Tesla CyberTruck: How Battery Day Totally Changed What We Know About Electric Pickups

[SolarPoweredRV]

Yesterday, Tesla held their, long awaited, Battery Day...

During the presentation, Elon Musk and Drew Baglino outlined the future of batteries for Tesla Vehicles. In addition to being 56% cheaper to manufacture, Tesla's new battery cells will be 5 times more powerful and store 6 times more energy then the current battery cells Tesla is using in their Model 3 and Y.

In their presentation Tesla indicated that the CyberTruck and Semi will be built with their new, more powerful, battery cells.

How will these new Tesla Cells (FYI: the new cells will be called 4680) have a positive effect on Towing an RV with a Tesla CyberTruck?

What Range improvement might we expect from the new cells being used in the CyberTruck?

How will the new cells effect charging times while on the road?

Let's discuss this...

First, I would like to thank Rivian for publishing the first, official, estimate of range reduction while towing a loaded trailer with an Electric Pickup, that range reduction is ~ 50%, even while climbing some very steep hills in the Arizona heat (over 100 F).

Read about Rivian's Testing and watch a Video here: https://www.greencarreports.com/new...1-000-pounds-up-davis-grade-in-scorching-heat

Tesla's CyberTruck will have more than 14,000 LBs of towing capacity and 500 miles of range when they begin producing them at the end of next year (maybe 1Q 2022), unfortunately, the CyberTruck will not be capable of towing a 5th Wheel RV, however, for those who have chosen a Travel Trailer, you are in for a treat!

The new Batteries that Tesla announced for the CyberTruck will benefit RV users greatly; and positively address many concerns people have voiced on this forum and others (mostly about Range and Charging times).

Personally, I predict that the new CyberTruck will have a longer range than previously published because of the new battery cells, I predict that the Long-Range, Tri-Motor, version of the CyberTruck will have a range closer to 600 miles when Tesla begins producing them in volume (2022).

Because the new Tesla battery is so advanced, the CyberTruck will have plenty of power to haul the RV, at speed, even uphill. One of the biggest advantages of this new battery, is that it does not get as hot as current batteries do, so, you won't have an over-heating issue, even while climbing a long hill.

Additionally, because this new battery generates less internal heat, it can be charged much faster, and at a higher rate, than the existing battery packs on the Model 3 (or Model Y). The batteries should also be capable of accepting the higher charging rate for a longer period of time, so, the charging rate will begin curtailing itself later in the charging cycle which will give you a higher state-of-charge, sooner.

Many of the Electrify America's charging stations and Tesla's v3 Super chargers are capable of charge rates up to 350kwh which equates to receiving over 1,000 miles of charge in an hour. The CyberTruck will probably be capable of charging at a rate of 300kwh which will probably result in a 10% to 80% (plus) charge of around 30 minutes, just enough time to fix lunch and get everyone through the comfort station (at least once).

With the CyberTruck's Long-Range of 500 miles (or more) and the new information provided by Rivian, you could expect to travel over 200 miles before needing to stop for a recharge of around 30 minutes. This range and recharge time compare favorably with your existing Gas or Diesel fueling times (it takes a while to fill my 48 gallon tank, so a 5 minute fill-up is not realistic).

Bottom line: The new Battery from Tesla will make the CyberTruck much more capable and will eliminate even more excuses for not "Going Electric" from the Fossil-Fuel Loving Truck enthusiasts.

 

[bertschb]

With the CyberTruck's Long-Range of 500 miles (or more) and the new information provided by Rivian, you could expect to travel over 200 miles before needing to stop for a recharge of around 30 minutes. This range and recharge time compare favorably with your existing Gas or Diesel fueling times (it takes a while to fill my 48 gallon tank, so a 5 minute fill-up is not realistic).

Bottom line: The new Battery from Tesla will make the CyberTruck much more capable and will eliminate even more excuses for not "Going Electric" from the Fossil-Fuel Loving Truck enthusiasts.

