Use of sumosprings voids frame warranty
- Thread starter kenmason11
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This is off the other forum.
kenmason11
Advanced Member
Why doesn't Lippert just add them at the factory and all this would probably be a nonissue. I can't imagine anyone would have a problem with an extra $50 added to the selling price to avoid all this.
Why doesn't Lippert just add them at the factory and all this would probably be a nonissue. I can't imagine anyone would have a problem with an extra $50 added to the selling price to avoid all this.
They were installed in ours - didn't help. Still broke wet bolts, ruined two hangers and 4 springs, and broke the weld on on one of the V-clips. They aren't magical.
Big Bumps, big problems
Interesting thread, Thanks for posting and dialogue. In Feb, '23, while driving north out of Oklahoma City on I-35 I entered a bridge with a huge bump. When I got home I discovered the bump collapsed the rear springs of my tandem axle trailer, broke the LR shock on my truck and broke the belts on the rear tires of the truck. Altogether, so far, that one bump has cost me about $900. I did the labor myself. Troubleshooting the bad tires was a big deal because they didn't show up until I rotated them to the front. One failed in March, the 2nd in Sept. I think I'll be getting sumo springs for the trailer. I already have Roadmaster springs on the truck. I'm hoping it didn't also damage the tires on the trailer.
Thanks again for the post, it's helpful to all of us.
Interesting thread, Thanks for posting and dialogue. In Feb, '23, while driving north out of Oklahoma City on I-35 I entered a bridge with a huge bump. When I got home I discovered the bump collapsed the rear springs of my tandem axle trailer, broke the LR shock on my truck and broke the belts on the rear tires of the truck. Altogether, so far, that one bump has cost me about $900. I did the labor myself. Troubleshooting the bad tires was a big deal because they didn't show up until I rotated them to the front. One failed in March, the 2nd in Sept. I think I'll be getting sumo springs for the trailer. I already have Roadmaster springs on the truck. I'm hoping it didn't also damage the tires on the trailer.
Thanks again for the post, it's helpful to all of us.
I wonder how many of the hanger failures are related to jack knifing the trailer. The sharper the turn, the more stress is put on the suspension. Everyone is worried about hitting the cab and not paying attention to what is happening with the trailer suspension.
Yep - a trailer at or over gross in a pivot turn can sheet the suspension right off.
Najataagihe
Senior Member
I cry "Hogwash" and let slip the Dogs of Debate!
I would like to talk to this guy about how suspensions work and some basic physics.
Sumo Springs, because of what they are (polymer progressive rate auxiliary springs) DECREASE the load on the frame.
Without them, the entire weight of a dual-axle trailer on the frame is supported by only seven points - the four outer ends of the spring packs, the two equalizer mounts between the spring packs and the front hitch.
The Sumo Springs add four more points of support, so you have weight distributed over ELEVEN points, instead of seven.
I want to know how that ADDS stress to the frame!
Because each Sumo Spring is centered directly above the center of the axle, there is no way it can add torque (twist) to the system.
It might form a pivot, if the axles rotate (Heaven Forbid!), but it will not add stress to the outer ends of the spring packs.
Another poster made the point that, by reducing the compression load on the spring hangers, they might be deprived of the support that that compression provides to help the hangers resist the forces of the axles twisting.
Personally, I think those cussed brackets are so flimsy, they will never resist a twisting load, angle iron or not!
If you want to reinforce those hangers, get Mor-Ryde X-Factor Crossmembers and brace them, properly.
Better yet, replace them with substantial ones (thicker metal) and THEN add the Crossmembers!
Because the Sumo Springs are progressive and internally damped (due to their construction), they provide some shock absorption, as well.
Not the same level of absorption as dedicated shock absorbers, but they do provide some damping.
Sumo Springs will not add any stress to the spindles.
The forces on the spindles are going to be the same, it will just be distributed differently when they are transferred to the frame, as the Sumo Springs do not act as a bump stop.
Sumo Springs do NOT ADD CAPACITY to the suspension.
They work WITH the suspension, taking SOME of the load off the spring packs, allowing them to better retain their alignment and geometry.
Bottom line?
As far as I am concerned, the suspensions on our trailers are crap.
If something goes wrong with mine (and it will), I am going to upgrade that puppy into something useful, warranty be hanged.
Warranty work will only restore it to original, insufficient specification.
Forget that nonsense.
As we mechanics have been telling customers for ages, "You can pay me now or you can pay me later, but if you wait, it is going to cost you more".
When your suspension craps out, forget the warranty (unless the budget demands it), upgrade it into something adequate and pay for it, yourself.
You will thank me, in the long run.
Safe travels!
mbergthold
Senior Member
I recall one statement in an aftermarket extended warranty policy that we purchased (and returned within 3 days) that if there were ANY modifications, the warranty was void.
