pay for my gas without the owner's approval. GD had a file going on this and they also sent me a check for the gas.
Throughout this process there were some very serious health issues going on and that was on the front burner of our life. We took the trailer out for a quick weekend and realized that it was a perfect layout for us but due to the health issues and treatments going on, the trailer sat in storage for most of the summer. We finally got out for a road trip and that's where the real problems started. I was getting a lot of suspension noises and then a grinding noise developed in the rear passenger side brake drum. The wall that separates the side of the refrigerator and the couch had broke away at the bottom and was kind of flapping away. Did I mention that when we stopped at a rest area, the freezer door had opened up and all of our "unfrozen" food and what was ice was all over the floor ?

I will finish this post in a day or 2 when I get some more time. Get the popcorn ready, you'll want to hear the rest, Boomer.

 

[Boomer58]

Here is part 2 of our issues with our 270BN. After we returned from our trip, I called GD and told them about the brake noise, the wall next to the refrigerator, lots of clunking noises from the pin box, the cable on the rear gray tank that was frozen up, etc. I told them it was not going back to the original dealer as they would probably spray undercoating over everything. They told me that I could take it to any GD dealer and it would be taken care of. I called Lazy Days in Tampa and they could take it in the middle of February (this was October). No problem as we were not going anywhere. When Feb. came I had the trailer there at 9am as requested, I met with the service rep who kept insisting that I sign some paperwork that I would pay for any repairs that were not covered under warranty. I told him everything I listed was warranty work and that I wasn't paying for any of it. I tried to explain to him about all of the issues and he actually told me that he really didn't have very much knowledge about repairs and his experience was with sales. He finally got a mechanic to come out to look at the issues and listen to the brake noises, with my tools he moved the wedge for the turning point hitch forward 1/4 of an inch (took 15 minutes) and said that should take care of it. The rest of the issues would be taken care of. I left the trailer there and approximately a month later they called and said it was ready and that I owed them $400.00 for 2 hours labor to repair the wedge. At $200.00 an hour the flat rate manual calls for 2 hours labor. As you can probably tell, that conversation didn't go very well. Anyway after some arguing we agreed to $100.00 for the hitch adjustment. He couldn't provide anything in the manual that calls for the hitch adjustment. The original service rep no longer worked there and I just wanted my trailer back. I picked up the trailer and was unable to speak to anyone about the repairs as they were "busy" and I paid the $100.00 and left. They found nothing wrong with the brakes, the hitch was as noisy as ever. I got the trailer back and parked it in the storage yard. About a month later we headed out for a week up to Birmingham AL. The wheel was grinding away, the temp was about 10 degrees higher than the other wheels, I use an infrared thermometer and always check my wheel temp when we stop. The refrigerator had dropped down about an inch and was crooked with the wall that they fixed flapping away at the bottom. Monday morning came and I called GD as soon as they opened and Ron H. answered. He listened as I explained everything. He told me he was a supervisor in the customer service dept. and I could take the trailer to a certified repair shop, pay for the repairs and they would reimburse me for the cost. As soon as I got back home I found a repair shop with good reviews up in Clearwater. I made the appointment and brought it up there about a week later. They pulled everything apart and found that the brake adjuster had broken off and was grinding away inside the brake drum. They would not fix just the one side as their policy was to change both sides of the one axle. I told them to go ahead and I would deal with GD about the cost. This was now the second week of May and we were leaving for the INDY 500 the week before Memorial day in what would be the start of our 4-5 month trip across Canada & the US. Because of the delay in getting the parts, we missed Indy for the first time in many years. We finally got the trailer back, they couldn't fix the refrigerator but the brakes were done. We got the trailer back on a Friday evening and spent Saturday loading it up and had to leave by Sunday to make it to Wisconsin for the Indy car race at Road America. GD agreed to pay $800.00 out of the $1500.00 that it cost for the brake repairs. So now our trip began, the pin box was still pretty noisy, the fridge was crooked but working, lots of QC and cosmetic issues still existed but we had heat, AC when needed and a safe comfortable bed to sleep in. After a couple of years of serious health issues, we were on what would be our dream trip with our truck, trailer and 2 cats. At some point I crawled under the trailer to check and grease the suspension and I noticed the left rear tire wearing on the inside, yes the axle was bent. As we got further along the tire got worse, I changed it with the spare and proceeded to to type up an email to Don Clark. It took me a week to type it up, I explained everything that had happened and was continuing to happen with our trailer. I also mentioned that this was our 4th GD trailer and how much we loved it but also hated it for the issues that we had. I sent the email out late one afternoon/evening. The next morning at 5:30 am, 8:30 Indiana time I received a call from Christine H. who was the head of consumer relations ( I think that is her title ). She patiently listened to all of my issues and said I could do 2 things. I could bring the trailer to Indiana or they would come and get the trailer wherever we were and they would make all of the repairs. She also told me they would pay the balance of the $1500.00 we spent getting the brakes repaired. I told her we would be back in Florida by the end of October. As we made our way back she was in constant contact with us and assured us that everything would be fine. Her goal was to make everything right and make us love our trailer again. We arrived back home and made the arrangements for them to get the trailer. I received a call from Herman G who is a company driver for GD and he told us when he would arrive. We advised him on a place to stay and met him there for dinner when he arrived. He also had his co-pilot Ruger with him who is just a really nice dog and his traveling companion. I met him the next morning and took him to the storage yard where he went over everything, took lots of pictures and filled out all of the paperwork. He kept in contact with me his whole way back assuring me that our trailer was in good hands. When the trailer was finished he made the arrangements to deliver the trailer back.

