RV surge protectors- wired vs post mounted, and modifying a post mounted one?`

[Jhdarizona]

I hardwired the Watchdog to protect my Victron system. Completely satisfied and one less thing to deal with when hooking up. It’s in the belly of my 5th wheel.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

I hardwired the Watchdog to protect my Victron system. Completely satisfied and one less thing to deal with when hooking up. It’s in the belly of my 5th wheel.

I see this quite a bit when discussing permanent vs plug-in EMS. I keep my EMS plugged into the trailer power cord, so I simply plug the EMS into the park power outlet rather than my trailer power cord. If you never unplug the EMS from the trailer power cord, which there is no reason to do, why would there be "one less thing to deal with"?

 

[Tripleblessing]

Hughs Watchdog here too. Pedestal mounted. I like the replaceable fuse in the Watchdog. When first purchased I locked it every time until one trip the key to the lock was left at home. Didn’t discover this until checkout time and ready to disconnect power. Maintenance used a small pair of bolt cutter to cut the cable. Haven’t locked it since.

 

[c130bill]

We also went with the hard wired progressive for our 303. Disconnected the inside wire from the outside plug and attached to the out of EMS. Bought 3 ft of wire and attached to plug and EMS in. Did not shorten the original wire so it could be reattached as original if needed.

 

[c130bill]

I installed the hard wired unit easy to install. No problems so far. Like the remote readout

 

[BewareTheLamb]

I decided on a Progressive hard-wired unit. I had heard of people concerned about theft, but my reasons were different.

One reason was that our set-up and tear-down is a little quicker with one less item to plug in outside. For my GD Imagine XLS 22MLE, it worked out nicely to mount it under one of the dinette bench seats right next to the converter, power panel. Since my Progressive model has a display, I have it available for easy viewing. I still need to move the display out from under the seat for quicker viewing.

Since I also added a Hughes Autoformer voltage booster I was able to have them all together. Instead of literally hard-wiring the units though, I used plugs so I could bypass as needed.

I put the Autoformer in line before the EMS to handle any voltage drops before the EMS decides it needs to shut down due to low power.

Note that the hard-wired approach puts the all the detection at the RV instead of the pole. Some people claim this might detect a voltage drop caused by the long power cord from the trailer to the pole (especially if using an extension cord). An EMS at the pole might see borderline voltage and think it's OK, but a voltage drop introduced by the trailer connection could mean low voltage actually at the point of use. An argument for this approach:

I do use a less expensive surge protector at the pole to check for polarity and provide a sacrificial box for something bad happening.

...Mike

 

[RickLight]

I have a hardwired Progressive EMS.

I use several power cords. A normal 30ft, a 10ft extension or main, and a 50ft 20A household. A portable EMS would be a pain.

 

[ScottK]

I have the Watchdog pole mount, but since you're installing a Victron 3000, you don't really need the EMS capability (the Victron handles the low voltage issues all by itself). All you need is surge protection and line analysis (meaning checking for correct wiring in the pedestal). Also, if you have to plug into a GFCI anywhere, you will need to be able to bypass the surge/EMS unit in order to get around a bug in the Victron 3000 that causes it to fault with GFCI. The solution is to bypass the ground, but the Watchdog, or whatever unit you get will error on no ground, hence the need to bypass.

 

[RickLight]

Your terminology leaves me confused.
EMS products do line connection analysis, frequency measurement and high/low voltage cutoff. That's what I would call line analysis. Your inverter voltage boost handles low voltage, but will it alert you to reversed polarity?

 

[ScottK]

Your terminology leaves me confused.
EMS products do line connection analysis, frequency measurement and high/low voltage cutoff. That's what I would call line analysis. Your inverter voltage boost handles low voltage, but will it alert you to reversed polarity?

I only mean checking for correct wiring.

 

[RickLight]

Surge protectors don't do that, therefore an EMS!

 

[ScottK]

Surge protectors don't do that, therefore an EMS!

Or you can test it before plugging in with a tester. Or use one that does include it.

Surge Guard 44390 Portable Surge Protector with Enhanced Diagnostics - 50 AMP

This is the Surge Guard 50 Amp 44390 Surge protector, and can protect your RV against up to 4200 joules. This is a perfect unit for travel trailers, pop-ups and any smaller type RV. This unit also will test for and indicate for the following: Open neutral Open ground Reverse polarity Open...

technorv.com

 

[tcfulmer]

On my past couple trailers I've used post mount Watchdogs. I always carry a few various lengths of homemade wire rope cables and several padlocks that are keyed alike. That way I can lock up just about anything I need to when I need to. I've always found a combination where I can lock the Watchdogs to the post itself.

