Question about towing and GVWR

[silvestravel]

Hello!

We're looking to upgrade our camper, just need a bit more space than we currently have. We're looking at purchasing a Grand Design 2600RB.

Tow vehicle:
2018 RAM 1500
Curb Weight: 5378.50
GVWR: 6900
GCVWR: 13,800
Towing Capacity: 7990
Payload: 1200


The GD 2600RB is:
UVW: 5795
GVWR: 7850
Hitch: 594


So I know the GVWR is pushing our limits of what we can tow, which with that comes safety concerns. The issue I'm having trouble getting a straight answer on is does the GVWR matter if we're not loading it up 100%. We know from our current camper that we added about 431lbs of cargo (CAT scale pre-trip minus the UVW of our current TT).

With that being considered rounding up to 500LBs, even 600lbs for error puts us at 6,395 lbs. Which is 1,595 lbs below our towing capacity.

The easy answer is get a 250 or 2500. Unfortunately just not in the cards at this moment. We just got the 1500 last year and then the camper. At the time with the market it was hard to find trucks and campers due to demand (more people camping due to COVID). We camped nearly every weekend last year and learned we need a bit more space and function.

All that to say I understand the point of the GVWR, but if we're not planning to load up, does it really matter in this case?
Open to any additional feedback.

Thanks in Advance!

 

[NB Canada]

The weight police will start commenting very soon


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew 1840 payload

 

[Capt Bob]

Well using your numbers you do indeed have a nice safety margin in "towing capacity" so....
Guesstimating tongue weight we'll use 12.5% x your trailer weight of 6395 lbs and that leaves you with 800lbs +/-.
What you don't know (at least in the post) is what your TV weights by itself, fully loaded.
We do know it has about 800lbs in it via the tongue.
Weighting the truck when full up for camping will get you a lot closer to the answer you seek, all "comforts/safety/opinions" aside.

 

[sande005]

You've got four potential limits to consider, more or less in this order:

1. Hitch capacity - usually a sticker on the bottom of the hitch. Essentially how much weight it is rated for. This would be the max tongue weight permissible. There are different amounts for dead weight vs using weight distributing.
2. Truck payload - the GVWR of the truck, minus what it currently weights for travel (without trailer). Includes all passengers, snacks, tools, etc., etc. Will be less than the "Payload sticker" due to the things added since it rolled off the factory floor. You hitch weight and tongue weight count against this, too.
3. The CGVWR - actual weight of the truck and trailer combined, all loaded with all passengers.
4. The towing capacity. But if you're good for the above three, this will be fine, also. The closer you get to this limit, the more you may struggle up steep hills.....

 

[silvestravel]

You've got four potential limits to consider, more or less in this order:

1. Hitch capacity - usually a sticker on the bottom of the hitch. Essentially how much weight it is rated for. This would be the max tongue weight permissible. There are different amounts for dead weight vs using weight distributing.
2. Truck payload - the GVWR of the truck, minus what it currently weights for travel (without trailer). Includes all passengers, snacks, tools, etc., etc. Will be less than the "Payload sticker" due to the things added since it rolled off the factory floor. You hitch weight and tongue weight count against this, too.
3. The CGVWR - actual weight of the truck and trailer combined, all loaded with all passengers.
4. The towing capacity. But if you're good for the above three, this will be fine, also. The closer you get to this limit, the more you may struggle up steep hills.....

1. Hitch says 1,400 lbs.
2. Estimating 650 - There's just two of us and a small dog. We load most of what we have in the camper not much other than wood in the truck bed.
3. Using what we had from our last CAT weigh in and subbing the Grand Design looks like we'd be about 13,720. Which puts us only 80lbs short of GCVWR

 

[NB Canada]

1. Hitch says 1,400 lbs.
2. Estimating 650 - There's just two of us and a small dog. We load most of what we have in the camper not much other than wood in the truck bed.
3. Using what we had from our last CAT weigh in and subbing the Grand Design looks like we'd be about 13,720. Which puts us only 80lbs short of GCVWR

How are you arriving at 13720??

5400+6400= 11800


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew 1840 payload

 

[Calnca]

The closer you get to this limit, the more you may struggle up steep hills.....

Most any truck can "pull" a lot of weight........the size and capacity of your TV comes into play when braking and making that 50 mph turn at the bottom of a 7% downgrade road.......it's not just about "can I pull it up the hill"

In this case, overkill is much better than the alternative.......