Here is a list of the repairs made :
Replace refrigerator and repair wall
" all of the suspension, both axles, brakes, tires and wheels
" pin box
" kitchen faucet and sink
" wood moulding that goes around the slide
" toilet
" front basement door that had a crack around the latch
" rear gray tank valve and repair broken tab that supports handle

My wife and I experienced a very stressful period with health issues the past couple of years and then top it off with the issues we had with the trailer, everything worked out for us. We were able to take a dream trip with our trailer even though it had it's problems. I cannot praise GD enough about this experience. Ron H, Christine H, and Herman G are just wonderful people to deal with. Herman (and Ruger) is just an awesome representative of GD as all of them are, but to meet him in person was wonderful. I am not one to sit behind a computer and bash dealers, I believe in telling them outright to their face how I feel which I have. I feel that you have to know how to use a screwdriver and a wrench if you own a RV as there is always something that needs to be fixed. GD really stepped up to the plate and our next trailer will be a GD product. I'm sorry to bore all of you with our story but I feel it's one to be heard. Thank you GD and especially the people I have mentioned, Boomer.

 

[ajg617]

@Boomer58 Glad they took care of you and Chris is wonderful. We've been in constant contact since we broke down Aug 2023 at Glacier National Park. I also sent an email to Don Clark and got the 5:30am wake-up the next morning from Chris since I didn't know who she was at the time - all good. It was unpleasant at Glacier because of forest fires all around (across the street from us was an evacuation prep order) but Chris sent a pallet of suspension parts out and we extended our stay a week to get the parts and have them installed at a local trailer shop - all reimbursed including the lost activities (like boat rides, hikes, etc.). That was a 70 day trip about 7K miles. When we got back, I noticed some frame concerns and a tire that had bubbled in the middle of the tread. I took it to a local Lippert shop and they discovered that the axles were not aligned square to the frame (Lippert didn't weld the hangers in a straight line) and all the new bushings we had installed in Montana were gone or in small pieces and new wet bolts ruined. Chris had the RV pulled to Elkhart early Nov. It is still there and in the shop. The amount of work they have done on it is stunning - much of which I had no idea about. Waiting on new axles now as the entire suspension is being replaced. They had Lippert come over and weld in some additional frame support after GD discovered a small crack in the frame ahead of an equalizer, pulled the main slide out and added additional steel under the floor, added gussets, replaced outriggers, replaced the underbelly and insulation, and pulled the nose cap to add frame support. Unbelievable amount of work and she has kept me informed the entire way. The whole team has been steller.

 

[WhittleBurner]

I love seeing good results. Once you go through the dealer hoops (which is a painful experience with some dealers) and get to GD service the skys the limit!!

 

[ajg617]

I love seeing good results. Once you go through the dealer hoops (which is a painful experience with some dealers) and get to GD service the skys the limit!!

Just got an email from Chris that they are ready to transport it back!

 

[Boomer58]

Glad to hear it's coming back. I'm sure all of the GD drivers are top notch but hopefully you will get Herman. True salt of the earth guy, the kind of guy you would want at your dinner table, and don't forget biscuits for Ruger.

 

[WhittleBurner]

Over all the National ralllies (9) we have volunteered for we have camped right across from where the GD road crew Techs/ Drivers and Factory Repair guys gather and taked with many of them. They are all stand up great people, not to mention hard workers.

