Reflection concern

[dryfly]

I am about to pull the trigger on a purchase of a 150 Series Reflection 5th wheel. I just sold my current 5th wheel, and after owning it for 10 years it never made one trip back to a dealer for service. A lot of small issues over the years but nothing I couldn't fix myself.

About a year ago when I started shopping for a new trailer, Grand Design seemed to stick out as one of the best for quality. Now after reading lots and lots of posts I'm really getting concerned about the many recurring issues, i.e. water leaks, slide problems, decals peeling, furniture cracking and peeling, etc.

I realize any brand of trailer can have problems, and we are living in a time of very poor quality control by the manufacturers. But, why after hearing these problems doesn't GD change their manufacturing to rectify these recurring issues? I read stories about folks who have trailers that spend weeks at the dealer awaiting repairs, and some that never seem to get them resolved.

I know some owners cannot replace a drawer/cabinet handle by themselves, or resolve any other small repair, and they get bent out of shape. But even with the many satisfied owners on this forum, I still am really getting concerned about a purchase. I do not have a GD dealer close by, so any repair would be hauling the trailer 100 miles.

Sorry for the rant, but after owning several trailers over the last 40 years, this will be the first time I've purchased one that I'm really unsure of.

 

[bertschb]

I've owned two Grand Design RV's and they have both been virtually trouble free. I don't think the quality of Grand Design RV's is necessarily any better than any other manufacturer. What sets them apart is their customer service. I continue to read some pretty amazing stories about how Grand Design has stepped up and provided outstanding support after the sale.

Also, keep in mind internet forums are where people go to look for help fixing issues they have with whatever they own (cars, boats, electronics, appliances, etc.). The vast majority of people who have no problems never seek out a forum to ask for help. That's why it appears there are a lot of problems with a particular product when you go to that forum. This forum is no different.

Good luck!

 

[KirbyRVA]

While we have been disappointed with several things on our Solitude, I read about similar issues about other brands. I don't think any of the mass produced trailers in the same price range are built with any real focus on quality. You get what you get. Also, they all use most of the same stuff as accessories.

IMO, if you want better build quality you would need to spend the bucks for something like a New Horizons or find a nice used rig like those made by Newmar when they were making 5th wheels.

It is perplexing why Grand Design hasn't addressed some of the often reported issues like the leaking water hoses. They seem to just stubbornly continue to repeat the same mistakes or they are 'stuck on stupid.' I suspect cost has a lot to do with it.

I know many folks on this forum brag about GD's outstanding customer service. All I can say is during three discussions with service folks at GD about a glaring mistake they made when my rig was built, they talked in circles and offered little in terms of solution. I will say I have been very pleased with the service provided by my dealer, Camper's Inn in Myrtle Beach, SC.

 

[Steve7]

Hi dryfly,

I don’t blame you for being concerned, but I agree with the above posts. I have only had minor issues, and I corrected them quickly. Mostly falling trim and sheared off screw heads. GD sent me the screws at my request, and sent me a bathroom mirror cabinet door, also at my request. As far as two items you mentioned, the peeling furniture seems to be from the earlier furniture, maybe 2015 model year. If I’m wrong I’m sure someone will correct me. The decals need to be taken care of with some type of protection, such as Aerospace 303 spray. I use it several times a year to protect from UV rays. They do have a five year warranty, but it does not cover labor. Mine look brand new after 2.5 years.

I wouldn’t hesitate to buy another GD, but if I found an RV with what I desired from another brand (as long as it doesn’t have a terrible service reputation), I might go that way also. Parts are parts.

There are things I can’t understand though, such as the continued use of the problematic water lines in some places. I’ve been fortunate and have not had any of those issues.

There are many, many satisfied GD customers to go along with the few that report trailers with numerous issues.

