Unfiltered Waterlines! Tell me it isn't so.

Don and Jean

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2014
Messages
20
Location
"Home" is Dacula, GA. Currently working in Waynes
Due to my job I live in my 369RL during the week. It's permanently parked in a RV Park that has become my home away from home. I've had the Solitude for a little over 4 months after owning another for a couple of years. Last Friday I lost water pressure for my cold water lines. I didn't lose pressure for hot water so this one stumped me. Not really knowing where to start I contacted a RV service company here on the site to see if they could figure this one out. He came out and briefly did some checking around and said he'd probably reach out to Grand Design to see if there were some check valves on line that he couldn't find. While we were talking on the phone he mentioned he started to check the lines today but someone had come out to the park to work on the well. That got me thinking and I decided to do a little research on my own. First step was to open up the panel in the basement to see if I could figure out the waterlines. Have any of you done this? Wow, looks like a pile of spaghetti. Lines going everywhere. After looking at the system I started wondering if I was seeing something I didn't like. The main line coming into the RV splits in several directions with one of the lines working it's way to the canister filter which I assumed was online for the whole system. I opened up the canister and sure enough problem solved! The filter was totally clogged with sediment. I replaced the filter and low and behold I have cold water again. I'm a little embarrassed to be admitting that I overlooked this from the get go but there's a reason for me not checking it and it's now my overall concern. The reason I didn't check the filter was because I assumed (yes, I know what that means) the filter system was online for the whole water system NOT just a portion of it. Based on that assumption if the filter was clogged then I wouldn't have any water pressure, hot or cold. Apparently this isn't the case. So what this tells me is that the cold water to my kitchen sink (?) is filtered but possibly nothing else? Why? If you look at the box for a new filter it states the following: reduces the following contaminants - chlorine, RUST, SEDIMENT, TASTE and ODOR, Cryptosporidium, Giardia Cysts, Volatile Organic Chemicals, Cysts. So the other lines don't need to be protected from this? Based on what happened this weekend I'm now going to assume my water heater is probably full of sediment and will now need to be flushed. I'll also be purchasing an online filter for the main waterline to the RV, which is an expense I didn't expect since there's one built in. This also explains why I occasionally get an odor in the RV when I turn the hot water one. I'll also have to be careful when I fill the water tank as it will most likely be unfiltered.

Overall I've been pleased with the Solitude. Most of the issues I've had were minor and I've been able to either fix them myself or the Dealer has been able to fix them. This one is really disappointing and I felt I needed to share this.
 
I always use a Camco in line filter, and a whole house filter in line to my portable water softener. So far no problems
 
I used an online filter on my previous RV as well and was very pleased with how they worked. Point is this one was sold as having a built in filter. No need to add anything online. Tonight I found out this isn't the case. Or at least for most of the lines. To me the main line should have been routed to the filter then any splits should have taken place after it's run through the filter. This way everything is filtered. I may end up doing this myself to avoid having to buy two filters.
 
Thanks for the heads up. That is something I will be checking A.S.A.P. I do have a question though. Is there any logical reason for the water to be routed the way it is in your unit, Don and Jean ?

Gord and Janet Fuchs
Presently in Palmetto State Park, LA.
 
Due to my job I live in my 369RL during the week. It's permanently parked in a RV Park that has become my home away from home. I've had the Solitude for a little over 4 months after owning another for a couple of years. Last Friday I lost water pressure for my cold water lines. I didn't lose pressure for hot water so this one stumped me. Not really knowing where to start I contacted a RV service company here on the site to see if they could figure this one out. He came out and briefly did some checking around and said he'd probably reach out to Grand Design to see if there were some check valves on line that he couldn't find. While we were talking on the phone he mentioned he started to check the lines today but someone had come out to the park to work on the well. That got me thinking and I decided to do a little research on my own. First step was to open up the panel in the basement to see if I could figure out the waterlines. Have any of you done this? Wow, looks like a pile of spaghetti. Lines going everywhere. After looking at the system I started wondering if I was seeing something I didn't like. The main line coming into the RV splits in several directions with one of the lines working it's way to the canister filter which I assumed was online for the whole system. I opened up the canister and sure enough problem solved! The filter was totally clogged with sediment. I replaced the filter and low and behold I have cold water again. I'm a little embarrassed to be admitting that I overlooked this from the get go but there's a reason for me not checking it and it's now my overall concern. The reason I didn't check the filter was because I assumed (yes, I know what that means) the filter system was online for the whole water system NOT just a portion of it. Based on that assumption if the filter was clogged then I wouldn't have any water pressure, hot or cold. Apparently this isn't the case. So what this tells me is that the cold water to my kitchen sink (?) is filtered but possibly nothing else? Why? If you look at the box for a new filter it states the following: reduces the following contaminants - chlorine, RUST, SEDIMENT, TASTE and ODOR, Cryptosporidium, Giardia Cysts, Volatile Organic Chemicals, Cysts. So the other lines don't need to be protected from this? Based on what happened this weekend I'm now going to assume my water heater is probably full of sediment and will now need to be flushed. I'll also be purchasing an online filter for the main waterline to the RV, which is an expense I didn't expect since there's one built in. This also explains why I occasionally get an odor in the RV when I turn the hot water one. I'll also have to be careful when I fill the water tank as it will most likely be unfiltered.

