Upgrade to dual pane windows?

Grim n Hag

New Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2023
Messages
9
Location
NORVA
Good evening all,

Was researching cold weather mods and have read quite a bit about upgrading to dual pane windows. We get pretty chilly here in NORVA/DC and was wanting to know anyone’s experience with dual pane upgrades? Our full time site doesn’t allow skirts and we’re going through a 5lb bottle of propane in 3-4 days. Appreciate any insight yall may have. I know we’ll essentially double the window weight but I’m not worried about that cause I’ll still be under for my 2500HD.
 
Good evening all,

Was researching cold weather mods and have read quite a bit about upgrading to dual pane windows. We get pretty chilly here in NORVA/DC and was wanting to know anyoneÂ’s experience with dual pane upgrades? Our full time site doesnÂ’t allow skirts and weÂ’re going through a 5lb bottle of propane in 3-4 days. Appreciate any insight yall may have. I know weÂ’ll essentially double the window weight but IÂ’m not worried about that cause IÂ’ll still be under for my 2500HD.

I have them and they work great.... But I have read that it is super exspensive to retro fit an RV. Best to get them when you purchase it
 
I don't think the dual pane windows will save you much if anything in propane and you certainly won't recoup their cost. Unlike thermo pane windows in a house there is no air gap in RV dual pane windows. They are two sheets of glass bonded together. A regular single pain RV window is considered to have an R value around 0.7. Dual pane can take that up to 1.3 to under 2.0. Euro style on the other hand do have an air gap but I've never seen published R values for them. Euro style windows cost more and can't always be retrofitted to existing window sizes.

Where dual pane windows are effective is in exterior noise abatement. Personally I don't think that is worth the cost of a retrofit and is better left to new units.
 
Agree with [MENTION=53932]retired_engineer[/MENTION] on cost and performance of dual pane windows, especially on retrofit.

Our Reflection 5er has the 1.5" wall which are thin in comparison to the other upscale GD models available such as the Momentums. To increase our weather performance of our RV we replaced our OEM curtains with 95% UV blackout and thermal curtains which we custom cut and made using a prefab curtain pattern we found at Kohls. Made a huge difference in noise and temperature control within the trailer. During cold nights we also run ceramic space heaters and a installed wall mounted infared heater which allows us not to run our furnace in temps as low as 40 f. Keeps our trailer at a comfortable 73 f.
 
I don't think the dual pane windows will save you much if anything in propane and you certainly won't recoup their cost. Unlike thermo pane windows in a house there is no air gap in RV dual pane windows. They are two sheets of glass bonded together. A regular single pain RV window is considered to have an R value around 0.7. Dual pane can take that up to 1.3 to under 2.0. Euro style on the other hand do have an air gap but I've never seen published R values for them. Euro style windows cost more and can't always be retrofitted to existing window sizes.

Where dual pane windows are effective is in exterior noise abatement. Personally I don't think that is worth the cost of a retrofit and is better left to new units.

Put another way according to your figures. DP will double the R value of the windows. That is signifignant as many coaches have a lot of windows. I have them, and they definantly work well. I had to use a dehumidifier on all of my previous coaches to prevent condensation on the windows in cold weather. I have never had that issue with my DP windows...The only part I agree with is the cost effectiveness of a retrofit. I have read that it is several times more than ordering a unit with them
 
I don't think the dual pane windows will save you much if anything in propane and you certainly won't recoup their cost. Unlike thermo pane windows in a house there is no air gap in RV dual pane windows. They are two sheets of glass bonded together. A regular single pain RV window is considered to have an R value around 0.7. Dual pane can take that up to 1.3 to under 2.0. Euro style on the other hand do have an air gap but I've never seen published R values for them. Euro style windows cost more and can't always be retrofitted to existing window sizes.

Where dual pane windows are effective is in exterior noise abatement. Personally I don't think that is worth the cost of a retrofit and is better left to new units.

I would disagree with several of your statements. There is an air gap in the dual pane windows in our Solitude - you can see it examining the pane/gasket interface around the edge of the windows. We also don't feel nearly as much cold around the windows in the Solitude as we did in our Reflection which had single pane windows. Finally, we had continuous condensation issues on the windows in the Reflection; zero condensation on windows in the Solitude with the dual pane windows.

Rob
 
They are two sheets of glass bonded together.

They are not 2 sheets bonded together. There is certainly a gap in dual pane RV windows.

The difference is that they are not "filled" with any type of gas like home windows.
 
They are not 2 sheets bonded together. There is certainly a gap in dual pane RV windows.

The difference is that they are not "filled" with any type of gas like home windows.

Although not exactly the same as stick built, apparently they can get foggy over time due to leakage. Sounds like dual pane windows also increase ones RV maintenance as well.

https://www.thervgeeks.com/rv-foggy-window-repair/
 
I don't think the dual pane windows will save you much if anything in propane and you certainly won't recoup their cost. Unlike thermo pane windows in a house there is no air gap in RV dual pane windows. They are two sheets of glass bonded together. A regular single pain RV window is considered to have an R value around 0.7. Dual pane can take that up to 1.3 to under 2.0. Euro style on the other hand do have an air gap but I've never seen published R values for them. Euro style windows cost more and can't always be retrofitted to existing window sizes.

Where dual pane windows are effective is in exterior noise abatement. Personally I don't think that is worth the cost of a retrofit and is better left to new units.

There is an air gap in the windows. I have them and while not the large gap like home style thermopane windows fill with gas they do have a gap but no gas.
The big benefit to them is no condensation. R value is not really a benefit since they are filled with gas. Can't say on sound improvement either as it's probably there but how much would be hard to tell without a DB meter and a side by side test.
I will say though that you get a better feel inside with them. The trailer feels more isolated from outside factors. They also are more solid feeling when opening and closing vs the single pane style. If I were full timing I would want them. If I were just a weekend warrior camping in nice weather it wouldn't be worth the cost. Mine were OEM so no choice.
 
