TV and 5er Combo Question

[Beho2487]

Hi All,

New to the forum here so apologies if this is the wrong group to post under. Family and I are in the market for a 5er and a TV. We are deciding between a 311bhs, 362tbs, and 3704bh. Does anybody here have real world pin weights on these?

I'm trying to stay SRW but after a lot of research it seems that even the smaller 311BHS may max out my payload. The TV is a GMC 3500 AT4 with a payload of ~3,660lbs (what I saw on the door sticker). I'm trying to stay away from a DRW but will get it if the SRW #'s dont work well.

We're looking at a 5 year horizon so max passengers + car seats + misc things inside we're looking at 450lbs. Thank you in advance for all your input!!

 

[jkwilson]

The 311 will go nearly 3000lb pin weight carrying its full load. Don’t forget to include the weight of your hitch in your payload calculation.

 

[lineman1234]

Then there is 3 different numbers. Payload as what can go in the bed. 5vr/goose neck pin lbs, what can go on the pin is not the same as can go in the bed, and the hitch lbs.

 

[JM0397]

My ’21 Chevy 3500 HD has capacity of 4000 lbs. Suggest you look at the HDs not the AT4, maybe you’ll get more capacity. Trim level really doesn’t change anything for hauling capacity, so go with the lesser expense if you don’t need all the bells & whistles.
There’s a website that’ll give you capacity of any truck if you have the VIN, it’s a good tool when shopping.

 

[jkwilson]

Then there is 3 different numbers. Payload as what can go in the bed. 5vr/goose neck pin lbs, what can go on the pin is not the same as can go in the bed, and the hitch lbs.

???

Pin weight is part of payload. They aren’t separate.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Then there is 3 different numbers. Payload as what can go in the bed. 5vr/goose neck pin lbs, what can go on the pin is not the same as can go in the bed, and the hitch lbs.

Not sure what the actual meaning here is. Perhaps an expansion would help me.

 

[lineman1234]

???

Pin weight is part of payload. They aren’t separate.

If a payload of a pickup is 4,000lbs and the pin on a 5ver is 4,000lbs, you couldnt put the hitch in the bed, or anyone in the cab.

So pin is going to be less than payload. So a person can put the 5ver hitch in the back then have some payload left over for people and stuffffff, after the pin lbs.

So its a numbers game payload vs pin.

 

[jkwilson]

If a payload of a pickup is 4,000lbs and the pin on a 5ver is 4,000lbs, you couldnt put the hitch in the bed, or anyone in the cab.

So pin is going to be less than payload. So a person can put the 5ver hitch in the back then have some payload left over for people and stuffffff, after the pin lbs.

So its a numbers game payload vs pin.

Pin weight is absolutely included in payload. You do have to add pin weight, hitch weight and passenger weight to see if you are under payload. If the payload is 4,000lbs and pin weight is 4,000lbs, you can’t haul that trailer.

 

[lineman1234]

Pin weight is absolutely included in payload. You do have to add pin weight, hitch weight and passenger weight to see if you are under payload. If the payload is 4,000lbs and pin weight is 4,000lbs, you can’t haul that trailer.

The payload number doesnt change, it is what it is.

Payload is described as the load dispersed by the total vehicle.

Pin is the lbs on one spot.

The pin or ball lbs change pending on what else is needed to load on the tow vehicle or trailer.

I am not going to bother posting it,,,, ( but ) my 2024 cheby 3500 6.6 gasser has a pin weight number on the door sticker. I have factory goose/5ver prep.

On the sticker ( door sticker ) it sais ( trailering information )
gvwr numbers
gcwr numbers
rgawr numbers
curb weight numbers
max paload numbers

(( then ))
sae j287 trailer weight rating ( twr ) for vehicle configuration...
conventional twr numbers
max tongue weight numbers for that
gooseneck twr numbers
( and ) under the above is a number given for pin, the wording isnt pin its max tongue weight.

((( mine gives a number max for pin/ball, and its not even close to the payload given rating. )))

With that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Im out....................

 

[triplethreat]

In very simple terms. Anything AND everything that goes in/on the truck that is adding weight to the truck, is considered payload. In even simpler terms....what ever the GVWR of the vehicle, shall not be exceeded by the total weight of people, cargo, pin weight, firewood, aux. fuel tank, bed liners, tool box with tools, etc, etc, etc. 10,000 lb GVWR......12,400 lb GVWR.....14,000 lb GVWR.......it doesn't matter. It all boils down to....the total weight of the truck should NEVER exceed the GVWR. Period.

 

[Captcolour]

If your looking at a 5 year plan, get a DRW and forget about it. Will allow you to upgrade/change the 5th wheel without payload issues. Plus your towing experience will likely be so much better with a diesel DRW.

 

[poohbear]

I second what Captcolour said. Get the dually and I will add get an air-ride type hitch also .

 

[Jomani]

Pin weight is absolutely included in payload. You do have to add pin weight, hitch weight and passenger weight to see if you are under payload. If the payload is 4,000lbs and pin weight is 4,000lbs, you can’t haul that trailer.

The newer short bed Chevy’s moved the center point of the 5th wheel hitch and goose ball back behind the axle by about 6 inches if you use the factory puck system. It works great for gaining that extra cab clearance, but it also lowers max pin weight. So, as @lineman1234 was saying, the max pin weight is lower than the max payload.

