Towing an Imagine XLS 17MKE with an SUV

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karlgrobl

New Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2021
Messages
4
Location
Illinois
Hi all,

We're newbies to the travel trailer community. After much research and deliberation, we purchased a Grand Design 17MKE and a 2010 Lexus GX 460. We wanted a trailer that we could safely tow a few times a year with a vehicle that is comfortable as a daily driver. Our options were minimal due to towing capacity of our SUV. Here's the breakdown for anyone who might be interested. The bottom line is that we are very pleased with our decision in terms of the trailer 17MKE and the tow vehicle, a Lexus GX460. We are well within the recommended weight limits and tolerances as determined by two stops at Cat Scales to determine the weight of our tow vehicle and trailer. On our first trip from Illinois to Florida, a 2500 mile journey, our towing experience was great in terms of sway control and gas mileage. Our average MPG was just over 11mpg. Here are the details....

Tow Vehicle: 2010 Lexus GX460
curb weight 5305 lbs
GVWR 6600 lbs
towing capacity 6500 (more with weight distribution hitch)
tongue weight max 650 (more with weight distribution hitch)

We have an Equalizer Sway Control / Weight Distribution Hitch. 1000lbs/10,000lbs

Travel Trailer: 2021 Grand Design 17MKE
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 4838 lbs according to Grand Design
(4480 as weighed)
GVWR 6395 (max loaded weight possible, but we did not need that much)
tongue weight 480 lbs

We stopped at a Cat Scale on the way after picking up our Grand Design from the dealer. Our first weighing of the unloaded trailer (2 batteries and full propane) was 4480 lbs (4838 lbs is what GD says)
Our Lexus GX460 with two people inside (150lbs) and130 lbs) plus fuel 120 lbs was 6080 lbs total (vs GVWR 6600)

The weight of both the tow vehicle and trailer was 10,560 lbs (max combined is 13,100 lbs)

During our trip, we stopped again at a Cat Scale to weigh our Grand Design fully stocked with our stuff including 3 bikes, 2 Kayaks, all our food, some fresh water in the tank. We weighed in at (5,120 lbs) vs a max of (6,395 lbs) so we had1275 lbs to spare.

We also weighed the Lexus with a full tank of gas plus my wife, son plus some tools and stuff in the back cargo area and two Kayaks on the roof rack. We weighed in at 6540 lbs (just under the Lexus 6600 max)

So, our actual gross combined weight of both vehicles fully loaded was 11,640 lbs leaving 1460 lbs to spare which could have been added to the Grand Design cargo capacity.

With our fully-loaded weight coming in at 11,540 lbs vs a max allowable of 13,100 lbs it seems that we were 1,460 lbs under. My calculations of all of this show that we were about 11% under the max allowable.

The trailer towed quite well with no sway issues while traveling at 61 mph (this seemed to be the sweet spot for the Lexus 4.7 liter V* engine in terms of RPM and thus gas mileage).

Our Miles Per Gallon ranged from 10.8 to 12.1 with an average of 11.1 mpg at our target speed of 61 mph.

I hope this information is helpful for anyone who might be considering this particular setup.
 
The gvwr of 6395 for the trailer is the complete trailer including the TW not just the axles


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew
 
I'm confused: it was my understanding that the tongue weight has to be added to the tow vehicle's calculation. We weighed the rig with the trailer attached, resting entirely on one scale was the tow vehicle and resting entirely on the other scale was the trailer. The scale with the Lexus on it weighed 6540 lbs and the scale with the trailer weighed 5120 lbs. That makes our total rig 11,6060 lbs. Am I missing something? Thanks!
 
karlgrobl said:
I'm confused: it was my understanding that the tongue weight has to be added to the tow vehicle's calculation. We weighed the rig with the trailer attached, resting entirely on one scale was the tow vehicle and resting entirely on the other scale was the trailer. The scale with the Lexus on it weighed 6540 lbs and the scale with the trailer weighed 5120 lbs. That makes our total rig 11,6060 lbs. Am I missing something? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Yes you are correct. The TW is added to the tow vehicle but the gvwr of the trailer is the complete weight of the unhooked trailer


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew
 
I think karlgrobl was just clarifying something. Unless you disconnected the trailer and put tongue jack down on the scale your trailer weight did not include the weight being placed on the tow vehicle.
when weighing in at a scale and the tow vehicle wheels are on scale #1 and the trailer is on scale #2 . the result will be. 1 + 2= GCW gross combined weight. #1 = GVW gross vehicle weight of Lexus which is loaded vehicle plus tongue weight, #2 is basically useless at this time unless you know the curb weight of your TW. since #2 = GVW of trailer minus tongue weight.