 

[Country Campers]

dryfly

We found this forum after we bought our GD unit. I lurked here for about 6 months or so and I wondered the same thing you are asking , why did I buy from this manufacture?
When we were shopping we were looking for certain things on our list for the next camper. After looking in many campers , trailers and fifth wheels , from lots of manufacturers we found the GD unit we bought. It checked almost all of the boxes , the ones that it did not check were not that important , so we purchased it , not based on anything just our own eyes and want list. After finding and reading this forum I wondered if we made a mistake. Greased brakes , leaking plumbing , de-lamination , are BIG concerns. But as stated above , only people with problems or the ones that want to be heard , go out on the web and start complaining , so this is a small sample of the amount of rv's that GD has out there with no problems.
We have had only a few little things that we have fixed and GD has fixed with no issues or complaints. Would I buy another GD product?, maybe , maybe not, depends on our needs at the time and who has the most on our want list , but I would not rule out that they will get the first look.

Good luck and remember they are all about the same , just different graphics and colors.

Brian

 

[the.jmo]

I am fairly disappointed with GD quality at the moment. I've had my '15 380th momentum for 2 years. It has been great to me, I've made recommendations for GD wherever I can drop one.
The most recent recommendation went to my parents. Who just purchased a '19 381 momentum. I can stand and say the build quality, in my opinion. Awful. I'm very disappointed in the workmanship in their 19 vs my 15. It seems to have gone downhill substantially. They have had this unit only a few weeks now, and it has had enough problems that they are considering dropping it back at the dealer and walking away from it. And I don't blame them one bit.
Trim pieces falling off left and right, suspension issue, brake issue, fridge broke already. It seems as every piece of interior trim has come unscrewed, their tablet control center has been warrantied already. I dont care to go through the whole list of problems, but based on their unit I would not spend the money on another momentum.
If you want to deal with issues, you can get a heartland for half the price

Also, to speak on the notion of GD customer service, I've only had to contact them once for a part needed for my correct track (axle centering)
A piece fell off somewhere between CA and OR and I called GD up, basically my response was call lippert. They made it. Not our problem. I explained to the young lady, I have no problem paying if I am out of warranty, but not getting the part is not an option.
My response again was, call lippert. We didnt make it. We dont have it.
Can I ask if you have that number available?
No -click.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[dryfly]

Thanks for the replies. I realize owners come here looking for solutions to problems, and usually not to brag how trouble free their trailer is. I browse other RV forums and the results are the same. BUT, on the other hand, who knows how many folks there are out there that never get on forums and tell us of their successes and failures.

I look at this forum as a sample of owners, who are educated on trailers. The results of this small sample concern me. As to GD customer service, the results are the same. Some customers are treated great, while others are ignored.

I sold my 10 year old trailer because it was just getting to the end of it's life cycle. Wish I could have justified keeping it. last year, wanting to downsize, I found a 150 Series Reflection floorplan that really fits our needs. I simply can't find another brand that offers a 30' 5th wheel that offers the features of the Reflection, so I guess I'll be a new owner like it or not.

I just wish I could get a little excited about having a new trailer. If a car company built cars like RV manufacturers build trailers, how long do you think they would be in business?

 

[TahoeTrekker]

We have a 2015 Reflection 303 and have had very minor issues. None of the decal problems, no peeling furniture …….. even out of warranty GD has come through for me a couple of times...…. including sending a switch to me at no charge while camping in Wyoming. I will say for me, the best thing I did was find an independent repair shop near me that has done any warranty work I needed as well as some mods. The trailer has never been back to the dealer and never had to deal with those long repair turn around times. I listen to all my friends and their stories about their trailer issues and count my blessings we picked a GD product.

 

[dryfly]

We have a 2015 Reflection 303 and have had very minor issues. None of the decal problems, no peeling furniture …….. even out of warranty GD has come through for me a couple of times...…. including sending a switch to me at no charge while camping in Wyoming. I will say for me, the best thing I did was find an independent repair shop near me that has done any warranty work I needed as well as some mods. The trailer has never been back to the dealer and never had to deal with those long repair turn around times. I listen to all my friends and their stories about their trailer issues and count my blessings we picked a GD product.

And that brings up a question: is it true the GD will work with third party repair on warranty work? Naturally the owner would have to pay for the work then get reimbursed by GD. Only fair.

 

[Calbar]

Thanks for the replies. I realize owners come here looking for solutions to problems, and usually not to brag how trouble free their trailer is. I browse other RV forums and the results are the same. BUT, on the other hand, who knows how many folks there are out there that never get on forums and tell us of their successes and failures.