 

[Jhdarizona]

I see this quite a bit when discussing permanent vs plug-in EMS. I keep my EMS plugged into the trailer power cord, so I simply plug the EMS into the park power outlet rather than my trailer power cord. If you never unplug the EMS from the trailer power cord, which there is no reason to do, why would there be "one less thing to deal with"?

Leaving it on your cord is a good idea and reminder to use it. I didn’t want the risk of it being stolen or me being lazy and not use it. Also takes up space. We can go about 5 days without being plugged in so it not a big deal to plug in most of the time. I also no longer carry the 50 amp power cord. Way to stiff, heavy and takes up too much space in the storage bin.

 

[ScottK]

Surge protectors don't do that, therefore an EMS!

Surge Guard 44390 Portable Surge Protector with Enhanced Diagnostics - 50 AMP

This is the Surge Guard 50 Amp 44390 Surge protector, and can protect your RV against up to 4200 joules. This is a perfect unit for travel trailers, pop-ups and any smaller type RV. This unit also will test for and indicate for the following: Open neutral Open ground Reverse polarity Open...

technorv.com

This one does.

 

[txloser]

The only downside of the pedestal mounted EMS is leaving it behind. I’ve left behind a much cheaper surge protector. It would really sting to leave this thing behind.

Beyond that, I guess I just like the simplicity of it. If it fails, I just purchase another. Nothing to install/remove.

All that being said, the convenience of only pulling out the power chord would be nice. No perfect solution here.

 

[Da Breeze]

Thanks everyone- I think I'll just get a post mounted one. First, they're cheaper, and second of all they have an easily read error code system- without hooking up to bluetooth. Maybe down the road. I had thought that theft might be a big problem, but really- there are a ton out there, and probably they're going to steal a more expensive one that I bought. If not, I can get a new one.

I'm with you David. I've had a post mounted Progressive since 2001 and like the convenience of seeing any error codes right upfront BEFORE doing ANY set up at the site.

I DID add a small chain and lock that secures around the pedestal just for peace of mind, though.

Plus, I've had to swap this out (lifetime guarantee) a couple of times , while doing extended cross country trips and a hard wired unit would've been much more troublesome in those circumstances.

Michael

 

[DandS-303]

I installed the hard wired unit easy to install. No problems so far. Like the remote readout

I mounted our readout at the end of the hutch so it could be seen when coming in the door.

 

[dryfly]

This is a debate that happens on virtually every RV forum out there - pedestal vs. hardwired. Yes, the pedestal version of a quality EMS will catch most electrical problems that occur before the power cord and hopefully trip in the event of a major surge. The only problem is that, more often than not, the power cord itself contributes to power issues.

Since one of the biggest issues, especially at older parks is low voltage (a silent killer of many RV appliances and components), you would want that EMS to be sampling the power as close to your breaker panel as possible. I can’t tell you how many times I have seen a corroded or burned plug that was not detected by a high priced EMS simply because the problem occurred downstream from the EMS. The voltage sampled by the pedestal EMS could be acceptable, however, the high resistance that was created by the bad connection in the plug can result in a significant drop in voltage as measured at the breaker panel.

Electrical adapters (dog bones) and extension cords all add resistance to the circuit, and all will drop the incoming voltage some, depending on the current draw. These things all eventually wear out - contacts become loose or corroded, wires break from bending and straightening. If you are vigilant about inspecting and maintaining electrical cords and adapters, you will most likely never have a problem with either type of EMS.

The debate between pedestal mounted and hardwired EMS will likely go on forever. If folks could understand the electrical principles you have explained in this post I feel they would see fewer reasons for choosing that the EMS be placed at the pedestal, other than for convenience.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

The debate between pedestal mounted and hardwired EMS will likely go on forever. If folks could understand the electrical principles you have explained in this post I feel they would see fewer reasons for choosing that the EMS be placed at the pedestal, other than for convenience.

I've had to replace three EMS units. It would have been a major chore to empty the basement storage, take down the wall, and wire around a permanently mounted EMS. On the other hand I've never had an issue with the possible shortcomings of a pole mounted EMS. So, thank you for your advice, but I'll stick with what works for me.