Warning about use of Sulastic Springs on a Solitude!

[Grandesigner]

Sounds like this case is closed...and stoopid is the cause, lol!

 

[Calbar]

Sounds like this case is closed...and stoopid is the cause, lol!

I would agree. I saw the video as well and can't understand why someone would do what they did, but they did it.

Rob

 

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Yup, you just can't pull these @ 40ft RVs into places they can't go. Turning off a 2 lane road onto a way to narrow entrance road with deep ditches on either side of the entrance. I remember watching the owner use a very large cresent wrench tightened onto the lip of the frame and trying to pry the bent frame back into place, then beat on it with a sledge hammer. I just thought this isn't going to be a good outcome.

Reminds me of a video I saw a few years ago where someone tried pulling their 5th wheel down the needles hwy in SD. Didn't go well. And ruined the drive for a lot of people that day.

 

[Laurie 1799]

I have sumo springs (blue) on my 2019 310 GK. First someone posted they are anchored top and bottom and don’t allow the springs to move. Not true they are bolted to the axle but just rest on top allowing the springs to move. In my opinion instead of the trailer weight having 6 places that distribute the weight they have 10. If the frame can’t stand this I think we have a whole lot more to worry about. My experience after 2 years is they are great and definitely more stable than stock, they also take some of the load off the marginal springs the trailer comes with

 

[TimtheToolMan]

I have sumo springs (blue) on my 2019 310 GK. First someone posted they are anchored top and bottom and don’t allow the springs to move. Not true they are bolted to the axle but just rest on top allowing the springs to move. In my opinion instead of the trailer weight having 6 places that distribute the weight they have 10. If the frame can’t stand this I think we have a whole lot more to worry about. My experience after 2 years is they are great and definitely more stable than stock, they also take some of the load off the marginal springs the trailer comes with

First off I really like the Sumo concept and would consider using if needed.

If a high percentage of the loads go through Sumo and not shared with existing leaf springs then the load at those point(s) could be excessive. This could be caused by excessively stiff Sumo spring, or Sumo spring bottoming out well before leaf springs absorb much of the load. I have not looked into product details and am not very familiar with product so I hope that Sumo and installers have considered these details. Forgive me for not looking into design details before making these comments. Others have wisely described craziness of what has happened to the RV.

 

[Laurie 1799]

When you order the sumo’s they come in different weight ratings. Mine do definitely not bottom out.

 

[Nuffsaid]

As a structural steel fabricator and certified welder for over 40 years, I disagree with most of you. The damage done to the frame wasn't caused by driving into a ditch at low speed. The damage to the frame rail was likely caused by hitting some type of road damage at high speed that initially bent the bottom flange of the frame, from that point on the frame was weakened and repeated contact caused the bottom flange to crack. This probably happened over a long period of time and many miles. More than likely the failure occured at a place on the trailer that was loaded heavier than the other points of contact. The problem I have with the installation of the rubber springs is that the frame isn't engineered to have ANY load placed at that point. If the frame was engineered to take a load at this point a stiffener plate would be welded in to transfer the load to the entire H beam of the frame at that point. Most of these frames are built to minimal structural standards as is. If you ever look at the place where the spring shackles weld to the bottom flange of the frame you will see a piece of flat bar welded at a 45 degree angle from the out edge of the bottom flange to the web to stiffen that area to resist the web (vertical part of the frame) from cracking. The only manufacturer I know of that does a proper structural steel reinforcement of this area is Northwood MFG. They weld a piece of flat bar vertically from the lower flange to the upper flange at every spring hanger. They don't have frame issues! If a rubber spring were to be designed to be in the center of the frame between the spring eyes to assist with load, the frame would need to be reinforced there by adding stiffeners preferably going from the bottom flange to the top flange and fully welded into place to transfer the load of the spring. That is assuming that the thickness of the frame rail is addequate to handle the added stress. Sometimes to handle added stress, the bottom flange of the frame would need to be plated with a piece of flat bar to increase the thickness. As a structural Ironworker/Welder I made many design improvements where the engineers design couldn't be completed as designed. I would tell the engineer my proposal and he would run the numbers to see if it would be structurally sound and then give me the go ahead. Based on my experience, most of these trailer frames are the bare minimum for structural integrity and that is how failures happen. In my opinion, I would never use a rubber spring to increase load carrying capacity placed between the spring hangers. If more capacity is needed get some heavier built leaf springs. I wish that a 4000 lb capacity leaf spring was readity available for our Solitude trailers. I have already replaced my leaf springs that came from the factory because they were poorly made. The spring eyes were not round and the brass bushings were cracked and oblonged after 1000 miles of use. GD customer service offered to supply me with new bushings after I showed them photos. This was at the same time that I showed them photos of two brakes that were covered in grease from the time I picked up my trailer at a dealer 500 miles from home and noticed the brakes on the trailer were worthless.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