200 miles of towing range is not acceptable to all people. I just spent $2,300 to replace my factory 34 gallon fuel tank which gave me about 300 miles of towing range. I now have 600 miles of towing range which is acceptable. 200 isn't even close for me.

If you double the size of the new battery pack to get 400 miles of towing range (marginal for me), it would be a 60 minute recharge to 80%. No way I'm sitting around for an hour or more to recharge a battery and only get 400 miles of range out of it.

My son has a Ford Raptor and ordered a Cybertruck when it was announced. He's intrigued with electric vehicles. We talk about them all the time. The #1 issue for me with electric vehicles has always been range. We do a lot of interstate driving and I want at least 500 mile range in any vehicle I own with a ten minute fill up. I realize I'm an outlier as most people drive 20 miles a day. But, until an electric truck can pull a 20,000lb 5th wheel for 500 miles without charging and then recharge in 15 minutes, I'll keep my diesel.

Competition is good and electric vehicles will bring new technology that can be used in ICE vehicles and ICE vehicles will force electric manufacturers to increase capability in order to compete - especially with trucks.

And BTW, my interest in electric vehicles is purely because I'm a gadget guy and love new technology. It has nothing to do with the perceived cleaner technology. Most of the electricity used to charge electric vehicles is produced from fossil fuels so you're using fossil fuels either way.

Oh, one more thing about electric tow vehicles...
New chargers will need to be installed nationwide that allow room for trucks with RV's attached.

 

[boyscout]

Yesterday, Tesla held their, long awaited, Battery Day...

Thanks for the update David/Peggy. I want to fill our trailer's front compartment with 1000 amp/hours of those batteries too... for $2K. How long will I have to wait?!

 

[SolarPoweredRV]

200 miles of towing range is not acceptable to all people. I just spent $2,300 to replace my factory 34 gallon fuel tank which gave me about 300 miles of towing range. I now have 600 miles of towing range which is acceptable. 200 isn't even close for me.

If you double the size of the new battery pack to get 400 miles of towing range (marginal for me), it would be a 60 minute recharge to 80%. No way I'm sitting around for an hour or more to recharge a battery and only get 400 miles of range out of it.

My son has a Ford Raptor and ordered a Cybertruck when it was announced. He's intrigued with electric vehicles. We talk about them all the time. The #1 issue for me with electric vehicles has always been range. We do a lot of interstate driving and I want at least 500 mile range in any vehicle I own with a ten minute fill up. I realize I'm an outlier as most people drive 20 miles a day. But, until an electric truck can pull a 20,000lb 5th wheel for 500 miles without charging and then recharge in 15 minutes, I'll keep my diesel.

Competition is good and electric vehicles will bring new technology that can be used in ICE vehicles and ICE vehicles will force electric manufacturers to increase capability in order to compete - especially with trucks.

And BTW, my interest in electric vehicles is purely because I'm a gadget guy and love new technology. It has nothing to do with the perceived cleaner technology. Most of the electricity used to charge electric vehicles is produced from fossil fuels so you're using fossil fuels either way.

Oh, one more thing about electric tow vehicles...
New chargers will need to be installed nationwide that allow room for trucks with RV's attached.

It sounds like you should get your name on the list for a Tesla Semi and move up to the HDT Club, with 600 miles of range pulling 40,000 lbs, I bet you could get 700 miles only pulling that tiny 5th Wheel behind the Tesla Semi.

Many Electrify America charging stations can accommodate the pull-through requirements of a towed vehicle, however many Supercharging Stations would need to be reconfigured. I anticipate that many Truck Stops will begin installing Electric Charging Stations and they will be more attuned to the needs of a towed rig (one can only hope).

If you don't mind me asking, where do you tow that you need such long range capability? How often do you tow those long trips? Do you tow much shorter trips throughout the year?

Thanks!

 

[SolarPoweredRV]

Thanks for the update David/Peggy. I want to fill our trailer's front compartment with 1000 amp/hours of those batteries too... for $2K. How long will I have to wait?!

What will you be using the batteries for?

