Real world 21BHE tongue weight?

[mekatzer]

This isn't intended to be a "tell me how far over I can go"... Looking to understand if I can safely pull a 21BHE with a nicely equipped dodge half ton. Now the long version:


Put a deposit down on a 21BHE last weekend, excited to get the family out in the woods more, but need to get something to pull the darn thing first. We're in the PNW and will likely cross the cascades ~50% of the time we hit the road. TV will also be a daily driver, so although the wisdom of the internet seems to be F350 and take all the other seats out, this will also be a daily driver that needs to navigate Seattle traffic and so I'm gravitating toward the Laramie/Limited (mostly for the air suspension) Ram 1500s with either the Diesel or eTorque Hemi, 3.92 axle, and the fancy tow steering knob thingey.

Payloads on the trucks I'm looking at range from 1,707 (hey a truck), to 1,504 (hey this is a nice truck) to 1,373 (heyyyyyy now. this is a truck?).

I'm estimating 550 lbs which covers 2 full size humans, 2 miniature humans with toys, seats, and room to grow, a dog, snacks, normal lightweight cabin stuff, and ~ 75lbs of buffer.

21BHE on the website is 4698 dry, 6,395 GVWR, so 10/12/15% tongues give me: 639.5, 767.4, 959.25 lbs, which is a pretty big range given the payload I'm trying to fit into. Dealer service dept says 10%, but they've got different incentives than I do.

So weight requirement range: 1189.5 - 1509.25, truck payloads 1,373-1,504 (1,707 if I have to but I really like the 1,504 one)

I'd like to think I can be judicious about packing and not load the truck and trailer to the max, but these kids will grow and I'm sure the temptation to "just throw that in" goes up when it's a big ole trailer instead of a packed roof box. The biggest variable to me seems to be the tongue weight, so I'm curious what folks are seeing for real-world weights with the 21BHE?

Also what gets worse the closer I get to payload capacity? Stress on axles? Loss of control?

 

[SmokeyBear]

I would look at a 3/4 ton truck at a minimum. You want a solid tow vehicle that can handle not only your current cargo, but kids grow and you find adding more stuff to your camper. If you live the PNW, I would get a diesel too. I had a gasser for a long time and it did great, but last time I was in the mountains I told my wife we are not coming back out west until we get a diesel. Once you get your truck and camper, best thing to do is to go to a CAT scale

 

[tfgd21bhe]

I'm easily towing my 2020 21bhe with a 2019 Chevy colorado crew cab 4x4. My 21bhe weighs in at 5500 lbs fully loaded for use (but with empty tanks) and has a tongue weight of 600lbs. The colorado is fine for us (2 adults), but between your intended use in the mtns and and 4 people plus pets you'll be better served by a 1500.

 

[mekatzer]

Thanks for the quick response Smokey. Is the driver for 3/4 ton driven mainly by payload capacity or are there other things I'm not considering that make 1/2 not a great idea.

I edited the original post with a bit more detail around my cabin weight calcs, included a 1/2 ton option I found with 1,707 payload, and included the dealer's response on loaded tongue weight which I'm treating as interesting but not gospel.

 

[mekatzer]

Thanks tfgd, so around 11% on the tongue for you.

 

[Ynot4me2]

We have a similar tt in terms of length, weight. The 22mle and tow with a f150 Lariat. Payload of 1426. Loaded for camping just DW and I with 1/3 fresh water we're at 6000 give or take and and a tongue weight of 760. Most GD tw will run approx 12.5%. I'm just within my limits and always have to be mindful of what and how we pack due to payload. If you don't have the TV yet then I'd be seriously looking at a 3/4 maybe even 1t since there not really a price difference between the 2 and load/pack what you need/want. Keep in mind that anything added to the TV reduces payload, so tonneau, bedliner.....

 

[Hitsman3]

I don't have a the same trailer, but something slightly bigger. My tongue weight is around 730#'s according to the CAT scale but varies from trip to trip as you stated. I'm within my trucks payload of 1640#'s but it's just my wife & I & are goldendoodle. There are times I wish I had gotten a 3/4ton when pulling the trailer. My truck pulls it just fine power wise but there are times you definitely know its back there. My buddy has a 3/4 Chevy diesel with a 26000RB & you never feel the trailer. If you got a 3/4 ton now might not have to upgrade your truck as your kids get bigger and they want to bring friends. Other thought is if you decide down the road you want to get a bigger trailer will you have to upgrade the 1/2 ton than as well? Decisions, Decisions! Good to see another fellow PNW owner on here!
Check out the Leavenworth KOA if you get a chance! Hope to see you around.

 

[NB Canada]

This trailer is definitely not in the “3/4 ton needed”
My days
A half ton is fine for this


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew

 

[mekatzer]

Thanks everyone for the responses, it was super helpful and appreciate the community here.

Closing the loop here - I’ve seen a lot of 21BHE threads (hey cool we picked a good, or at least popular one) and a lot of “can x tow y” (sounds familiar). Wound up with a 1/2 ton Sierra, crew cab, slt, max tow, nicely equipped (a/c seats but no sunroof) and 1770 lbs on the door sticker. I’d gotten used to the transparency of dodge’s vin lookup tool and found it really frustrating that other manufacturers didn’t do the same, so if you’re shopping for a 1/2 ton TV, here’s a data point.

 

[Tgunter5]

Thanks everyone for the responses, it was super helpful and appreciate the community here.

Closing the loop here - I’ve seen a lot of 21BHE threads (hey cool we picked a good, or at least popular one) and a lot of “can x tow y” (sounds familiar). Wound up with a 1/2 ton Sierra, crew cab, slt, max tow, nicely equipped (a/c seats but no sunroof) and 1770 lbs on the door sticker. I’d gotten used to the transparency of dodge’s vin lookup tool and found it really frustrating that other manufacturers didn’t do the same, so if you’re shopping for a 1/2 ton TV, here’s a data point.

I'm sure the transparency of that look up tool is great but you can't beat the towing info GM puts on all (GMC and Chevrolet) of their vehicle's now. Remember the tow/tongue limits are calculated at 10% and 20% for gooseneck. Great truck and trailer combo!!! Happy camping!!!!

 

[CWSWine]

I'm sure the transparency of that look up tool is great but you can't beat the towing info GM puts on all (GMC and Chevrolet) of their vehicle's now. Remember the tow/tongue limits are calculated at 10% and 20% for gooseneck. Great truck and trailer combo!!! Happy camping!!!!

You are correct on the 10% but the gooseneck is at 15% not 20%. Here is the link to the info.

The SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) J2807 States the exceed in GVWR is reason to fail towing test. (Par 5.4)
http://fifthwheelst.com/documents/tow-test-standards-2016-02.pdf

 

[Tgunter5]

You are correct on the 10% but the gooseneck is at 15% not 20%. Here is the link to the info.

The SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) J2807 States the exceed in GVWR is reason to fail towing test. (Par 5.4)
http://fifthwheelst.com/documents/tow-test-standards-2016-02.pdf

Whoops! Thanks for the update

 

[mekatzer]

Finally had a route that took me past a CAT scale, where I spent way too long reweighing at each link on the swaypro. For the purposes of closing the loop on this thread:

5,660 with a little less than 1/3rd a tank of water, two mostly full propane cylinders, and a weekend's worth of stuff loaded (no food/beer).

1,000lb bars on the swaypro:

Tongue Weight:
Link 9/10: 640
Link 11: 700
Unhooked: 760

I used this spreadsheet: https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16554&d=1543714648