... I wish that a 4000 lb capacity leaf spring was readity available for our Solitude trailers. I have already replaced my leaf springs that came from the factory because they were poorly made. The spring eyes were not round and the brass bushings were cracked and oblonged after 1000 miles of use. GD customer service offered to supply me with new bushings after I showed them photos. This was at the same time that I showed them photos of two brakes that were covered in grease from the time I picked up my trailer at a dealer 500 miles from home and noticed the brakes on the trailer were worthless.

I wasn't aware that the springs for the Solitude models were different from regular springs, like those for the Momentum. How are they different? Just curious.

 

[Nuffsaid]

I wasn't aware that the springs for the Solitude models were different from regular springs, like those for the Momentum. How are they different? Just curious.

Most of the Solitudes have 7000 lb axles and come with 3500 lb leaf springs. GD has made available 8000 lb axles as a option and they would have 4000 lb leaf springs. I don't know if the 4000 lb springs have the same eye to eye measurements as the 3500 lb springs. I have been unable to find a 4000 lb spring with the same dimensions as the 3500 lb springs, but I haven't contacted GD to ask them. I have contacted some custom spring shops to see about building some custom 4000 lb springs, but they are pretty expensive. Most people have issues with the 3500 lb springs going flat due to the weight of the trailer even though they aren't at capacity. The Momentums probably use the same axles and springs, but I am not sure, you would have to look at your axle ratings.

 

[Scott'n'Wendy]

In my opinion, I would never use a rubber spring to increase load carrying capacity placed between the spring hangers. If more capacity is needed get some heavier built leaf springs.

I wish that a 4000 lb capacity leaf spring was readity available for our Solitude trailers. I have already replaced my leaf springs that came from the factory because they were poorly made. The spring eyes were not round and the brass bushings were cracked and oblonged after 1000 miles of use. GD customer service offered to supply me with new bushings after I showed them photos. This was at the same time that I showed them photos of two brakes that were covered in grease from the time I picked up my trailer at a dealer 500 miles from home and noticed the brakes on the trailer were worthless.

As to load carrying cappacity, I agree with you 100%. You want more capacity you need more leaf spring, not sumo spring. But sumos aren't installed to increase capacity, they are there to dampen the downward motion of the trailer, they have nowhere near the spring rate of the leafs. They do virtually nothing while criusing down the hwy, barely even contact, they help with bounce and sway on cross winds, bridge transitions etc. And if you drove a sumo equipped trailer through some kind of road hazard that bottomed out the leaf springs and sumos, I agree that would do some serious damage. That same road hazard, if you didn't have the sumos..... the axle still would have punched a hole the frame. Either way...frame damage.
Just FYI, my 2021 303RLS has the frame reinforced all along the frame from 2 or 3" before the front hanger all the way to 2 or 3" past the rear hanger.

As to your bushings etc...that's what I meant earlier about how poorly RV manufacturers execute the tandem suspension. The manual recommends a complete teardown of the suspension every 12 months. Because they know its garbage and doesn't last.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Most of the Solitudes have 7000 lb axles and come with 3500 lb leaf springs. GD has made available 8000 lb axles as a option and they would have 4000 lb leaf springs. I don't know if the 4000 lb springs have the same eye to eye measurements as the 3500 lb springs. I have been unable to find a 4000 lb spring with the same dimensions as the 3500 lb springs, but I haven't contacted GD to ask them. I have contacted some custom spring shops to see about building some custom 4000 lb springs, but they are pretty expensive. Most people have issues with the 3500 lb springs going flat due to the weight of the trailer even though they aren't at capacity. The Momentums probably use the same axles and springs, but I am not sure, you would have to look at your axle ratings.