If you want to replace your 12v batteries with Tesla Lithium batteries, you can buy used Model S battery modules today. That is what I power my coach with and I couldn't be happier.

 

[bertschb]

If you don't mind me asking, where do you tow that you need such long range capability? How often do you tow those long trips? Do you tow much shorter trips throughout the year?

We travel between Bend, OR and Palm Springs, CA. I've done the trip non-stop several times. Well, non-stop meaning no overnight stop. We probably won't do that again but what I've learned is interstate travel is no problem as far as finding truck stops for refueling but when you get off the main highways out west you have to rely on regular gas stations which I try to avoid when towing 5th wheels. We plan to travel the western states and Alaska over the next couple summers. I didn't replace my fuel tank so I could drive for 600 miles without stopping. I replaced it so I could make it between RV parks without having to stop at regular gas stations.

Just so you know, I'm not opposed at all to electric vehicles. I'm only opposed to the false "clean energy" sales pitch and the short range of electric tow vehicles. For 95% of use cases, they are an excellent alternative to ICE. In fact, if I was still working and commuting, I'd get one. We have a 2019 Rav4 Hybrid that has over 500 miles of range. Over the last 6 months or so we're averaging 45mpg in mixed driving. Pretty impressive for a car with a very small battery. It's fun to drive our car when it's in EV mode. It doesn't go very far or very fast in that mode but it feels like cheating when it does. No gas being used and the battery was charged by the car (engine or coasting/braking).

We plan to add solar to the next house we build and it would be really cool to be able to recharge an electric car/truck from our own solar system!

 

[SolarPoweredRV]

We travel between Bend, OR and Palm Springs, CA. I've done the trip non-stop several times. Well, non-stop meaning no overnight stop. We probably won't do that again but what I've learned is interstate travel is no problem as far as finding truck stops for refueling but when you get off the main highways out west you have to rely on regular gas stations which I try to avoid when towing 5th wheels. We plan to travel the western states and Alaska over the next couple summers. I didn't replace my fuel tank so I could drive for 600 miles without stopping. I replaced it so I could make it between RV parks without having to stop at regular gas stations.

Just so you know, I'm not opposed at all to electric vehicles. I'm only opposed to the false "clean energy" sales pitch and the short range of electric tow vehicles. For 95% of use cases, they are an excellent alternative to ICE. In fact, if I was still working and commuting, I'd get one. We have a 2019 Rav4 Hybrid that has over 500 miles of range. Over the last 6 months or so we're averaging 45mpg in mixed driving. Pretty impressive for a car with a very small battery. It's fun to drive our car when it's in EV mode. It doesn't go very far or very fast in that mode but it feels like cheating when it does. No gas being used and the battery was charged by the car (engine or coasting/braking).

We plan to add solar to the next house we build and it would be really cool to be able to recharge an electric car/truck from our own solar system!

We had a Chevy Volt for the final year and a half that my wife commuted. We charged it up every night and it really ticked us off if we had to use gas for the last 0.10 of a mile getting home if we had over used the battery that day (extra trips for errands). We really liked the Volt and would recommend it to anyone that the full EV range was good enough for their daily commute. Over the 18 months we had it, we never had to fill it up with gas (except for Hurricane prep), that 9 gallon tank of gas lasted us the full 18 months!!!

I think living in Oregon, if you had an all Electric Vehicle, you couldn't help but run it on "Clean Energy" with all of your Hydro Power in the region. The good news about driving Electric, every month the energy mix is getting cleaner and cleaner, this year Coal is expected to be only 22% of our energy supply and Renewables are now cheaper than Gas, Nuclear, and Coal. Combine that with cheaper batteries for the grid (something Tesla also announced yesterday) and we have an easy path to 80 - 90% Renewables Today. The last 5 - 10% will be a challenge to get done economically.

I am with you on not wanting to Fuel up at any where but Truck Stops because they are always going to have the freshest Diesel.

 

[bertschb]

We had a Chevy Volt for the final year and a half that my wife commuted.