IMO RV warranties should be required to follow the same federal laws and regulations as autos/trucks where mods do not void the warranty.
IMO RV warranties should be required to follow the same federal laws and regulations as autos/trucks where mods do not void the warranty.
Najataagihe
Senior Member
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Well if the manufacturer can prove the mod caused the damage, they won't have to cover the repair. I'm thinking in this case, they saw a suspension mod and blamed it on the suspension failure, but most likely didn't actually PROVE anything. If the OP was willing to fight that battle, they could win, but I'm not sure if the effort is worth the reward and time consumed in the battle. This is a good case for the Magnuson-Moss act, and I'd be interested to see an engineering analysis proving or disproving the suspension failure.
Are these universal or are there different sizes for different rigs? I looked around on the site but couldn't get an answer. I'm still lookin.
Thanks,
kenmason11
Advanced Member
I don't have the time or energy to fight Lippert which is why I filed a complaint with the NHTSA. I checked their website and the complaint is posted and I'm assuming in the discovery phase seeking information from Lippert. When I filed the complaint, the NHTSA said they will look into the issue going back to 2012 if I remember right. Whether or not anything comes of this is anyone's guess but I'm hoping that having the government poking around in their business might force them into upgrading the brackets and suspension. I would add that if you've had a failure of any part of your Lippert frame suspension, file a complaint with the NHTSA https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem#index . Thanks to everyone for your input.
I called Lippert, 432-547-7378, they answered all my questions. Rep knew his stuff and spoke english.
Scott'n'Wendy
Senior Member
Pretty sure they only make a difference on trailers with tall hangers.
Didn't Lippert change hangers around 2019? I have a '20 model and the front and rear hangers are "triangular" shaped vs. the old ones that the vertical part was rectangular and thinner in front to back width. The shape and having more area of the new style hanger welded to the frame was supposed to have beefed up the hanger, and eliminated the need for the V bracket mod.
With that said, I don't think anyone can over do frame upgrades.
With that said, I don't think anyone can over do frame upgrades.
$3859 Sorry that nuts - I just had my frame cracks repaired, frame stiffened, and entire frame sub framed for roughly $1,300. Local mobile welder did it in my drive. Lippert paid for it. In the pictures I sent my sumo springs were clearly visible and they said nothing. I was out of the 3 year warranty too. I did a write up on the GD forum.
Being an engineer I research things, First sumo springs reduce the loading. Your hanger breakage is well known (common) due to Lipperts inadequate design, and caused by stress during turns or axle movement sideways. To prevent hanger breakage you need the V-Clips and add the X-Factor (Morryde) cross braces . I have it at all three hanger locations. Makes a huge difference. I also swamped out axles and added the HD shackles and wet bolts (Morryde) I did a write up on that too. I bent the axles on my Alaska trip. Dexter replaced the EZ-Flex fro free but as I was going to 6K axles from 4200 declined to help. I clearly understood this as I was partially to blame for bending them
Also extended warranty ???? Did you ever call GD customer service. Frames are 5 years. You're also still within your 3 year GD one too.
Safe travels
Being an engineer I research things, First sumo springs reduce the loading. Your hanger breakage is well known (common) due to Lipperts inadequate design, and caused by stress during turns or axle movement sideways. To prevent hanger breakage you need the V-Clips and add the X-Factor (Morryde) cross braces . I have it at all three hanger locations. Makes a huge difference. I also swamped out axles and added the HD shackles and wet bolts (Morryde) I did a write up on that too. I bent the axles on my Alaska trip. Dexter replaced the EZ-Flex fro free but as I was going to 6K axles from 4200 declined to help. I clearly understood this as I was partially to blame for bending them
Also extended warranty ???? Did you ever call GD customer service. Frames are 5 years. You're also still within your 3 year GD one too.
Safe travels
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Scott'n'Wendy
Senior Member
My '21 model has the regular vertical rectangles for hangers so maybe model dependent? But my hangers are shorter than the ones like livinthelife posted. About 2" shorter. The longer hangers give the suspension a longer lever arm to worry the welds/frame attachment, possibly leading to a higher failure rate. I have no data to support my thoughts. But they stopped using long hangers for some reason.
Scott'n'Wendy
Senior Member
No you wouldn't..your eyebrows would get worn out...lolI would like to talk to this guy about how suspensions work and some basic physics.
IMO, there are too many 'techs' out there that are barely qualified to change a tire, let alone a trailer's 'complex' suspension.
Getting an opinion from a 'tech' is a hit or miss affair. You might get one from a good seasoned individual...or he might have been hired last week. It pays to do your own research, into the job, and into the dealer service dept.
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