FWIW, I had little issues finding 4,000 lb. springs for our Momentum. Dexter, Etrailer, and Lippert all had them, but I went with a different seller due to time constraints.

 

[ajg617]

FWIW the Solitude 8K axle upgrade springs are 24 7/8" eye to eye and 26" longest of 7 leafs 1.75" wide. I have two Dexter spares sitting in the pass thru.

 

[Nuffsaid]

FWIW, I had little issues finding 4,000 lb. springs for our Momentum. Dexter, Etrailer, and Lippert all had them, but I went with a different seller due to time constraints.

I just looked on etrailer and they now have the 4000 lb 7 leaf dexter springs available, but they didn't have them 4 years ago when I replaced mine. At close to 190.00 each they are a lot more expensive that the 70.00 3500 lb springs, but they are dexter branded, so maybe better quality and hopefully not made in china.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

I just looked on etrailer and they now have the 4000 lb 7 leaf dexter springs available, but they didn't have them two years ago when I replaced mine. At close to 200.00 each they are a lot more expensive that the 70.00 3500 lb springs, but they are dexter branded, so maybe better quality.

You're right, the springs from Dexter were considerably more expensive than the ones I got, but since Dexter is the one who supplied the axles, I assume, yes I know, they also supplied the first set of springs, and they weren't that great. That's why I didn't have an issue with going with a brand other than Dexter.

 

[Nuffsaid]

You're right, the springs from Dexter were considerably more expensive than the ones I got, but since Dexter is the one who supplied the axles, I assume, yes I know, they also supplied the first set of springs, and they weren't that great. That's why I didn't have an issue with going with a brand other than Dexter.

My trailer came with Lippert axles and springs, and greasy brakes. I am convinced the greasy brakes were caused by human error and not defective parts. Soon after, GD went to Dexter for their axles.

 

[Scott'n'Wendy]

My trailer came with Lippert axles and springs, and greasy brakes.

I know an individual that bought a 2024 GD and guess what? The same guy is doing the brakes....I think two out of four.

 

[Nuffsaid]

I know an individual that bought a 2024 GD and guess what? The same guy is doing the brakes....I think two out of four.

It is easy to get grease on the brakes with easy lube hubs, just pour the grease to the fitting without turning the hub and it's pretty easy to force grease out of the seal or worse yet, pop the seal out. I have disc brakes now, so if I blow out a seal it is easy to see. I always rotate the wheel while adding grease and I only add grease with the grease cap off so I can see when grease is coming out of the front bearing.

 

[Nuffsaid]

Ha, Ha, the 8000 lb Dexter springs on e trailer that were 194.00 each last night are now 178.00 on my feed. I have 4 in the cart, maybe I will pull the trigger.

 

[Scott'n'Wendy]

It is easy to get grease on the brakes with easy lube hubs,

Sure is. I don't use the EZ lube fitting because I gotta take it apart anyway to check the bearings. They shouldn't even have that fitting on there imo. It's not like you should ever add grease between bearing repacks.

 

[Nuffsaid]

My new Dexter 4k springs showed up yesterday as did a full set of 16 bronze bushings. I am still awaiting my new u bolts and when I get done my trailer will finally sit level with my truck. I will lift it about 1.5 inches total. At the same time I think I will reinforce the spring hanges and add some stiffeners side to side. After having my belly off last week, it amazes me just how light weight the frames on these large fifth wheel trailers are. If you ever get a chance, crawl underneath a Arctic Fox fifth wheel and look at the frame. Probably 25% heavier steel and full length gussets top to bottom at each spring hanger location and I don't think I have ever seen a frame failure issue posted on a Arctic fox trailer. Too bad my wife hated their interior design, because I am more about foundation and that is the trailer I would have bought. Back to the 4k Dexter leaf springs, I like the looks of them! The second leaf is almost as long as the main leaf which greatly supports that leaf and should minimize breakage of the main leaf and that is the usual leaf that breaks. As soon as we get out of this below zero weather I will install them.