I look at this forum as a sample of owners, who are educated on trailers. The results of this small sample concern me. As to GD customer service, the results are the same. Some customers are treated great, while others are ignored.

I sold my 10 year old trailer because it was just getting to the end of it's life cycle. Wish I could have justified keeping it. last year, wanting to downsize, I found a 150 Series Reflection floorplan that really fits our needs. I simply can't find another brand that offers a 30' 5th wheel that offers the features of the Reflection, so I guess I'll be a new owner like it or not.

I just wish I could get a little excited about having a new trailer. If a car company built cars like RV manufacturers build trailers, how long do you think they would be in business?

We sold our 11 year old trailer too. Also bought Grand Design Reflection. Heard about the better fit and finish and liked the layout and look. Found this forum after we bought and then I also got concerned about some of the issues like the flexible water pipe and the axle hangers. Had delamination with the previous trailer and axle bearing issues twice. Even had things that I needed to repair like crushed heat ducts with poor flow that the dealer just couldn't seem to fix. We have had a number of things on a list that needed to be fixed and hope that the major issues stay away. Dealer and GD have been very good to deal with. Missed a big chip under the grates of the kitchen stove and only noticed it on the first trip. Dealer didn't think GD would cover because we could have done it after PDI but they did. Even shipped the stove top right to our house so I wouldn't have to make the 2.5 hour drive to the dealer.

GM, Ford and Chrysler did build cars like today's RV manufacturers build RVs up to the mid 80's when they didn't have a choice but to change. They were and are still sometimes horrible to deal with on warranty issues and they all still have their lemons, even Toyota and Honda. Seems like the trailer fits your need, has all the features you want so if you are going to buy cheer up and enjoy it. Likely have some issues but why worry about bigger ones and letting that ruin your fun. Deal with them if/when they happen and use the excellent sources here to help you along the way.

Rob

 

[bertschb]

Not that my experience will change your mind but we spent three winters in our Reflection before we decided we wanted something larger. We had such a great experience with our Reflection that we didn't even shop other brands when we bought our Solitude. We spent last winter in that unit and had the same trouble free experience. No regrets here at all.

Now our friends with Luxe and DRV Suites....they've all had major problems. They assume since we own a less expensive RV that we're having similar issues but we don't have the heart to tell them that our Grand Design products have been virtually trouble free at a fraction of the cost of their "high end" units.

Grand Design is far from perfect and could easily make improvements in many areas. My biggest pet peeve is the rats nest of wiring behind the basement. But, overall, they make decent RV's with good floor plans and back them up with what many consider the best support in the business. Can you do worse with another manufacturer? Yes. Can you do better? Maybe.

 

[Country Campers]

And that brings up a question: is it true the GD will work with third party repair on warranty work? Naturally the owner would have to pay for the work then get reimbursed by GD. Only fair.

Yes, if under warranty and you are far from a dealer or you do not like what your dealer has done, they will pay for a mobile tech to repair a warranty item. You , however , will be liable for the cost of the tech to get to you. This is another thing that not many , if any , other manufactures do.
Be excited , you are getting a floor plan that you like, and think you may be pleasantly surprised.

Brian

 

[TahoeTrekker]

Using my local independent repair shop was simple. They were able to get any warranty work pre approved from GD and I never had to pay out of pocket and get reimbursed. I cant say this would be true with all repair shops but it was with mine.

 

[Fishwater]

Unfortunately, comparing a 10 year old camper to anything new isn’t a fair comparison. RV “quality “ has always been pretty poor but the newer units are worse. I was a service manager at a large RV dealership in the early 2000’s, the quality at that time was shoddy, mostly due to rushed construction with lots of crooked doors, stripped screws, rats nest wiring & leaky plumbing. Unfortunately the RV industry hasn’t learned or improved much, in fact seems worse. Production numbers are up, more rushed units but yet the sales numbers are higher than ever.