Overall I've been pleased with the Solitude. Most of the issues I've had were minor and I've been able to either fix them myself or the Dealer has been able to fix them. This one is really disappointing and I felt I needed to share this.

Hi @Don and Jean,

Please reply back (or send me a private message) with the last 8-digits of your RV VIN to help us research this for you. Thanks in advance...

Best regards,
~ Janice
 
"First step was to open up the panel in the basement to see if I could figure out the waterlines. Have any of you done this? Wow, looks like a pile of spaghetti. Lines going everywhere."

I've been in there and yes I agree with you, it is a rat nest of a mess.
IMG_2299.jpg
IMG_2274.jpg
But I need to go back in there and see if it is the main water line going into the filter and then from the filter to the rest of the camper. If not, like you, I will have to see about getting this corrected or run a second filter (Camco) coming in from the main line.
 
I talked to Mark Houser and Ryan Prough with Grand Design today. While Mark seemed concerned I can't say the same for Ryan. Ryan confirmed that the only thing that is filtered is the cold water. The question asked to me was why do you need to filter hot water? That answer is quite simple. Filters do more than just filter out bacteria just read the box the next time you buy one. So the hot water system is not filtered for anything NOR is the water holding tank. Imagine the impurities sitting in it if you use it. According to Ryan this is how they come from the manufacturer. And that's the way it is. If you want to change it you're on your own. I pointed out their brochure advertises their product as having a whole house filtration system. What I got was BS about everything is subject change. So with that CYA they don't have to do anything about it. So what if that's what they're telling their sales reps to tell us. Guess the brochure is just a guideline even for "standard" features. Guess I'll be buying online filters to filter the rest of the RV until I fix their poor design.

Needless to say I am not a happy camper.
 
Wow, that response doesn't seem to be the norm. Definitely keep us posted. I'm a bit confused on the "comes from the factory that way" statement as well. Aren't they the factory when it comes to running water lines?
 
Update- talked to Mark Hauser end of day. Looks like I'll be redesigning my system and redoing the plumbing to allow this to be a true whole house filtration system. Good news is they will reimburse for expenses. For those that wonder why this is important to me it's because my FW is permanently parked at a RV Park in rural South Ga and I live in it during the week all year round. They are on a well system that has had problems in the past. I don't want or need sediment or other impurities going through my system. This happened last week and the filter caught all of the sediment for the cold water side. I'm sure based on what the filter looked like I'll need to drain my water heater to get the sediment out of it. I also wonder about water quality at other parks when we travel. I don't like to take chances. Like I said earlier a filter does more than eliminate bacteria. Rust, odor, taste are also factors. You can't boil that out.
 
I appreciate the information that you have shared. My filter system will be modified THE WAY IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FROM THE FACTORY, ASAP.

Gord Fuchs
Grand Isle State Park, LA.
 
It's my understanding the Kantleak valve provides a single inlet for water to supply the cold side and the water for the hot water heater. The 4-way valve on the left in the utility center is what receives the water. When you attached your supply line from the shore to the lower left inlet, it should loop through the filter then into the 4-way valve. Any and all water should pass through the 4-way valve to all areas of the coach, cold or hot. All the splits occur from the value to the coach, cold and hot.

If you find the inlet connection splits before it reaches the 4-way value for any reason, I would attempt to contact Anderson Brass to confirm how this should be configured. Once I have my Solitude in hand, I will be reviewing the plumbing for the single inlet, no splits setup. I intend to replace the factory filter with a 2 canister system (sediment and carbon). We have experienced some very nasty water systems in campgrounds (especially one we frequent for dog field trials) where I have normally hauled my own water in for the event. When the dogs won't drink the water (even with an inline filter), I know it must be bad water.
 