IF this weight doesn't include the tongue weight you are over the Lexus GVWR "We also weighed the Lexus with a full tank of gas plus my wife, son plus some tools and stuff in the back cargo area and two Kayaks on the roof rack. We weighed in at 6540 lbs (just under the Lexus 6600 max)" you only have a payload of 1295 lbs. Tongue weight 480 + gas + family + everything else = GVW. You are likely running close to GVWR.
 
It looks like you are assuming that the GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) of the tow vehicle is equal to the GVWR plus the maximum towing capability. That is normally not the case, because the max towing isn't measured at the max vehicle weight.

For example, on an SRW F-350 diesel like I have:

GCWR = 30,000
GVWR = 11,500
Max conventional towing = 20,000

Notice that GVWR + Max towing is 31,500, but the GCWR is only 30,000. You should try to find out the GCWR of your tow vehicle to determine if you are over that limit.

With all that said, if it is towing well that is a good sign. A more conservative measurement would be to use curb weight plus max towing capability to estimate the GCWR. If you did that you would still be under that limit. You may have an issue being over GCWR if you are stopped and your vehicle is weighed, but that is a whole different discussion.
 
Last edited:
What I find that appears legit. Tow capacity 6500, GVWR from a door tag 6600, Curb weight from Lexus brochure 5305. So payload is limited to 6600-6305=1295. GCWR is unknown but it has to be between 11,805 (Curb+Towing) and 13,100(GVWR+towing). I think you are fine but really need to focus on limiting the payload. Put extra stuff in the trailer, keep tanks empty when possible. You wrote the first weigh in was 4480 + 6080 = 10560 then a second weigh in with a bunch of stuff 5120 + 6540 =11,660. If anything try to reduce the load being put into the SUV. Good Luck.
 
Thanks to everyone who chimed in on this post, including Rancher 350, Bob Kilmer, and NB Canada, I appreciate all the help. It has been quite an education trying to ingest all of the information regarding weight distribution, towing capacity, GVWR etc. (Bob Kilmer, I checked the sticker in the door frame but it does not list GCWR. I did however find numbers for a 2009 Lexus GX470 which is arguably almost the exact same vehicle, and it has a GCWR of 11,521 lbs, so perhaps my combined weight of 10,560 lbs is within recommended parameters) In any case, for the sake of safety, gas mileage, and legality, I'll do my best to keep cargo to the minimum, and when possible, mostly in the trailer rather than the tow vehicle. I'll also stop at the scales on my next trip to check again. Any additional input from you guys is appreciated. Safe travels, Karl
 
towing capacity 6500 (more with weight distribution hitch)
tongue weight max 650 (more with weight distribution hitch)

For clarification: A WHD doesn't increase capacities, it distributes them and increases control.
 
Lexus PAYLOAD CAPACITY is 1525
Tongue weights are usually low. Take 12% of maximum loaded trailer is .12 times 6325 is approx 750 lbs. subtracted from Payload capacity is 775 which is what you have to play with in the Lexus weight load.

Two adults (300 lbs), WDH (75 lbs) , chairs , grill , generator, clothes, food , liquids can’t exceed 400 lbs to be at you maximum payload capacity.

The Lexus IS a luxury SUV. A very nice one. However it’s transmission, rear axle, brakes, are not set up for it to be a tow vehicle. It’s a nice people mover. As far a tow perfectly without sway , just taking down the road in perfect conditions is not really a good estimator or how it would perform in challenging conditions such as a blowout, cross winds, accident avoidance. Vehicles at the top of PAYLOAD CAPACITY are not as adept as ones under it. Towing capacity means nothing . They all have it.

Take this combo up some hills, or foothills, I think you’ll see it struggles. Then come down the hill with a vehicle
Set up for people moving. I believe it will struggle. I know this won’t be a popular opinion, others will say they’ve done similar for years. But that isn’t a predictor for the one time you must call on the rig in an emergency.

Your fine, in optimum conditions, though you’ll wear the Lexus out, but personally I would not have piece of mind in the emergency situation,
 
towing over a vehicles stated capacity is always more risky than towing at the upper end of vehichle stated capactity is always more riskey than towing well under the vehicle stated capacity is always more risky than towing nothing is always more risky than not driving at all. being within the stated limits will at least check off one thing a lawyer can pin to you in an accident but even that, a good lawyer will pin you as at fault or not depending on which side you are on and which lawyer you have. stated limits of all you equipment is really the only objective information to base a decision on, everything else is just subjective opinion. I will indeed value those opinions that come from more experience but always end up making my own risk assessment in the end. welcome to the forum and your introduction to the number one hot button issue that will always elicit the most responses. ask about your tire trailers next. Haha.
 