Now that all of that is out of the way the reality is that from what I saw in our recent search for a new camper the Grand Design was the better constructed unit. We looked at Jayco, Forest River, Cougar, Laredo, etc all of them had issues. What impressed me was that out of all the units the Grand Design needed the least prep, seams were tighter, screws were in place, caulked around the seams properly without excess oozing out, roof seals looked good, decent quality fixtures, etc. it’s a gamble with whatever you buy but I felt confident enough to spend my money on the Reflection.

We just got back from our maiden voyage, unfortunately it wasn’t without problems though. Two issues, the first was water pouring out from the bottom of the camper while my daughter showered. I removed the access panel in the basement & found the shower drain wasn’t connected to the rest of the plumbing. It looks to me like it was cut an inch to short, maybe it came out during transit but who knows, fortunately it was as simple as slipping the pipe back into the p-trap & tightening the clamp. I’ll probably replace the drain pipe & add an inch but it was fine the rest of the weekend. I also found two clamps on the pex that were dripping a few drops, pulled the clamps off & replaced with hose clamps with no other issues. Other than that we absolutely love the camper, fortunately our issues were something I was able to easily take care of, less than half an hour to repair. For me I know that all campers can have issues, so I wasn’t too upset. Should they happen? No....but unfortunately they do....what matters is that once you work your way through the issues is that you are happy with your purchase.

Good luck in the hunt for a new camper, it feels overwhelming at times but you’re doing the right thing by researching, just take everything you read with a grain of salt & trust your instincts when you’re looking at things in person.

 

[chillybob]

I’ve had a few issues with my GD Reflection 327. I’ve also have modified a number of areas to make the unit more comfortable in cooler weather. I have to give the GD warranty department high marks and fit and finish inside high marks. Under the surface, low marks. For a few hundred dollars per unit there can be a vast improvement to the under the surface issues. Overall, I’m very satisfied with the unit.

 

[ksbowman]

We are extremely pleased with our 2016 GD Reflection 303rls. We bought it in the summer of 2018. The previous owner did have a leak repaired on the Cant Leak panel. I replaced one rear jack switch and we are having peeling on the theater seating and will replace it with stick and brick furniture. Our previous 5th was a Keystone Outback and it had many problems in the 6 years we had it including an electrical short, replace convertor, water heater ( after an electrical fire in it's wiring in the middle of the night). The fire was rather exciting at 3 in the morning with the wife getting our dogs out while I ripped paneling off with my hands and a screwdriver. Lucky a water line melted and helped put out the fire. I will buy GD again if I live long enough. LOL

 

[MarkRizRV]

Dryfly,
We have had our 2018 150 series 230RL since April 2018 and love it, only had minor issues that I was able to take care of.
Mark

 

[smharstedt]

We have a 2018 295RL, overall we have been very happy. There have been some issues, but I have been able to fix all of them so far. RVs are built by people who can make mistakes, no matter what brand you go with there will be something that goes wrong.

 

[WhittleBurner]

Our 2014 has been fairly trouble free but do agree about todays production quality compared to back then. We have seriously thought about an upgrade but knowing what we have vs the unknown new possible issues has made us a little hesitant to jump into a new build. Besides they haven't quite come out with what we want yet. Came close to settling then changed our minds and don't want to settle on the floorplan and the important things to us.

Production is much more rushed now and with more units built there will be more reported issues all over the internet. One thing you can fall back on is they do still have a commitment to take care of issues for the most part. They aren't perfect and likely never will be. If you ever have a problem with a service person from GD on the phone or your dealer go over their heads, they aren't the last word.

 

[svanarts]

Our 2014 has been fairly trouble free but do agree about todays production quality compared to back then. We have seriously thought about an upgrade but knowing what we have vs the unknown new possible issues has made us a little hesitant to jump into a new build. Besides they haven't quite come out with what we want yet. Came close to settling then changed our minds and don't want to settle on the floorplan and the important things to us.

Production is much more rushed now and with more units built there will be more reported issues all over the internet. One thing you can fall back on is they do still have a commitment to take care of issues for the most part. They aren't perfect and likely never will be. If you ever have a problem with a service person from GD on the phone or your dealer go over their heads, they aren't the last word.

I am wondering if the build quality started to get slightly worse after Winnebago purchased GD? I've been a GD fan for a long time but I'm a little concerned.