I always thought the Volt was a great idea. EV for commuting. ICE for traveling. Best of both worlds. Zero range anxiety. I seriously considered buying one. Too bad GM stopped making it but manufacturers are moving full speed ahead into full EV's. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for U.S. consumers to switch to EV's without legislation forcing them to do it like many other countries.

 

[jkwilson]

Yesterday, Tesla held their, long awaited, Battery Day...

During the presentation, Elon Musk and Drew Baglino outlined the future of batteries for Tesla Vehicles. In addition to being 56% cheaper to manufacture, Tesla's new battery cells will be 5 times more powerful and store 6 times more energy then the current battery cells Tesla is using in their Model 3 and Y.

In their presentation Tesla indicated that the CyberTruck and Semi will be built with their new, more powerful, battery cells.

How will these new Tesla Cells (FYI: the new cells will be called 4680) have a positive effect on Towing an RV with a Tesla CyberTruck?

What Range improvement might we expect from the new cells being used in the CyberTruck?

How will the new cells effect charging times while on the road?

Let's discuss this...

First, I would like to thank Rivian for publishing the first, official, estimate of range reduction while towing a loaded trailer with an Electric Pickup, that range reduction is ~ 50%, even while climbing some very steep hills in the Arizona heat (over 100 F).

Read about Rivian's Testing and watch a Video here: https://www.greencarreports.com/new...1-000-pounds-up-davis-grade-in-scorching-heat

Tesla's CyberTruck will have more than 14,000 LBs of towing capacity and 500 miles of range when they begin producing them at the end of next year (maybe 1Q 2022), unfortunately, the CyberTruck will not be capable of towing a 5th Wheel RV, however, for those who have chosen a Travel Trailer, you are in for a treat!

The new Batteries that Tesla announced for the CyberTruck will benefit RV users greatly; and positively address many concerns people have voiced on this forum and others (mostly about Range and Charging times).

Personally, I predict that the new CyberTruck will have a longer range than previously published because of the new battery cells, I predict that the Long-Range, Tri-Motor, version of the CyberTruck will have a range closer to 600 miles when Tesla begins producing them in volume (2022).

Because the new Tesla battery is so advanced, the CyberTruck will have plenty of power to haul the RV, at speed, even uphill. One of the biggest advantages of this new battery, is that it does not get as hot as current batteries do, so, you won't have an over-heating issue, even while climbing a long hill.

Additionally, because this new battery generates less internal heat, it can be charged much faster, and at a higher rate, than the existing battery packs on the Model 3 (or Model Y). The batteries should also be capable of accepting the higher charging rate for a longer period of time, so, the charging rate will begin curtailing itself later in the charging cycle which will give you a higher state-of-charge, sooner.

Many of the Electrify America's charging stations and Tesla's v3 Super chargers are capable of charge rates up to 350kwh which equates to receiving over 1,000 miles of charge in an hour. The CyberTruck will probably be capable of charging at a rate of 300kwh which will probably result in a 10% to 80% (plus) charge of around 30 minutes, just enough time to fix lunch and get everyone through the comfort station (at least once).

With the CyberTruck's Long-Range of 500 miles (or more) and the new information provided by Rivian, you could expect to travel over 200 miles before needing to stop for a recharge of around 30 minutes. This range and recharge time compare favorably with your existing Gas or Diesel fueling times (it takes a while to fill my 48 gallon tank, so a 5 minute fill-up is not realistic).

Bottom line: The new Battery from Tesla will make the CyberTruck much more capable and will eliminate even more excuses for not "Going Electric" from the Fossil-Fuel Loving Truck enthusiasts.

Key word: “will”.

These aren’t on the market and aren’t being mass produced. Yet. Maybe they will and it will be great, but over the years there have been a lot of optimistic press releases about battery technology that is “just around the corner”.

If I could do 200 miles a day on electric, it would be hard to pass up and I’d adapt. Campgrounds would obviously start metering electricity, so it’s not going to be free fuel. Taxes will get into the mix as well, as road funds largely come from fuel taxes as well.