I am tired making things and I only make repairs if I have to. I rather buy the right product/item and pay someone else to fix things. I want to enjoy my retirement, I want to fish, golf, entertain people....and simply live life like you suppose to. .... enough of the rant...LOL...does any one here know where I can buy an inline water filter for my FW ?
 
Update- talked to Mark Hauser end of day. Looks like I'll be redesigning my system and redoing the plumbing to allow this to be a true whole house filtration system. Good news is they will reimburse for expenses. For those that wonder why this is important to me it's because my FW is permanently parked at a RV Park in rural South Ga and I live in it during the week all year round. They are on a well system that has had problems in the past. I don't want or need sediment or other impurities going through my system. This happened last week and the filter caught all of the sediment for the cold water side. I'm sure based on what the filter looked like I'll need to drain my water heater to get the sediment out of it. I also wonder about water quality at other parks when we travel. I don't like to take chances. Like I said earlier a filter does more than eliminate bacteria. Rust, odor, taste are also factors. You can't boil that out.

Let us know what you end up doing - ours is permanently parked as well - we filtered our former rig at the inlet line. For now we will add that filter back, but would be very interested to see what you end up doing for a fix.
 
CloseToRetirement, the way you have described it is the way it should be based on my conversation with Mark. However that is not the case. The line runs directly to the valve and then splits. It's the line running to the cold water that is routed to the filter. My intent is to reroute the system so it runs to the filter first and then from there to the Kantleak valve. This way all of the lines are filtered including the line to the fresh water holding tank. My wife has made a good suggestion that I will include in all of this reroute. Right now the water from the holding tank is filtered after the fact or at least it appears that way. I'll probably keep this set up in place even though that water would technically be filtered twice. But as anyone knows if you let water set for any amount of time you can promote mold or bacteria. While the tank will be sanitized on a regular basis this just adds another step for protection. Sort of like belts and suspenders. As I do all of this I plan on color coding the lines before and after. I'll be glad to share this once I'm done.

Apulido you can buy the online filters in the RV section of Walmart or any RV Dealership.

Don
 
Don,

I am also interested in what type of filter is supplied from the factory. For you as a full-timer, you have water circulating through the filter regularly. For me, I am still a weekender and a carbon KDF filter will be important to have in place to stop the promotion of mold and bacteria.

My planned two canister system will have the sediment filter first with a clear canister and the carbon KDF filter in the white canister. This will allow me some security for a clean system each weekend with driveway idle time during the week. Sanitation is also in the schedule periodically during the camping season too. I don't think I have enough space for a reverse osmosis system in the utility center, otherwise that would be my preferred filtration system over the planned 2 canisters.

I will be interested to learn how your re-routing works once you have completed the project. Keep us posted. Thanks.

Lyle
 
Existing Hose Layout.jpgView attachment 1290

I have diagrammed the layout of the pipe system and have come up with what I feel is a viable option for re-routing the hoses to allow all of the water to go through the filtration system first. While I don't have the amount of replacement hose or fittings figured out you don't have to move a lot of the lines. Here is what I've figured out. If you look at the color coding I used anything with blue on it denotes a cold water line. Anything with red denotes hot. For my benefit and to understand how everything is flowing I've drawn diagrams that show how the water is routed under each of the following scenarios - city water intake, use of the fresh water holding tank, sanitizing the lines and winterizing the lines. I've done this for both the current layout and the way it will work once the hoses are revised. I've also drawn up rough sketches showing what the lines look like around the Kantleak valves. These layouts are in a PDF format so I can't post them. I will be glad to share them with anyone who sends me a PM and provides me an email address. The files are small enough to send across most email addresses and will not need to be zipped.

Now going back to the picture. If you can zoom in or see it clear enough here is a breakdown of the current lines. Please note this is for a 2015 Solitude 369RL. It may be different for yours but I'd bet the layout will be similar especially coming through the valve system.

From the right - Small solid blue line is the line in from the "City".
That line ties into what is known as a 4-function valve. The valve allows it to flow in one of the three directions.
To the left is a solid white line that tees. The white line with blue tape shown coming off at a 90 degree angle is the cold water line going to the filtration system.
The white line that continues to the left takes you to a brass butterfly valve that is the heater bypass valve. This routes the cold water to the water heater. I'll go over that in a minute.
Going back to the 4-function valve. The white hose with blue and yellow tape and the solid blue line with yellow tape coming from the bottom of the valve go to your fresh water tank. This line is unfiltered. Coming from the top of the 4-function valve is a white hose with double blue tape. This line goes to your pump.

