Truck towing capacities and maximum tongue weight does not add up?

bossman2024

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Something that has struck me as odd recently is that all truck manufacturers list the towing capacity of the truck at X pounds and then the max tongue weight as X/10 pounds. So for instance my GMC Sierra 2500HD has a max towing capacity for conventional trailers of 18,500# and maximum tongue weight of 1,850#. So the maximum is only 10% of the trailer weight.

However everything I have read is that the expected tongue weight for a trailer should be between 10-15% of the loaded trailer weight, and that towing a trailer with less than 10% tongue weight is considered unsafe. So if I actually DID have a fully loaded trailer of 18,500# attached to my Sierra 2500HD, the likely tongue weight could be anywhere from 1,850# minimum up to 2,775#! And anything less than 1,850# would actually be considered not safe?

So what am I missing then? If the maximum tongue weight is only 1,850# for my truck, then really I can only tow up to a 12,333# trailer behind it if the tongue weight is up to 15% of the trailer weight.

The only thing I can think of is that this is for conventional towing WITHOUT any weight distribution. Is that how this works? Clearly for larger trailers weight distribution is pretty much a requirement unless you are towing with a 1 ton dually (and even then I think you would be silly to tow without weight distribution?).

When I need to tow my Grand Design Momentum 31G toy hauler travel trailer with no toys in the back (such as towing it to the dealer), the tongue weight is potentially going to be > 1,850#, maybe even close to 2,000# unless I remove cargo from the front of the trailer. So my question is am I overloading the truck at that point, or am I good as long as I am fully distributing the weight forward correctly (getting the front wheels back close to their original location) and I am not surpassing the maximum payload capacity of the truck?

I know my max payload is 2,970# so given that some of the tongue weight gets distributed back to the trailer and some gets distributed to the front wheels, I would likely not be close to my max payload as my truck is likely also going to be empty anyway of cargo when towing to the dealer.

Thoughts?
 
Don't guess, weight it. Do the three step thing, weigh truck alone, weigh truck and trailer then weigh trailer. this will give you the ability to figure the tongue weight.
 
I am not guessing as I am weighing it. Initially I had the Weigh Safe middle weight hitch but its actually too small for a 31G trailer so I had an Andersen hitch on their temporarily but used the weigh safe to weight it (I was at 1,350# dead weight with toys in the back). I have a Pro Pride hitch coming now (the Andersen sucks for a large trailer like this!) and also a scale to measure it accurately in the driveway. So I will have accurate numbers, but the way they list them on the truck door jam just makes no sense for real world use?
 
Towing capacities posted by all manufacturers are for boats and flat deck construction trailers NOT high wall travel trailers

Low deck trailers and boats do not require anywhere near the tongue weight an rv does
Many boats are in the 7 percent area

So you could haul a boat or construction trailer with a skid steer or pallets of Sheetrock right up to the “towing max capacity”

The large frontal area on an rv will take weight off of the tongue as it hits the air hence it needs to start higher
 
So for instance my GMC Sierra 2500HD has a max towing capacity for conventional trailers of 18,500# and maximum tongue weight of 1,850#. So the maximum is only 10% of the trailer weight.

I know my max payload is 2,970#

Thoughts?

My 2500HD reflects the same %. 16K conventional with 1600 lbs. tongue weight.
 
My 2500HD reflects the same %. 16K conventional with 1600 lbs. tongue weight.

Every vehicle on the road has a 10 percent hitch weight vs tow capacity
It is the industry standard

The tongue weight is solely based on the towing capacity and not anything structural
 
I think most of it has to do with the receiver and not the truck itself. A 5th wheel has a much higher percentage.
 
I think most of it has to do with the receiver and not the truck itself. A 5th wheel has a much higher percentage.
Imo it has nothing to do with the receiver

Two identical trucks other than engine and transmission would have different tow ratings which would make the tongue weight number different as well
 
Yep, many trucks have the exact same receiver yet will have entirely different maximum tongue weights listed since it will just show 10% of whatever that trucks maximum conventional towing capacity is.
 
I'm just a newby here, but my understanding has been that your ACTUAL tongue weight should be between 10% and 15% of your ACTUAL trailer weight. So weigh your trailer and then weigh your tongue weight. That tongue weight should be 10-15% of your trailer weight (with higher being better). When a manufacturer sells a hitch, it has to be sized to handle whatever weight it is to be used for. And the tow vehicle and trailer also have their metal parts of sufficient strength to carry certain weights. That's why they indicate an 800 tongue weight for an 8000 lbs trailer, because each of those components are sized for those loads, and a 10% relationship is the minimum allowed. More than 10% would be better. I think all the ads would show a 10 to 1 ratio of the tongue to the trailer so you can know how strong their product is. Have I confused anyone? Am I all wet?
 
Well that is the point. The minimum tongue weight for an 18,500# trailer is 1,850#, and as you said heavier is better. But the specs for the truck say the MAXIMUM tongue weight is 1,850# so you literally cannot tow an 18,500# trailer without being way over the tongue weight unless it’s exactly 10%. And less than 10% is considered unsafe.

Hence the title of the post. The numbers don’t add up.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/003ZSY3iTe_ty3DxESwvGaKbQ
 
Well that is the point. The minimum tongue weight for an 18,500# trailer is 1,850#, and as you said heavier is better. But the specs for the truck say the MAXIMUM tongue weight is 1,850# so you literally cannot tow an 18,500# trailer without being way over the tongue weight unless it’s exactly 10%. And less than 10% is considered unsafe.

Hence the title of the post. The numbers don’t add up.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/003ZSY3iTe_ty3DxESwvGaKbQ

Did you not read my reply?

If you had a flat deck trailer that loaded with stuff weighed 18500 lbs your truck could haul it all day because the tongue weight would likely be 10 percent or less

Now could you haul a 18500 lb travel trailer( if it existed)? Absolutely not

But like I said tow ratings from manufacturers are based off of boats and flat decks not travel trailers

On edit. Boats generally have tongue weights as low as 6-7 percent
 
NB Canada pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Regardless of what the manufacturer claims on tow capacity, the real number to be concerned with is payload and more specifically rear axle weight capacity. If you weigh your truck and subtract that number from the gvwr on the door sticker, that will give you whatever is left for payload. Payload would include anything else you add when travelling, like passengers, the dog, a generator, tools, etc, and your trailer tongue weight. Most half ton trucks, at least, will be limited by payload, no matter what the "tow rating" listed is.

A weight distribution hitch will move a small amount of that hitch weight back to the trailer, and properly set up will move a certain amount from the rear axle to the front axle of the truck. So the real key is to keep from going over the gross rear axle rating, and it's possible to be over the payload capacity with tongue weight and not over either of the gross axle ratings with a properly set up hitch. That would be the final test, but that would require a scale weight to verify. In this case, you may also be over the truck's gvwr, but it could be argued that the gross axle maximum weight #s are the more important measure.
 
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Question

Don't guess, weight it. Do the three step thing, weigh truck alone, weigh truck and trailer then weigh trailer. this will give you the ability to figure the tongue weight.

Obviously (Truck with trailer weight) = truck weight alone + trailer weight alone. How do I calculate tongue or hitch weight from two numbers?
 
When you weigh at a CAT scale you'll get a ticket with the steer axle weight, drive axle weight, and trailer axle weight. When you weigh the truck alone, you'll get steer axle weight, and drive axle weight. The total of those two numbers, the unloaded steer axle weight and the unloaded drive axle weight, will be the total truck weight, subtract that number from the steer axle weight, and drive axle weight, with the trailer loaded on the truck. That will give you the tongue/hitch weight. If you just want the hitch/tongue weight, the trailer weight is immaterial except for general knowledge.
 
Well, with no separation of axles weights, then you'll have to pull the truck on by itself, and weigh. Then hook up the trailer and pull the truck onto the scales, but not the trailer wheels. The difference between the two weights should be the tongue/hitch weight, give or take.
 
Where I weigh the scale is a simple one weight scale so I have to do all of the positioning and signaling for a ticket.
Cat scales are literally everywhere

Maybe find one on your next camping trip especially since it will be loaded up to camp it will give you the best result
 
Something that has struck me as odd recently is that all truck manufacturers list the towing capacity of the truck at X pounds and then the max tongue weight as X/10 pounds. So for instance my GMC Sierra 2500HD has a max towing capacity for conventional trailers of 18,500# and maximum tongue weight of 1,850#. So the maximum is only 10% of the trailer weight.

However everything I have read is that the expected tongue weight for a trailer should be between 10-15% of the loaded trailer weight, and that towing a trailer with less than 10% tongue weight is considered unsafe. So if I actually DID have a fully loaded trailer of 18,500# attached to my Sierra 2500HD, the likely tongue weight could be anywhere from 1,850# minimum up to 2,775#! And anything less than 1,850# would actually be considered not safe?

So what am I missing then? If the maximum tongue weight is only 1,850# for my truck, then really I can only tow up to a 12,333# trailer behind it if the tongue weight is up to 15% of the trailer weight.

The only thing I can think of is that this is for conventional towing WITHOUT any weight distribution. Is that how this works? Clearly for larger trailers weight distribution is pretty much a requirement unless you are towing with a 1 ton dually (and even then I think you would be silly to tow without weight distribution?).

When I need to tow my Grand Design Momentum 31G toy hauler travel trailer with no toys in the back (such as towing it to the dealer), the tongue weight is potentially going to be > 1,850#, maybe even close to 2,000# unless I remove cargo from the front of the trailer. So my question is am I overloading the truck at that point, or am I good as long as I am fully distributing the weight forward correctly (getting the front wheels back close to their original location) and I am not surpassing the maximum payload capacity of the truck?

I know my max payload is 2,970# so given that some of the tongue weight gets distributed back to the trailer and some gets distributed to the front wheels, I would likely not be close to my max payload as my truck is likely also going to be empty anyway of cargo when towing to the dealer.

Thoughts?
The tag inside the frame of your driver's side door tells you what the manufacturer posted as the maximum load should be on the two axles of your tow vehicle. It is referred to as GVWR. Take your RV loaded and put your truck on a CAT scale to ID the actual load you have on your tow vehicle. Towing ability is not an issue as long as the GVWR load is not exceeded. I love it when I hear a sales rep stating one can pull X with their fifth wheel when I know they would not be safe on the road with that load on their tow vehicle. You have to ask yourself, should I blow a tire on my tow vehicle, will the vehicle still provide the ability to safely stop or will the RV behind me take the lead? My F350 is rated to tow 28K lbs, but I know once I put my Grand Design fifth wheel on the truck loaded, I would be below the 14K GVWR rated for my truck by the manufacturer.
 
Towing capacities posted by all manufacturers are for boats and flat deck construction trailers NOT high wall travel trailers

Low deck trailers and boats do not require anywhere near the tongue weight an rv does
Many boats are in the 7 percent area

So you could haul a boat or construction trailer with a skid steer or pallets of Sheetrock right up to the “towing max capacity”

The large frontal area on an rv will take weight off of the tongue as it hits the air hence it needs to start higher

Not sure how you come up with that. Manufacturers don’t have any distinction.
Rich
 

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