I would be really surprised if there is an economic advantage in the long run. Eventually everything will settle out to be close to normal. Ecologically I’m hopeful for improvement.

 

[bertschb]

I think living in Oregon, if you had an all Electric Vehicle, you couldn't help but run it on "Clean Energy" with all of your Hydro Power in the region.

According to Oregon Department of Energy, here is where Oregon's power comes from:
Hydro - 43%
Coal - 25%
Gas - 21%

So, the majority of Oregon's power is produced from fossil fuels. Wind and solar accounted for 6% combined.

Nationwide, 63% of our electrical power is produced from fossil fuels. 20% is nuclear. 17% is renewables. Again, this is from the Oregon Department of Energy website.

 

[bertschb]

And so it begins..."California Governor Gavin Newsom announced Wednesday that the state will ban sales of gas-powered vehicles, effective in 2035."

 

[SolarPoweredRV]

And so it begins..."California Governor Gavin Newsom announced Wednesday that the state will ban sales of gas-powered vehicles, effective in 2035."

This is the first I had heard of this mandate. Is this an actual law? Or just a proposal? (update: it is law)

The UK is proposing the same mandate for 2030.

Update: this mandate also includes Heavy Duty Trucks, Vans and Commercial Fleet Operators.

 

[bertschb]

This is the first I had heard of this mandate. Is this an actual law? Or just a proposal?

It was just announced today. It's an executive order. California can't produce enough electricity today. It will be interesting to see what happens to their grid when 15,000,000 cars are being recharged every day - and they continue to shut down fossil fuel power plants. Increase power demand and reduce production. Genius!

One "solution" to the self inflicted power shortage I read about was to significantly raise rates. You can't make this stuff up! So when it's 105 outside and you NEED air conditioning, the solution is to raise the rates? By that logic, I should get better fuel mileage in my truck if they increase fuel prices.

Sorry for taking this OT. I am glad to hear about progress in battery technology. Lighter/cheaper/higher density is all good stuff. Better range in electric cars and smaller/lighter/cheaper LiFePO4 RV batteries is a very good thing!

 

[TheLexx]

Complicated subject here. IMO however, PG&E is a criminal monopoly. The state PUC just rubber stamps their egregious rate increases. PG&E gets fined for criminal negligence in the Millbrae explosion and fires that decimated a neighborhood and killed some people. And what did they do? They passed the fines along to their customers of course. How is it that Roseville Electric and SMUD, which services the cities of Roseville and Sacramento respectively, have such massively lower rates than PG&E? Why is PG&E deemed a "public" utility when there's nothing public about it other than it has the right to rip the public off?

I fully support solar. If our idiot governor Newsome truly supported clean power, instead of banning ICE vehicles, he (along with the left wing controlled stated legislature), would he'd mandate that ALL new homes built have rooftop solar of adequate capacity to offset their electrical usage. In massive quantities, solar would not add that much to the cost of a new home. We have solar on our roof and despite the fact that we live where it's typically 100°+ during the summer, and we have 5 ton and 3.5 ton air conditioning units, our true up at the end of the year is less than $1000.

I would go so far as requiring solar and batteries to be installed, thereby allowing homes to use STORED energy when the sun goes down.

As for the Cybertruck, sorry but that thing is butt ugly. It may be ok for a travel trailer, but at this time there's no way it'll support a fifth wheel. And many Superchargers are located where there's no room to expand their footprint. So I don't see how they're going to reconfigure the sites for a truck with a trailer in tow.

I am hoping however, that with the success of the Cybertruck, Tesla will produce something eventually that is more conventionally shaped and has lower bed rails and the capacity to tow a fiver. Combine that with a good rooftop solar system on your fifth wheel and now we're talking.

 

[marlowefamily]

The fallacy is everyone simplifying discussion to an either/or scenario: gas or electric. The correct but more expensive answer for those willing to go off the beaten path is using gas and electric together.