In the end, that really doesn’t matter because by the time you add passengers and cargo, it is the payload number that is important. The first thing I did when I bought my new Chevy was install a 50 gallon auxiliary fuel tank, filled it up, loaded everything I normally take with me, and hit the scales. When we left on our first outing (fully loaded for a two week trip) I hit the scales again. I was surprised to see that my front axle weight decreased by a little over 200lbs.

I changed over to the Reese Goosebox when I bought the Chevy. While I lost the weight of the hitch, the Goosebox is about 100lbs heavier than the stock pin box. I also invested in a WeighSafe ball with integrated scale so I can always check my pin weight on the fly. Both the ball scale and the truck scale verified that my Reflection 303RLS pin weight is 2500lbs. I was surprised how much I can change the pin weight just by how I load my trailer, especially when I load my generator on the back. I highly recommend this configuration for anyone skirting those max payload numbers.

 

[JM0397]

Speaking of load changing pin weight, it depends where your fresh water tank is, of course, but one simple thing I started doing a few yrs ago is always travel with the water tank 2/3 full - about ~45 gal for me. The tank is low, behind the rear axle so it’s a counterbalance for the pin weight. It also helps reduce bucking/chucking by about 50%, so an added bonus.

 

[MtnGuy]

IMHO, the single rear wheel GMC should work ok for the 311BHS, but a dually is needed for the other 2 5th wheels.

I pulled a 337RLS with a F350 CCSB for 7 years and 22,000 miles. Nary a problem with stock suspension, but I was really close to the maximum truck GVWR. The 311BHS and 337RLS have similar stats.

I am not familiar with the AT4 option, but if it lifts the truck, then it could lead to leveling problems with the 5th wheel and keeping enough distance between overhang and bed rails.

 

[lineman1234]

I noticed

The newer short bed Chevy’s moved the center point of the 5th wheel hitch and goose ball back behind the axle by about 6 inches if you use the factory puck system. It works great for gaining that extra cab clearance, but it also lowers max pin weight. So, as @lineman1234 was saying, the max pin weight is lower than the max payload.

In the end, that really doesn’t matter because by the time you add passengers and cargo, it is the payload number that is important. The first thing I did when I bought my new Chevy was install a 50 gallon auxiliary fuel tank, filled it up, loaded everything I normally take with me, and hit the scales. When we left on our first outing (fully loaded for a two week trip) I hit the scales again. I was surprised to see that my front axle weight decreased by a little over 200lbs.

I changed over to the Reese Goosebox when I bought the Chevy. While I lost the weight of the hitch, the Goosebox is about 100lbs heavier than the stock pin box. I also invested in a WeighSafe ball with integrated scale so I can always check my pin weight on the fly. Both the ball scale and the truck scale verified that my Reflection 303RLS pin weight is 2500lbs. I was surprised how much I can change the pin weight just by how I load my trailer, especially when I load my generator on the back. I highly recommend this configuration for anyone skirting those max payload numbers.

I did notice on a friends 3500 4 door gmc short bed that the pucks and or goose ball spot was not over the axel.

My 3500 regular cab is exactly over the rear axel.

My per the manufacture posted pin on goose/5ver ( on the hitch or ball ) is 2,805lbs, my payload is 4,311lbs, so i run out of pin way before payload.

Being i chose a gasser because i dont want or need a diesel, im sure the same specked pickup but with the diesel will have more pin lbs but less payload.

Thank you for your post.....
My intent is not to confuse payload, as pin is part of that and has been beaten to death hear.
Some people just think payload is also pin lbs.

 

[lineman1234]

What gets strange, kinda,,,, is, my 2024 regular cab gasser 4x4 with plow/truck camper package is rated to tow/pull 200 more in 5ver goose configuration, 18.700, than the same thing specked out on a gasser dually at 18,500. So the dually has lots of pin and payload, but looses on the pull part.


So, ( door jam numbers matter )

 

[RV2600RB]

???

Pin weight is part of payload. They aren’t separate.

Yup ^^^^

 

[RV2600RB]

The payload number doesnt change, it is what it is.

Payload is described as the load dispersed by the total vehicle.

Pin is the lbs on one spot.

The pin or ball lbs change pending on what else is needed to load on the tow vehicle or trailer.

I am not going to bother posting it,,,, ( but ) my 2024 cheby 3500 6.6 gasser has a pin weight number on the door sticker. I have factory goose/5ver prep.

On the sticker ( door sticker ) it sais ( trailering information )
gvwr numbers
gcwr numbers
rgawr numbers
curb weight numbers
max paload numbers

(( then ))
sae j287 trailer weight rating ( twr ) for vehicle configuration...
conventional twr numbers
max tongue weight numbers for that
gooseneck twr numbers
( and ) under the above is a number given for pin, the wording isnt pin its max tongue weight.

((( mine gives a number max for pin/ball, and its not even close to the payload given rating. )))

With that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Im out....................

Post that sticker. I’ve never heard of that. No pic, then it’s just hearsay.

 

[Dan_Frisbie]

I have a 392M, 22.5k max weight, 45’ 11” long.
It’s long and heavy. I have a dually and an air ride hitch and this rig tows like a dream.
Yeah, the truck is kind of a PITA in parking lots and for general running around, but the stability when towing is worth the non-towing trade-off.

Get a dually.