 

[ajg617]

Thought you might be interested in what GD found (over and above why it was at GD for things I knew about). Long list, a lot of things the techs just didn't like. The suspension, floor issues up front, and frame reinforcements were key for me but I'm sure glad they found the sagging floor under the main door side slide out, and replaced the underbelly (there were four holes in it from hanger replacement).
1) Lippert engineers came over to GD and inspected the frame including the hangers. The hangers are now aligned front-to-rear and properly spaced. (LCI did not catch the web crack in frame). GD discovered frame crack in web in front of door side equalizer and LCI came back to weld 1x2 on both sides the length of the rail.
2) R&R underbelly and wet insulation. No leaks found but suspicion was improper seal around the edge of the underbelly and frame allowed water in.
3) Removed front cap to fully measure flex. In spec but added gussets alon cross frame that supports pin box and in front of landing gear. All holes filled with 1/2" lags, lock washers, Sika. Carriage bolts replaced.
4) Rolled Linoleum back under the bed box and secured upper decking to the frame then re-installed linoleum. Unknown why upper decking was not attached to frame.
5) Removed main door-side slide out to inspect crack in wall above slide topper (I'm told it went to the paint shop but I don't know what exactly they found).
6) Replaced tires, rims, lugs due to premature wear from axle mis-alignment.
7) Replaced cargo door on off-door side due to mis-alignment and water leaking onto the Auto-leveling control panel.
8) Replaced main slide-out seals when re-installing slide out - miscellaneous trim replaced.
9) Replaced door lock set and 10 hinges (not sure why).
10) Replaced two frameless windows (again not sure why but assume they were on the slide out they pulled).
11) Replaced four drawer slides (again not sure which ones or why).
12) Replaced nose cap lights when cap was off (found something they didn't like).
13) Found small tear in roof and repaired - installed drip rail.
14) Found floor under door side slide out was sagging - installed outrigger and replaced bulb seals, sealed pan area.
15) Removed and replaced emergency exit window (found something they did not like about it)
16) Replaced front wrap/skin (unsure what this is - mentions fiberglass and TPO Gooseneck). I know they dropped the filon to measure the flex.
17) Removed and replaced three rear door side bent outriggers - removed single replaced with double.
18) Added securement to every cleat all around kitchen island (moved too much) even though I had added some support.
19) Removed awning rail and re-installed, re-sealed - presume this is over the slide-out.
20) R&R axles, calipers, (assuming hubs, brakes, equalizers, springs, bushing, bolts, bearings, dust caps, u-bolts (bearings were packed by dealership but spindles had scorch marks from bearings).

 

[Timmer]

Glad to hear that GD is standing behind their products. Thanks for the post!

 

[dryfly]

Thought you might be interested in what GD found (over and above why it was at GD for things I knew about). Long list, a lot of things the techs just didn't like. The suspension, floor issues up front, and frame reinforcements were key for me but I'm sure glad they found the sagging floor under the main door side slide out, and replaced the underbelly (there were four holes in it from hanger replacement).
1) Lippert engineers came over to GD and inspected the frame including the hangers. The hangers are now aligned front-to-rear and properly spaced. (LCI did not catch the web crack in frame). GD discovered frame crack in web in front of door side equalizer and LCI came back to weld 1x2 on both sides the length of the rail.
2) R&R underbelly and wet insulation. No leaks found but suspicion was improper seal around the edge of the underbelly and frame allowed water in.
3) Removed front cap to fully measure flex. In spec but added gussets alon cross frame that supports pin box and in front of landing gear. All holes filled with 1/2" lags, lock washers, Sika. Carriage bolts replaced.
4) Rolled Linoleum back under the bed box and secured upper decking to the frame then re-installed linoleum. Unknown why upper decking was not attached to frame.
5) Removed main door-side slide out to inspect crack in wall above slide topper (I'm told it went to the paint shop but I don't know what exactly they found).
6) Replaced tires, rims, lugs due to premature wear from axle mis-alignment.
7) Replaced cargo door on off-door side due to mis-alignment and water leaking onto the Auto-leveling control panel.
8) Replaced main slide-out seals when re-installing slide out - miscellaneous trim replaced.
9) Replaced door lock set and 10 hinges (not sure why).
10) Replaced two frameless windows (again not sure why but assume they were on the slide out they pulled).
11) Replaced four drawer slides (again not sure which ones or why).
12) Replaced nose cap lights when cap was off (found something they didn't like).
13) Found small tear in roof and repaired - installed drip rail.
14) Found floor under door side slide out was sagging - installed outrigger and replaced bulb seals, sealed pan area.
15) Removed and replaced emergency exit window (found something they did not like about it)
16) Replaced front wrap/skin (unsure what this is - mentions fiberglass and TPO Gooseneck). I know they dropped the filon to measure the flex.
17) Removed and replaced three rear door side bent outriggers - removed single replaced with double.
18) Added securement to every cleat all around kitchen island (moved too much) even though I had added some support.
19) Removed awning rail and re-installed, re-sealed - presume this is over the slide-out.
20) R&R axles, calipers, (assuming hubs, brakes, equalizers, springs, bushing, bolts, bearings, dust caps, u-bolts (bearings were packed by dealership but spindles had scorch marks from bearings).