Provide me with an gas engine good for 500 miles of towing, and add on an electric motor, 250 mile daily driving range battery, regenerative braking, and built in 3kw inverter.

Program the car to seamlessly switch between gas and electric as needed, using both for maximum engine stopping power or for heavy towing.

Pure electric is the low tech cheap option for the masses.

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk

 

[bertschb]

The fallacy is everyone simplifying discussion to an either/or scenario: gas or electric. The correct but more expensive answer for those willing to go off the beaten path is using gas and electric together.

The problem is the manufacturers are running headlong into electric-only product lines. I thought the Volt was a great idea but GM dropped it. As governments continue to mandate electric only vehicles, manufacturers and consumers will have no choice but electric.

 

[Overtaxed]

The problem is the manufacturers are running headlong into electric-only product lines. I thought the Volt was a great idea but GM dropped it. As governments continue to mandate electric only vehicles, manufacturers and consumers will have no choice but electric.

I've always thought the coolest setup would be a diesel-electric. A moderately sized diesel engine that only powers a generator, runs at constant RPMs, and the generator is sized to bring a moderately sized battery pack up to full charge relatively quickly. A diesel running at constant RPM is crazy efficient and you wouldn't need 400HP, probably more like 50-100HP (which is good for 25-50KW of power). Add in regen braking (think exhaust brake), a 100KWh battery pack, and, well, now you've got something I'd be really interested in. I'm surprised that this hasn't come to the HDT market yet, we have all the tech to do this (trains, for example, have been diesel-electric for a long time) and it would seem to be a great way to deal with the cost of batteries, range anxiety, great MPG.

Maybe someday.

 

[SolarPoweredRV]

I've always thought the coolest setup would be a diesel-electric. A moderately sized diesel engine that only powers a generator, runs at constant RPMs, and the generator is sized to bring a moderately sized battery pack up to full charge relatively quickly. A diesel running at constant RPM is crazy efficient and you wouldn't need 400HP, probably more like 50-100HP (which is good for 25-50KW of power). Add in regen braking (think exhaust brake), a 100KWh battery pack, and, well, now you've got something I'd be really interested in. I'm surprised that this hasn't come to the HDT market yet, we have all the tech to do this (trains, for example, have been diesel-electric for a long time) and it would seem to be a great way to deal with the cost of batteries, range anxiety, great MPG.

Maybe someday.

Yes, this is a good idea. This is exactly how the Chevy Volt was designed, Only the electric powertrain drives the wheels, the Gas engine runs a generator that recharges the battery, just enough to replenish the energy used to propel the car (not enough to recharge the battery to full). The Chevy Volt was designed differently than other Hybrids like the Prius, in the Prius the Electric motor assists the Gas engine in propelling the vehicle, this is especially useful when accelerating from a stop.

While this idea is valid and it can increase Miles Per Gallon, it does not address the pollution issue the way that Electrifying the entire Transportation sector can.

 

[BigSwick]

the truck will be available long before a reasonable number of campgrounds are available where you can recharge

 

[SolarPoweredRV]

the truck will be available long before a reasonable number of campgrounds are available where you can recharge

All campgrounds with a 20, 30 or 50 amp connector can be used to charge an Electric Vehicle. All you need is an appropriate adapter and the charger (EVSE) that comes with your Electric Vehicle.

In practical use, if the campsite is a 30 amp campsite there is usually a 20 amp connector next to the 30 amp outlet, you could simply plug in your Electric Pickup to the 20 amp outlet and let it charge over the weekend. If you need to charge the vehicle faster, then you can use the 30 amp circuit at night, or when you are away from the camper, unless you need your air conditioning, then you might need to plan for a stop at a DC fast charging station on your way home. If the campsite has a 50 and a 30 amp connector, then you could use the connector your coach does not use to charge the truck. Additionally, you can program your truck to charge up overnight to minimize impact on the Electric supply in the campground.

EV charging is easier than you might think before you own an EV. With a little bit of flexibility and some creative ingenuity you can keep your EV charged up.