Going back to the tee in the middle of the Kantleak valve system and the white hose with single blue tape. As stated this line goes to the filtration system. The white hose with the blue and green tape directly below this one is the line coming from the filter. It tees into the solid blue line that has the sanitizing valve to the right and the second white hose with blue and green tape. This hose flows into the main cold water line for the R/V. The cold water line is solid blue and flows in two directions from the white hose. Part of it flows up into the R/V and part flows down to the cold water low point drain and the outside shower.

Now back to the brass butterfly valve on the left side of the Kantleak system. As stated this is routed to the water heater. Again this water is UNFILTERED. The line at the bottom of the valve with the red and blue tape is the line going into the cold water intake for the heater. The white hose with a single row of red tape that is sort of in the background is the hot water coming from the water heater. The white hose with the double red tape is the hot water line that ties into the red line that routes the hot water into the R/V. Like the cold water line it also flows up into the R/V and down to the low point drain and the outside shower.

I mentioned the white hose with the double blue tape that goes to the pump. This hose would act as the siphon end of your pump system for drawing water from the fresh water tank or from a gravity system outside the R/V. Things like sanitizer or R/V antifreeze or water from live streams or cisterns if you had too. The white hose with the blue/yellow/blue tape is the pressurized end of the pump and is routed back to the white hose with blue tape that is your feed for the cold water into the filtration system. When using the pump however this line pulls double duty and not only feeds cold water into the filtration system but also flows back up to the Kantleak valves and feeds the hot water. Again since the fresh water tank is unfiltered and the hot water line is unfiltered if you have any sort of bacterial growth developing in your fresh water tank it will be transferred into the hot water tank.

The quick fix for this involves just a few steps. (I've not done the actual work yet so I can't tell you how much of the existing hoses or fittings can be re-used. Hopefully most of it will so cost can be kept to a minimum. I've found that with most do it yourself projects you usually end up getting too many of one thing and not enough of another so allow time to make that extra trip back to you favorite hardware store.)

The line coming in from the "city" fitting needs to be routed directly to the filtration system. This is the white hose with the blue tape. The tee from the pump needs to be removed from this line since you won't be tying the line from the pump into it anymore. Since this line is cut to fit the tee fitting for the pump I'm figuring a longer line will be required to go from the city fitting to the filter.

The line coming from the filter (white with blue and green tape) needs to be routed to the 4-function valve where the small blue line originally tied in. This one looks questionable about reaching. I'm figuring Murphy will kick in here and the line will be about an inch or so short so I plan on having some extra.

With these two steps you have now filtered every internal line in the R/V. Next step is to tie the cold water lines back together and link the pump system into it.

The white hose with the blue tape that comes off the 90 degree tee in the middle of the Kantleak valve system needs to be tied into the fitting to the left of the sanitizing valve. This is where the white hose with the blue and green tape coming from the filter originally tied in. This line, however, needs to be cut and a tee added to allow the line from the pump (white hose with blue/yellow/blue tape) to tie in. It almost looks like there's enough slack in the line to allow this hose to be reused as well as the original tee fitting. Who knows? Anyway this line will now serve double duty. It will be the cold water feed for the R/V and when the pump is being used it will not only feed the cold water line but will pump water back into the Kantleak valve for the hot water.

Job complete. Filtered water from the main source.

With that being said I'll probably take this a few steps further. Whether I do it now or not will depend on how ambitious I get. What started this whole issue was when I sudenly found myself without cold water but still had hot water. I discovered my filter was clogged with sediment and in the process I also discovered only my cold water lines were filtered. To me that's not the way a "whole house" filtration system should work. Anyway long term I plan on creating a first, second and most likely third line of defense. First line of defense - sediment control. I'll probably research a system that has a canister for that. Second is the standard filtration for bacteria, odor, rust, etc.... The third one I may look at will actually be a separate system to be tied into the line going into the pump. While this layout filters all of the lines going into the R/V and should make the water pretty safe when you store water in a tank you create a welcome environment for mold, etc.. I don't want this working it's way back into the system after I've gone through all the trouble of trying to purify. That's why the manual recommends you sanitize the system on a regular basis. I plan on doing that but I don't want to chance it in the long run especially when we decide to go on the road. Right now I'm permanently parked so this one isn't as big an issue as the other two are. They are top of the list.

Anyway, I know this post is long but I hope it helps someone. Like I said I've prepared some more detailed diagrams that I'm willing to share if anyone wants them.

Don
 

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