Unwanted Water in the Underbelly - do you have any? Better double check...

[agoutdoors]

I seem to be cursed with our brand new 385TH. First an axle issue, now this...

When I was dealing with the axle issue, I noticed water dripping from between the frame and the plastic cardboard covering the underbelly where the freshwater tank was along with one septic holding tank. Keep in mind I had yet to use the trailer so I had not put water in it. So either the manufacture had for testing or the dealer had. It was winterized by the dealer prior to me taking possession.

The dealer said they checked it out after fixing my axle issue but they said "we saw no signs of water"...that didn't add up with me. After a discussion with GD about it, I let them know I would be doing my own investigation, they said OK and let them know what I found.

I found a lot of water. See the links for video and the below pictures:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt7MDExymiY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbuirEXsnN4
Both of these were taken after some water had poured out, then I decided I should video.



I did some basic testing of water lines and sewer lines with the underbelly cover partially removed but saw now obvious signs of new water.

So with that information, and another phone call with GD, they authorized me to get a 3rd party to come out and take a look.

He came out on Monday and we completely cut out and removed the cover to give us full access to everywhere we needed to get to really so some testing and get our heads into the void spaces.

The good news is we found no leaks in any part of the fresh water system or the septic systems. Bad news is we did discover what we believe to be the reason why there is water in the rear underbelly AND the front underbelly.

(see next post - it appears they are limiting the file size in a post)

 

[agoutdoors]

Here is where we believe all the water is coming from:



The water streaks and lots of rust seem to lead me to believe its been like that for sometime. I live in Washington state...it rains a lot.

 

[agoutdoors]

Here is the other side of the frame that is allowing the water to enter into the underbelly:



2 of the pictures are from the slide rails that are close to the wheel wells. The 3rd picture is where the top of the frame meets the bottom of the actual floor. The road spray from the wheels is penetrating the frame into the underbelly. The space around the slide rails is obvious however we also noticed that where the frame and floor meet is not sealed so water is able to get through that point all along the frame where road spray is hitting. There are dried water drops on the edge of the upper frame (think I-beam). It seem like a lot of water but it must just be pouring in when the roads are wet.

I talked to GD about the findings this morning and other than putting a bead of silicone along the frame and floor point, and adding some foam or silicone the holes around the slide rails where the slotted track is not, there is no fix for this. They said there is not a way of sealing around the slotted track of the slide rail.

So at some point, all that water and moisture is going to start a mold and mildew problem from the insulation being constantly wet. If you have a chance to look at how your rigs are built, there is likely a way for air to end back into the inside of the cabin since there are air ducts to deliver warm air to the spaces to help prevent freezing...thus a possible health issue for those with allergy sensitivity and eventually anyone entering into a rig with that problem.

Maybe I am overly cautious or concern, but to me this seems like a bigger problem that just my 385TH...is this common on more models of GD? Is this a problem that you would see on other manufacturer's? I am going to start looking at a few other brands to see if they might have the same type of problem or if they have a "fix".

If you check your rig's, simply remove a couple of the screws holding on the underbelly cover and see if there is rust at the point of the screw holes on the frame...if there is rust, there might be more going on than you know about. If more people start finding moisture in the underbelly and the insulation soaking wet, we need to all call into GD and demand something be done.

Let me know if I have not done a good job of explaining what I found or if you want more information.

 

[agoutdoors]

Also forgot to mention, it appears that when there is enough water in the rear underbelly, it overflows into the front underbelly as seen in the photo here:



So, the rear was far worse than the front, but there is moisture in the front area also.

 

[thompsjk]

I have been following this since it started. I picked up my 385 last August and on the way home it started raining. It rained heavy for about two hours of my trip home. The day after getting home I noticed oil dripping out of the front compartment and found that one of the slide out hoses had a big bubble at one of the fittings and was leaking. I called Grand Design and got a moble RV tech to come out to my house since I could not pull the slide out back in. When we started removing the front underbelly water started running out. I asked the tech if he seen any signs of leaking plumbing and he said no. He then said it was not uncommon to have water in there and he sees it more offten then not when pulling the underbellys off of campers. We have used ours 6 or 7 times since then and I have not seen any signs of any more water but have also not pulled it in the rain again. One difference in mine and yours is I did not have any water in the rear section of the underbelly.

 

[PolarBear]

Follwing ,,,,Thanks

 

[gordofuchs]

I also had some water leaking from the underside of our 2015 305RE, when stopped at a dump station. In checking everything that I could, at the time, I was unable to determine the origin. When the opportunity presents itself, I will pull the underside down to check. This is one thread that I belive is/could be a very serious one, and one that is undetectable.