There is an air gap in the windows. I have them and while not the large gap like home style thermopane windows fill with gas they do have a gap but no gas.
The big benefit to them is no condensation. R value is not really a benefit since they are filled with gas. Can't say on sound improvement either as it's probably there but how much would be hard to tell without a DB meter and a side by side test.
I will say though that you get a better feel inside with them. The trailer feels more isolated from outside factors. They also are more solid feeling when opening and closing vs the single pane style. If I were full timing I would want them. If I were just a weekend warrior camping in nice weather it wouldn't be worth the cost. Mine were OEM so no choice.

I agree with this. Ill add that when we were looking at buying, the dealership was somewhat close to a highway. We walked into a 303 without dual panes then walked into a 337 right beside it. Woah, the 337 was so much quieter. I don't thik we'd get another camper without them.

Definitely can tell that there's less heat loss thru the dual pane windows. We've camped in 20 degree weather without the windows frosting up. Now the window on the door, well it was frosted solid. Maybe an 1/8" or more.

Definitely not worth the $$ or loss of payload if one is a fair weather camper. I think they were $2200 more and we lost around #400 of ccc.
 
I greatly appreciate all the info. Since we’re contemplating a 5th wheel in a couple years, we’ll end up doing the B/O curtains and bubble foil the windows. Funny thing is, we just found two more problems with our unit, black tank valve broke while full, ugh, and our outside kitchen is leaking into our bedroom. Had wind/rain storm day before last and it flooded our outdoor kitchen, which leaked through the floor into onto our dresser. These cabinets in the Momentum class are cheap as hell, particle board!!! They’ve already started to ballon at the bottom where the water came through. Another reason why we’re lookin to upgrade further and not do the windows.
 
Put another way according to your figures. DP will double the R value of the windows. That is signifignant as many coaches have a lot of windows. I have them, and they definantly work well. I had to use a dehumidifier on all of my previous coaches to prevent condensation on the windows in cold weather. I have never had that issue with my DP windows...The only part I agree with is the cost effectiveness of a retrofit. I have read that it is several times more than ordering a unit with them

An increase from an R value of 0.7 to 1.4 is insignificant particularly is something as leaky as an RV. It will not have any noticeable effect on the OPs propane usage which is their stated goal.

I would disagree with several of your statements. There is an air gap in the dual pane windows in our Solitude - you can see it examining the pane/gasket interface around the edge of the windows. We also don't feel nearly as much cold around the windows in the Solitude as we did in our Reflection which had single pane windows. Finally, we had continuous condensation issues on the windows in the Reflection; zero condensation on windows in the Solitude with the dual pane windows.

Rob

After our Micro Minnie was totaled we looked at many trailers before we settled on Grand Design. A number of these had what were advertised as "insulated" or "dual pane" windows and in every case they were nothing more than bonded glass sheets. I was aware that some high end Class A motorhomes had true dual pane windows with a gap but that they were not used in trailers as the harsher ride tended to break the seals and fog the windows. If GD is using them in their better trailers I'll give them credit. I still stand by belief they won't make any real difference in heating costs. However being a light sleeper anything that helps with noise abatement is welcome by me.

I have never had a problem with condensation on our single pane RV windows. We might get an occasional light fogging but not heavy sweating. The way I control it is when we are out in cold weather I seal the windows and weep holes to prevent the cold air from coming in. My technique is less sophisticated than the window sealing kit linked above and I might try those as it looks to be less work than taping around the movable window panes. Where I haven't been able to control condensation well is on the ceiling vents even when we use vent pillows.

The main problem area for us has been front bed trailers with the gap between the mattress and front cap. This gap ends up with condensation when we winter camp and ruined the mattress in our first trailer. As a result we pull the mattress away from the wall when we wake in the morning to give it a quick dry and let air get in. The 22MLE is the first trailer we have had with ducted heat. I made a mod to run a small duct from the heat vent under the bed to the pass-through with the hope that is will keep it warmer and reduce the chance for condensation between the mattress and front wall. The trailer is in for warranty work so I won't know how effective it will be until we get the trailer back in a week or so.
 
"I still stand by belief they won't make any real difference in heating costs."

Aren't engineers supposed to reach conclusions based on data rather than supposition? :)
 
"I still stand by belief they won't make any real difference in heating costs."

Aren't engineers supposed to reach conclusions based on data rather than supposition? :)

It's not supposition the difference in R values is insignificant. As an engineer I know I can measure many things in a lab that sound good in marketing documentation but have no noticeable effect when applied. I even did some of it in my early years of electrical engineering work. In this case the OP would see no noticeable effect on their propane use by going to dual pane windows. If they want to lower their propane costs closing up the trailer envelope to eliminate air leaks would have much greater effect and be more cost effective than swapping out windows. I don't need to see lab reports to know this.
 
They do, we use this each winter until we get to warmer weather.

Do you have any problems getting the double back tape residue off of the window frame when you remove the film? I've had cases with double back tape where it is very difficult to get it off of the base it is applied to.
 
Do you have any problems getting the double back tape residue off of the window frame when you remove the film? I've had cases with double back tape where it is very difficult to get it off of the base it is applied to.



Goo Gone will remove it.
 

Try RV LIFE Pro Free for 7 Days

  • New Ad-Free experience on this RV LIFE Community.
  • Plan the best RV Safe travel with RV LIFE Trip Wizard.
  • Navigate with our RV Safe GPS mobile app.
  • and much more...
Try RV LIFE Pro Today
Back
Top Bottom