Also, I can assure you that if you are truly driving 61 mph, you are giving yourself a margin of safety that I have not seen in more than 90% of the travel trailers on the road. I know this towing my camper at 60-65mph, being passed by everyone and passing no one.
 
Since I have a 17MKE I'll add my two cents worth. I noticed in a couple of threads the TW was listed using the factory brochure weight of 480 lbs. So I would ask if you have weighed it with a TW scale? I did and fully loaded for a trip it was 960 lbs. I have since moved a couple of items to the truck bed to lower the TW. My truck has a cargo capacity of 1741 lbs per the door sticker. Subtract 960 lbs TW and that leaves 781 lbs for the wife and I and anything else we want to carry in the truck.

Point is don't assume you know your TW unless you have weighed it with a TW scale. The other point I would make is you are towing very close to your max capacity. There is a lot of opinions on this subject but from what I've read it is best to tow at 80% or less of tow capacity. I'm not familiar with the east living out here in California where steep grades are common. Being able to pull a trailer up a steep hill is one thing but being able to safely take it down a steep hill is another. Trucks generally have larger brakes and Tow/Haul mode which assists in descending a steep hill. I would suggest you take your unloaded trailer to the longest steepest grade you can find even if it means driving 50 or 100 miles and see how it handles going up and down. If it struggles at all it will only get worse when you are loaded for a trip with your family onboard. If it struggles going downhill I wouldn't even consider towing with it.

Other considerations are added engine oil and transmission fluid cooling capacity. There are after market units that can be added to many vehicles but I don't know if a Lexus is one of them.

That's my two cents worth and it's worth exactly what you paid for it.:) So good luck and have fun.
 
GaryS1964 said:
Since I have a 17MKE I'll add my two cents worth. I noticed in a couple of threads the TW was listed using the factory brochure weight of 480 lbs. So I would ask if you have weighed it with a TW scale? I did and fully loaded for a trip it was 960 lbs. I have since moved a couple of items to the truck bed to lower the TW. My truck has a cargo capacity of 1741 lbs per the door sticker. Subtract 960 lbs TW and that leaves 781 lbs for the wife and I and anything else we want to carry in the truck.

Point is don't assume you know your TW unless you have weighed it with a TW scale. The other point I would make is you are towing very close to your max capacity. There is a lot of opinions on this subject but from what I've read it is best to tow at 80% or less of tow capacity. I'm not familiar with the east living out here in California where steep grades are common. Being able to pull a trailer up a steep hill is one thing but being able to safely take it down a steep hill is another. Trucks generally have larger brakes and Tow/Haul mode which assists in descending a steep hill. I would suggest you take your unloaded trailer to the longest steepest grade you can find even if it means driving 50 or 100 miles and see how it handles going up and down. If it struggles at all it will only get worse when you are loaded for a trip with your family onboard. If it struggles going downhill I wouldn't even consider towing with it.

Other considerations are added engine oil and transmission fluid cooling capacity. There are after market units that can be added to many vehicles but I don't know if a Lexus is one of them.

That's my two cents worth and it's worth exactly what you paid for it.:) So good luck and have fun.
Click to expand...

Why would you remove gear to lighten the TW just to put that stuff in the TV?
That doesn’t change your payload issues
Heavy TW is a good thing

And I don’t why people keep using this random 80 percent margin???
Where did that come from?
Manufacturers do extensive towing tests on vehicles in all driving conditions
There would be plenty 3/4 tons and big 3500s that are not using “80 percent margins”


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew
 
NB Canada said:
Why would you remove gear to lighten the TW just to put that stuff in the TV?
That doesn’t change your payload issues
Heavy TW is a good thing
Click to expand...

It was my understanding that tongue weight was supposed to be between 10% and 15% of trailer weight. At 960 lbs tongue weight I would be at 15% of my trailers GVWR. However the actual weight of my trailer when loaded is less than the GVWR which means my tongue weight actually exceeds 15% of my trailer weight. I don't have a payload problem with my truck so by moving a couple of heavy items from the pass through to the truck bed I get my tongue weight back in the 10% to 15% of trailer weight range and I'm still under my trucks payload capacity.

As far as towing at or below 80% of towing capacity it's just a number that seems to get repeated most often. Some consider it a safety margin. Personally I decided that my Tacoma would not safely handle the 17MKE even though it's tow capacity was 6400 lbs so I bought the F150. Provides me with peace of mind. Everyone has to make that decision for themselves.
 
GaryS1964 said:
As far as towing at or below 80% of towing capacity it's just a number that seems to get repeated most often. Some consider it a safety margin.
Click to expand...

So there isn’t an article just what roams the inter webs
I feel manufacturer’s already consider a “safety margin” in their capacities since posting a rating that is a “breaking point” would likely lead to litigation


2021 Imagine 2400 BH
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 crew
 
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