So does this make me part of the "weight police"?

 

[NB Canada]

Most any truck can "pull" a lot of weight........the size and capacity of your TV comes into play when braking and making that 50 mph turn at the bottom of a 7% downgrade road.......it's not just about "can I pull it up the hill"

In this case, overkill is much better than the alternative.......

So does this make me part of the "weight police"?

Maybe. But some half tons have bigger brakes than 3/4 tons
Trailers also have brakes to aid in stopping

A 2500 with worn brakes won’t stop faster than a 1/2 ton with new brakes
My Sierra also has down hill assist. I think every truck uses this technology
Driving through Fundy national park I only have to use the brakes slightly. The truck does the rest
As far as “reaching max” and climbing a hill?? It doesn’t really go together
I am quite positive “if I wanted too” I could crest a grade just as fast as a 2500 with a gas or a diesel loaded up
It is okay to rev a gas engine. 4000 rpms doesn’t hurt them


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew 1840 payload

 

[Ynot4me2]

Hello!

We're looking to upgrade our camper, just need a bit more space than we currently have. We're looking at purchasing a Grand Design 2600RB.

Tow vehicle:
2018 RAM 1500
Curb Weight: 5378.50
GVWR: 6900
GCVWR: 13,800
Towing Capacity: 7990
Payload: 1200


The GD 2600RB is:
UVW: 5795
GVWR: 7850
Hitch: 594


So I know the GVWR is pushing our limits of what we can tow, which with that comes safety concerns. The issue I'm having trouble getting a straight answer on is does the GVWR matter if we're not loading it up 100%. We know from our current camper that we added about 431lbs of cargo (CAT scale pre-trip minus the UVW of our current TT).

With that being considered rounding up to 500LBs, even 600lbs for error puts us at 6,395 lbs. Which is 1,595 lbs below our towing capacity.

The easy answer is get a 250 or 2500. Unfortunately just not in the cards at this moment. We just got the 1500 last year and then the camper. At the time with the market it was hard to find trucks and campers due to demand (more people camping due to COVID). We camped nearly every weekend last year and learned we need a bit more space and function.

All that to say I understand the point of the GVWR, but if we're not planning to load up, does it really matter in this case?
Open to any additional feedback.

Thanks in Advance!

Keep in mind that the UVW is without propane tanks and battery and that number advertised by GD might not be what the actual tt will be. Our 22mle weight sheet was a couple of hundred over the advertised UVW. Most of the folks here with Imagine and Imagine XLS run an average tongue weight of 12.5 to 13%.
So add maybe 100lbs for lp tanks and group 24 battery to the UVW plus what you figure you'll have for cargo and your wdh. There's plenty of true weight calculators on the web that you can use to paint a real picture. Our 22mle loaded fir camping with 1/3 fresh water comes in at 6000 lbs and 760 tongue weight. Our truck payload is at 1426 and we are close to our limit once people are loaded, geny, some tools and beer cooler are loaded. Personally I think you'll be over. Can you tow it, yep. Should you [emoji848] thats up to you.

Sent from my SM-P610 using Tapatalk

 

[Ynot4me2]

The weight police will start commenting very soon


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew 1840 payload

Really? Thats real constructive advice.

Sent from my SM-P610 using Tapatalk

 

[Calnca]

Maybe. But some half tons have bigger brakes than 3/4 tons
Trailers also have brakes to aid in stopping

A 2500 with worn brakes won’t stop faster than a 1/2 ton with new brakes
My Sierra also has down hill assist. I think every truck uses this technology
Driving through Fundy national park I only have to use the brakes slightly. The truck does the rest
As far as “reaching max” and climbing a hill?? It doesn’t really go together
I am quite positive “if I wanted too” I could crest a grade just as fast as a 2500 with a gas or a diesel loaded up
It is okay to rev a gas engine. 4000 rpms doesn’t hurt them


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew 1840 payload

 

[Second Chance]

The hitch weight you quote of 594 lbs. is an advertised empty hitch weight. Loaded, that hitch weight will more likely be in the 800 - 900 lb. range (could be over 900 if loaded to GVWR). Here's a helpful tool:

http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-trailer-weight-tt.shtml

Rob

 

[ckreef]

Second Chance is spot on. Here are my real world numbers of our 2020 2600rb. This is loaded for camping. Cargo is me and Mrs skreef along with full tank of gas, minimum items in the truck, and full propane bottles. No water in any of the holding tanks. Correctly adjusted WDH.