 

[Splitsworld]

Ago,

Your videos are nothing compared to my leak..lol. You should see how much water came out of mine! i'm guessing about 1/3 of the fresh tank, and that was before the underbelly came out. (mine was due to a cracked tank)So the gist of it is that you are saying that the water you are seeing in the underbelly is coming in through the under part of the slides? I asked my mobile guy and he said the same thing, basically that it is impossible to really seal the bottoms up and he sees water in these all the time? I wonder why there are not drain holes in the bottom belly. I understand this is a winter package deal but i am thinking its time for some redneck engineering on my part. I am glad i no longer live up in the NW so rain isnt that big of a deal but i will take a look at my slides. there has to be a rubber strip we can use like the side and top of the slides?

 

[CManley]

My last trailer in heavy rain the tires would kick up enough water to push up past the slide resulting in wet carpet (It did not have an under belly). In addition the black material that protected the flooring and insulation was getting pelted by rocks and had started to wear. The solution was to craft inner fender wells from galvanized steel sheets. I added fender wells to both sides (only had one slide out). This approached resolved the water and road debris issues.

I haven't taken possession of the new trailer yet, this was one of the things I was going to look at.

 

[Cate&Rob]

If we can't be sure that water won't get into the under belly, how about making it easier for the water to get back out again? Flush mount duck bill drains over holes at the low points would accomplish this.
http://www.thmarine.com/products/Ae...ain-Fittings/Scupper-Drains/Duck-Bill-Scupper
Just a thought . . .

Rob

 

[offtohavasu]

Nice idea Rob.

 

[Splitsworld]

yeah awesome idea Rob..think i will order 6 or 8 of those up.

 

[offtohavasu]

Without seeing something first hand, it's seems like some sort of rubber wheel well cover will need to be in place. I say rubber because it would have to be able to clear the tires as the slide comes out. Just throwing it out there. Someone with a higher pay grade than me would have to design it. LOL

 

[Splitsworld]

living in AZ has it advantages when it comes to lack rain water. Rob do those devices open to drain water?

 

[Cate&Rob]

living in AZ has it advantages when it comes to lack rain water. Rob do those devices open to drain water?

Duck bill valves would allow water to flow out, but would not allow road splash to get in.
http://www.minivalve.com/newsite/index.php/en/by-type/duckbill-valves/how-they-work

Rob

 

[RamGunner]

In looking at the photo of the track penetration from the wheel well...

I'm wondering if some sort of hard rubber or plastic shield could be made for that point - something "U" shaped with a slight downward slope away from the frame - or a two-piece rectangle that would help shield it top and bottom? It would not prevent everything, but even something a few inches long would most likely prevent the majority from the direct spray.

Certainly enough to let a duck bill valve allow what does make it through to escape.

 

[Mr Lucky]

My last trailer in heavy rain the tires would kick up enough water to push up past the slide resulting in wet carpet (It did not have an under belly). In addition the black material that protected the flooring and insulation was getting pelted by rocks and had started to wear. The solution was to craft inner fender wells from galvanized steel sheets. I added fender wells to both sides (only had one slide out). This approached resolved the water and road debris issues.

I haven't taken possession of the new trailer yet, this was one of the things I was going to look at.

Any pictures of the fender wells you made?

 

[Mr Lucky]

Thanks for this posting. Never even thought of this happening. I will have to come up with something to stop the water from coming in. I think for the time being if I will be traveling in the rain I will wrap some duck tape around gear plate opening. Then when I get to campsite just take it off. Will also have to check area were floor meets the frame and caulk if needed. I do like the idea that CManley had with the fender wells and RamGunner had with the 2 piece shield. During my 2014 season I never towed in the rain. Guess I was just lucky!

 

[ttandet]

Been following this and I don't really see how the duck bill valve will work with the toothed rail and gears it has to seal. It got me thinking that possibly a rubber boot that would attach to the slide itself at the end of the rail and when the slide is closed it would press up against the frame and seal everything off.

 

[RamGunner]

Been following this and I don't really see how the duck bill valve will work with the toothed rail and gears it has to seal. It got me thinking that possibly a rubber boot that would attach to the slide itself at the end of the rail and when the slide is closed it would press up against the frame and seal everything off.

The duckbill valve would go inside where the water that does get through pools. It would allow it to escape before it gets too far.

Your idea of a rubber boot may be a very workable solution as long as a way can be found to affix it so it doesn't move one way or another and either sit too far from the frame when closed, or get so close that it interferes with the retraction of the mechanism.