I'm glad you got the repairs made. Not to be cynical, but wouldn't it have been nice if these 20 issues, plus others you have had, had been addressed before the trailer ever left the factory as a new unit?

Grand Design is know for their "customer service", but is this a reasonable substitute for initially producing a quality product? I just know we pay a lot of money for these trailers and it seems like the new features just keep coming but the engineering and quality control doesn't match up.

 

[ajg617]

@dryfly To be honest, many of the issues may not have been noticeable at the factory after build - only appearing after we put miles on. The one that bothers me is Lippert's incorrect welding of the hangers on the chassis. In large part, I think that contributed to a lot of our problems. You assume LCI will send over a quality frame, alignment-wise but that wasn't the case here. The majority of items I never detected (bad on me I guess).

 

[dryfly]

@ajg617

I completely understand your points. It just doesn't seem logical it should be your responsibility to have to spend hours trying to find defects on your trailer when you bought it. And, just because these defects are not noticeable at first doesn't mean they are not there. Manufacturers have known about these cheap Lippert frames, as well as other components and the assembly quality of the trailers they build, for years and they've done nothing but continue to accept them.

In my humble opinion, good customer service is no substitute for selling a marginal product (and I'm not just talking about Grand Design). Please excused my venting on this subject...................

 

[Boomer58]

ajg617 and dryfly, I can agree with both of you on your posts about your trailers and the QC issues. I think some of the problems that occurred on our trailer could have been prevented with better QC right from the beginning, but I think a lot of the issues we experienced appeared after we started going down the road. I have looked at many different brands and found the QC in the GD trailers far exceeded what we found in other brands. When I retired, the first thing we went and did was go buy the Forest River trailer that we had looked at for 2 years. Going from a Teardrop that we had for 10 years to a trailer with heat/AC, a bathroom and a refrigerator was unbelievable. Once we took it out and started to see the crooked cabinets with handles that were installed by someone's Labrador Retriever (no offense to Labs but they are not known for their skills with a drill), to the gouges in the countertop that the salesman covered up with all of the paperwork, we feel that the QC for GD is much better than other brands. I'm sure there are people at GD that look at the reasons that trailers get returned to the factory for repairs and try to fix the problems before they ever leave the factory in the first place. I also feel that the dealers could do a better job with some of the issues that occurred.

 

[ajg617]

@Boomer58 @dryfly To be clear, I had not had a problem with anything that Grand Design put on top of the Lippert chassis that wasn't caused (I believe) by the poor quality of the chassis itself with one exception - the failed heat duct hook-up to the bedroom which was just a poor job at the GD factory. Could GD have found the out-of-alignment of the axles? Maybe if they added a quick check to their PDI. However, the amount of repairs performed at the factory far exceeded my expectations. Based on factory repairs of SOB trailers I've seen, it's no contest on the quality of repairs.

I put the dealership in your Labrador Retriever category. They "tried" to install two items at my request prior to delivery - two Battleborns which I gave them, and a Goosebox. When we tried to lower the Goosebox onto the ball it wouldn't seat. The service manager said I needed a smaller ball (WHAT????). Turns out I found the locking pin installed by Reese was 180 degrees out and a simple fix. I don't think anyone there had ever seen a LiFePO4 before - a whole other story.

 

[Boomer58]

I have had some positive dealings with some dealers before but it seems like a lot of them absolutely forget who you are when you hand them a check and then have an issue. I feel that many of them are very short sighted. Many of us will not buy just 1 RV. It seems that after you have an RV for a couple of years there is one that comes along that has a better layout and better features than the one you currently have. Also your lifestyle changes and what worked yesterday does not always work today. As I stated in my original story, because of the way we were treated after all of the issues we had, it was how they were resolved that our next trailer will be a GD product. Our 2023 is now basically a new trailer and hopefully the problems are gone and all we have to do is enjoy it.

 

[Captcolour]

@dryfly To be honest, many of the issues may not have been noticeable at the factory after build - only appearing after we put miles on. The one that bothers me is Lippert's incorrect welding of the hangers on the chassis. In large part, I think that contributed to a lot of our problems. You assume LCI will send over a quality frame, alignment-wise but that wasn't the case here. The majority of items I never detected (bad on me I guess).

Sounds like Grand Design should implement incoming quality control procedures on the Lippert frames before they are used. This may avoid a lot of problems down the road.