2609rb - 6,860 lbs
Tongue - 840 lbs (12.9%)
Truck Cargo Weight - 1,390 lbs

Your problem is going to be with your cargo carrying capacity. Shifting weight to the back of the trailer might give you less tongue weight but already I'm only at 12.9%. Less than that and the trailer is more prone to sway.

 

[Mjmnklm]

I don’t mean to be short, but you’re looking for a definitive answer when there is a great deal of gray area. You obviously know your numbers. So:

By the numbers, you can tow your trailer safely provided:
1. You use a premium WD Hitch that also has sway reduction.
2. Your truck is in optimal safety condition, mechanically
3. You don’t overload your truck with passengers / cargo

Even so, you will still have times when your trailer is influencing your truck more than the reverse. It’s during those times (like the downhill turn scenario listed earlier) you will have to be sure you are aware of the physics of the setup. Make sure you use caution and keep an eye on the numbers.

That being said, I had a similar situation with my RAM 1500 with a 3.21 rear end. When we switched to a 2500 with a 3.71 rear end we gained 5k lbs more towing capacity and over 1000 lbs more cargo capacity. With a built in break controller and auto levelers, that thing makes a world of difference.

So be safe, go slow, you’ll be fine. But when you are able, upgrade your truck. You won’t believe the difference.

 

[silvestravel]

Thanks for all the information. While I understand there's not a one size fits all, seems like it boils down to we can tow it, but how much do we want to be pushing the bar for what we should be towing.
We just got the 1500 last year, and looking at additional TT we can tow with a 1500 we're limited more than we thought. Talking now if it's worth getting a 2500 now or waiting it out and getting a 2500 down the road.

Really appreciate all of the information this forum has provided.

 

[Mjmnklm]

Now you’re seeing the bigger picture. A half ton truck can do a lot of things, but when it comes to pulling, it’s the baby of the pack. The 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are made for that purpose. That’s why, IMHO, 1/2 ton towable fifth wheels are a marketing created fallacy. The half ton truck, even maxxed out for towing, just doesn’t have the stones.

Let us know if you get a RAM 2500. My wife loves hers.

 

[Bags4266]

I bought the same TT. Taking possession in 3 weeks. I was on the fence with my 2020 f150 3.5 eco boost. I’m sitting back and reading the comments now.

 

[Chief T]

Thanks for all the information. While I understand there's not a one size fits all, seems like it boils down to we can tow it, but how much do we want to be pushing the bar for what we should be towing.
We just got the 1500 last year, and looking at additional TT we can tow with a 1500 we're limited more than we thought. Talking now if it's worth getting a 2500 now or waiting it out and getting a 2500 down the road.

Really appreciate all of the information this forum has provided.

I commend you for doing your homework now. Your margins are slim... I think you'll be under GCVWR, but your payload of 1200 is concerning. Ram 1500s are notorious for low payload ratings. So, let's start there. You state 1200 lbs for payload. Take 1200 minus the weight of yourself, your dear wife, and the pooch. With this number will reflect the allowable tongue weight. The weight sheet of the TT will probably show a tongue weight closer to 800 lbs, then you need to add the weight of a WDH, and you need to add the weight of the stuff you put in the front bay. Your profile doesn't state where you live, but on flat land you may be OK. Personally i would look at more truck or a smaller trailer.

I'm in kinda the same boat. My truck is more than capable, but when we bring the kayaks we are maxed out on payload/GVWR towing our 22 MLE. We love to go to Colorado and with the grades, a 3/4 ton is in my future.

You have some tough decisions ahead of you and I hope you make the one that is best for you and your family.

Safe and happy travels.

 

[BigSam]

I think your cargo and passenger weight is very low. I pull a 2500RL with a 2020 F150 4x4 with a cargo and passenger limit of 2066#. Your hitch weight, truck bed cover, passengers weight and everything you carry in your truck has to be under this weight. I haul a generator, fuel for the generator, a Jackery, tools and etc. in the covered truck bed.

 

[NB Canada]

I think your cargo and passenger weight is very low. I pull a 2500RL with a 2020 F150 4x4 with a cargo and passenger limit of 2066#. Your hitch weight, truck bed cover, passengers weight and everything you carry in your truck has to be under this weight. I haul a generator, fuel for the generator, a Jackery, tools and etc. in the covered truck bed.

“Should be” under this weight not “has to be”


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew