Turning Point Maintenance

[tonywelle]

We purchased a 2021 295RL Reflection 150 this fall from the original owners in December 2021. The RV had only been on three or four weekend trips but was stored outside. We took a three-week trip from Louisville KY to various locations in Florida in Feb/Mar 2022 while traveling with friends that have a 2022 Reflection 150 260RL. I noticed during our second week that our turning point hitch would not rotate manually while our friends hitch moved quite easily.

After a discussion with the Lippert tech line we did determine that there was not excessive play and it would be fine to travel home as is. After much research I found very little information on maintenance for the turning point hitches. The only YouTube I found was a two person team that built a support structure for the hitch in their truck bed. Another suggested that you could loosen all of the hitch mounting bolts but the rear ones and pivot the hitch unit down to expose the castled nut that holds the unit together. I will note that this will not work for the 2021 models as the front edge of the Turning Point hitch catches the front edge of the Grand Design hitch mount after approximately ¾” drop.

The turning point hitch is best described by their parts diagram:




Lippert states that maintenance is a two person job due to the 150# hitch weight however I only have one person to complete the job. Today I decided to disassemble to see what the issue was. To disassemble, I connected to the B&W hitch, added a partial sheet of plywood behind the hitch and used a 1 ½ ton floor jack with wood spacers to support the rear of the hitch. After applying light jack support, I removed the eight hitch bolts and raised the front of the trailer using the leveling jacks. Once the mounting brackets were clear, I pulled the truck straight forward to provide working space. After removing the cotter pin, the 1 ½” castellated nut was just finger tight but the unit still would not pivot.

Separating the head unit from the base required the use of multiple, strategically placed chisels on the front and rear that were driven into position with a 2# brass mallet. Although this sounds crude, there are no points to allow the use of pullers or a press, without custom jig fabrication. Did I mention that a storm was coming! At about ¾” of clearance between the head and the base, the head began moving using opposing pry bars. Head removal was just under an hour.

What I found was the lower portion of the main shaft was rusted and the Nylatron sleeve (lower bushing) was somewhat galled due to the rust. The only signs of any lubricant on the hitch assembly was grease on the roller bearing, the lower shaft and bushing were dry. I cleaned the shaft and the bushing with sandpaper to remove the rust and galled bushing surface.

I believe that water enters the front of the hitch under the Nylatron friction plate and capillary action pulls it into the shaft/bushing clearance where it can easily oxidize unprotected steel. During reassembly, I thoroughly applied Red and Tacky grease under the plate near the shaft, on top of the plate near the shaft and on the shaft and bushing. The tapered roller was also repacked, the castellated nut torqued and cotter pin inserted.

Assembly to the trailer was much easier, with my significant other helping with the vertical alignment as I backed the truck up to insure the bolt holes were aligned. I lowered the trailer, installed the mounting bolts and torqued them to 125 ft-lb.

I would highly recommend disassembly and initial greasing before your Turning Point hitch develops issues. I am not over inclined to believe this maintenance needs to occur annually if significant grease is used during assembly. Hopefully, this will help others facing similar issues.

 

[trailrydr]

On ours, I could not find (including my GD dealer who I purchased from) who wanted to do this maintenance.

Your method is the exact same one I will attempt to do with the exception of using a transmission rolling floor sissor jack in the bed of my truck instead of wood blocks. My thought is, this may allow for more maneuverability when reinstalling. Lippert recommends this be done every year. But my dealership said they didnt even know TO do it or when it NEEDED to be done. I like the dealership, but I cant quite figure their response out on this one...

Because of this, I have been contemplating puting on the Morryde rotating pin box.

 

[tonywelle]

On ours, I could not find (including my GD dealer who I purchased from) who wanted to do this maintenance.

Your method is the exact same one I will attempt to do with the exception of using a transmission rolling floor scissor jack in the bed of my truck instead of wood blocks. My thought is, this may allow for more maneuverability when reinstalling. Lippert recommends this be done every year. But my dealership said they didnt even know TO do it or when it NEEDED to be done. I like the dealership, but I cant quite figure their response out on this one...

Because of this, I have been contemplating putting on the Morryde rotating pin box.

I have seen another post where a transmission jack was used but decided against as I did not want another single job specific tool in my garage. Additionally, they did not connect to the 5th wheel hitch which I felt provided a safety factor to insure i could not drop the hitch. The floor jack offered me the ability to tweak the location when I reconnected the hitch to the trailer. The jack was only supporting approximately 50-60#. The other good news is the trailer to hitch clearance was approximately 0.250" at the flanges which made things much easier.

Lippert could have eliminated their maintenance requirement if they had spent $1 more and had the spindle centerline drilled to the middle of the bushing and then an axial drill that intersected. That would allow greasing the rotary pad and the lower bushing without disassembly. Getting that machining done after the fact would be difficult.

I looked at the Morryde and noticed it provides the capability of externally greasing.

 

[trailrydr]

I have seen another post where a transmission jack was used but decided against as I did not want another single job specific tool in my garage. Additionally, they did not connect to the 5th wheel hitch which I felt provided a safety factor to insure i could not drop the hitch. The floor jack offered me the ability to tweak the location when I reconnected the hitch to the trailer. The jack was only supporting approximately 50-60#. The other good news is the trailer to hitch clearance was approximately 0.250" at the flanges which made things much easier.

Lippert could have eliminated their maintenance requirement if they had spent $1 more and had the spindle centerline drilled to the middle of the bushing and then an axial drill that intersected. That would allow greasing the rotary pad and the lower bushing without disassembly. Getting that machining done after the fact would be difficult.

Exactly on Lipperts fail on Turning Point R&D. Another reason I am considering the Morryde pin box, they have one on theirs thats easy to get to without disassembly and or removal.

As for the trans jack usage, my plan is to still use the 5th whl hitch in the truck for the pin and then stabilize the other part of the box with the sissor jack. My trans jack has straps on it to hold the box in place on the jack while moving the box, trailer, or truck out of the way. True though on the jack storage. Hate having extra weight and low use stuff in the truck.

BTW, did you have to replace any pin box components from the maintenance?

 

[tonywelle]

Exactly on Lipperts fail on Turning Point R&D. Another reason I am considering the Morryde pin box, they have one on theirs thats easy to get to without disassembly and or removal.

As for the trans jack usage, my plan is to still use the 5th whl hitch in the truck for the pin and then stabilize the other part of the box with the sissor jack. My trans jack has straps on it to hold the box in place on the jack while moving the box, trailer, or truck out of the way. True though on the jack storage. Hate having extra weight and low use stuff in the truck.

BTW, did you have to replace any pin box components from the maintenance?

I did not replace any parts and was lucky there was not any significant wear. However, If I were to disassemble again I would have the Nylatron plate and bushing on hand as they are the only components that I can envision would wear enough to warrant changing.

 

[rsf250]

Q: After performing the maintenance, if you manually lift the front of the hitch, how much play should I expect? Pointed forward, I'm getting about an 1/8 inch; but turned 90 degrees to either side I see none.


I had been reluctant to perform this task and delayed longer than I likely should have. Last fall I was having a hard time turning the pinbox by hand, but this spring I had to use the truck to pull it out straight. Thus, I could delay no more. ;-/ This is easily a one person job; though, it does help to have another person with positioning (when reattaching the pinbox to the trailer). Watch a couple youtube videos if you want to see the general process; though, take them with a grain of salt.


MAINTENANCE STEPS:
- Using a breaker bar, break all 8 pinbox bolts free.

- Based on tonywelle's notes, I first connected to the hitch; but then I placed a double stack of plastic leveling pads under the rear of the pinbox. Since the kingpin was locked into the hitch, I had no issues with stability.

- All 8 bolts are easily removed by hand (i.e. using your fingers); I used a drill on a very low clutch setting (to avoid stripping threads). If it's hard to turn, then it's binding on the trailer frame. By raising/lowering the trailer, or repositioning the truck forward/backward, you eliminate the binding. I had 5 bolts come out from the initial position, then had to make minor adjustments for each of the other three. (If you damage the bolt, you'll need to purchase a new one of the same hardness; e.g. Ace Hardware.)

- Raise trailer above pinbox, pull truck forward, remove cotter pin, remove castle nut.

- To remove the upper body, I used a single package of plastic shims; (12 in a pack). Using a rubber mallet, I pounded one in from all directions. Then I started pulling out loose shims and doubling them up; then triples; then four. I then lifted the upper body off; it was not heavy.

- I flipped the upper body over and the washer and bearing fell out. I used brake cleaner to clean it all, then repacked the bearing by hand; (youtube has videos). I used a face shield to avoid splash back, and disposable gloves. To keep the bearing clean, I left it inside the disposable glove as I turned the glove inside out.

- Like tonywell, I found the lower main shaft and bushing needed to be cleaned up. I removed the nylon pad (which simply lifts off), then cleaned the main shaft with a wire brush and the bushing with fine emery cloth. When complete, I found the main shaft was still a little pitted. I added a very, very thin coat of grease to the lower shaft, then a thin coat to the bushing.

- I sprayed the nylon pad with silicone, installed it, then lowered the upper body over the shaft. Installed the bearing, washer, castle nut, and cotter pin.

- I took a plastic food container, placed it over the castle nut/shaft opening, then caulked it in place. (I did this because I found some debris on top of my bearing in the removal step.) My only concern would be if this would somehow hold moisture; i.e. maybe I should drill some air holes to allow moisture to dissipate?!?

- A friend helped guide me into position as I backed up the truck. We then lowered the trailer back into position. Next, we tweaked the truck position forward/backward and trailer height as needed, so that each bolt could again be fully installed by hand (without binding). [This was much easier as you can see when the pinbox threads are centered on the trailer frame holes.] Again, a number of them went in from one position, and the last few needed a little truck/trailer position adjustment.

- We then detached the truck and torqued the bolts. [tonywelle, The online manual I found said 175 lbs.]


ADDITIONAL NOTES:
- Lippert Tech Support said they use Lucas Red n Tacky grease.

- I have a 2018 model pinbox and it cannot pivot down using the two rear bolts; (same issue tonywelle mentioned).

- I find it hard to believe the pinbox weighs 150 lbs; I'm guessing it's half that. (Mine is rated GVW 16,000.)

- After torquing the bolts, I had more play than I liked when I lifted the front of the pinbox. Thus, we went back thru the steps and tightened the castle nut one more notch. I now have 1/8" play when facing forward, but none when 90 degrees to either side.

- After we bought our trailer, I saw a bird fly out of the pinbox. To keep them from trying to nest in the pinbox, I took Galvanized Hardware Cloth (i.e. mesh fence; 1/2" openings) and formed a screen for the pinbox opening. I install the screen when the trailer sits idle, and remove it when we start a trip. I'm guessing this is how some debris made its way to the bearing. But I felt lots of road dust could also make its way there.


TonyWelle, It was great to see your walk thru before I started!!!

 

[DFerrell]

Hi what is the distance from Center of Pin to Center of Pivot point on the RV some say 24"

 

[trailrydr]

Hi what is the distance from Center of Pin to Center of Pivot point on the RV some say 24"

I believe it adds 22 inches to the pivot point of any 5er hitch. We finally locked ours out and went with a Demco 18k autoslide hitch. Best mod so far.... no more taking off the TP and breaking it down to grease the bearing.

Also, it should he noted that if you have an older than 2020 TrailAir Turning Point, was informed by LCI that they no longer have all the replacement parts for it - making it obsolete!

This was a deal changer for us, and is why we went with the Demco and locked it out. Pretty crumby for them to not support the older proprietary TP IMO.

 

[DFerrell]

I believe it adds 22 inches to the pivot point of any 5er hitch. We finally locked ours out and went with a Demco 18k autoslide hitch. Best mod so far.... no more taking off the TP and breaking it down to grease the bearing.

Also, it should he noted that if you have an older than 2020 TrailAir Turning Point, was informed by LCI that they no longer have all the replacement parts for it - making it obsolete!

This was a deal changer for us, and is why we went with the Demco and locked it out. Pretty crumby for them to not support the older proprietary TP IMO.

do you know How Often these pins need to be greased? I am getting a New 2024 150 GD with Lippert Curt Turning point 16K I like the idea of not having a slider, but still looking for Pro/Cons.

 

[trailrydr]

do you know How Often these pins need to be greased? I am getting a New 2024 150 GD with Lippert Curt Turning point 16K I like the idea of not having a slider, but still looking for Pro/Cons.

LCI recommends once yearly.

 

[ardvark16]

I have a thread on the maintenance for the pinbox. It is heavier than 75lbs. You need 2 people to drop it and set it down. You will hurt yourself if you don’t use 2 people. I don’t love this pinbox and am on the fence about using it again next season.

 

[trailrydr]

I have a thread on the maintenance for the pinbox. It is heavier than 75lbs. You need 2 people to drop it and set it down. You will hurt yourself if you don’t use 2 people. I don’t love this pinbox and am on the fence about using it again next season.

Ended up locking our TrailAir TP out and went with a Demco 18k autoslide instead. Unfortunately costly, but, easier to maintain and dont have to worry about replacement parts/pinbox for a proprietary sized mount that LCI used for this pinbox/RV. Plus, the Demco is alot easier to hitch with over the TP - since using, connects on the first time without having to be aligned spot on.

 

[rsf250]

do you know How Often these pins need to be greased? I am getting a New 2024 150 GD with Lippert Curt Turning point 16K I like the idea of not having a slider, but still looking for Pro/Cons.

While I went much longer than I should have (i.e. 5 years/40,000 miles), the bearing was packed with plenty of grease. I would guess their recommendation is more to cover themselves, than from an engineering standpoint. A wheel bearing typically spins at a high speed for many, many miles. On this turning point pinbox, it only turns from side to side as you take curves or corners.

It's more likely their concern is with the bushing and pad wearing properly. By taking it apart each year you could visually inspect them. Without taking it apart, I would look for excessive play when you attempt to raise and lower the front "king pin" portion of the pinbox.

For new owner's, you may wish to do the maintenance the first year to verify it was greased properly. Afterwards, I personally don't believe it's a yearly task.

In my case, I had to do it as I could no longer rotate the pinbox by hand; each year it got a little harder to turn by hand. The issue seemed to be with the old design. The castle nut was open on the top, which allowed dirt and moisture to fall down the shaft. I found dirt on my bearing and the shaft had become pitted from surface rust. As part of the maintenance, I caulked a plastic food container over the castle nut opening.

But having said all that, and to my surprise, the task was much easier than I had anticipated. (Simply follow steps listed in the earlier part of this thread.)

 

[rsf250]

I have a thread on the maintenance for the pinbox. It is heavier than 75lbs. You need 2 people to drop it and set it down. You will hurt yourself if you don’t use 2 people. I don’t love this pinbox and am on the fence about using it again next season.

If you lock the pinbox into your hitch and support it with plastic leveling pads, you won't need to lift anything. With the kingpin locked into the hitch, i found this to be very stable.

 

[malbert721]

Completed the turning point hitch maintenance today (first one which is late). Initially tried what someone else did by leaving the bolts closest to the 5th wheel in and swinging the unit downward. Unfortunately this did not work. Luckily I had two others helping and we switched to plan B. Removed remaining 2 bolts and placed unit in the bed of the truck. Even this was an issue (separating the hitch from the RV) due rust found once we got it out. Once the castle nut was removed, the two pieces needed pried apart. Lots of rust built up between the plates (some scoring on the plate from the rust) and rust on the base of where the castle nut stud. Based on the amount of rust, decided to use a new bearing which was purchased from Lippert just in case I needed it.

I would say from day one, the hitch never moved freely. Last year (season 3) it seem to be more free but nothing like it is now that it has a new bearing and greased well (bearing and plates). In the end, it took us 1.5hrs to complete the maintenance (probable should take closer an hour without hiccups). Next time I might try the method above with the 5th wheel hitch/blocks.