Water only half froze

[Papaz8]

Hi all-Merry Christmas to all!
So, we had our first couple of hard freezes here in Western NE. Camper did pretty good. Only thing that was weird was that the water lines only froze in the kitchen and the half bath in the back bedroom. Was fine in the main bath with shower. Heated underbelly, heated tanks, wet bay warm. Skirted as best we can. Disconnected shore water and used house tank and pump.
Anybody run into this before? I’ve asked GD for a plumbing schematic but no response yet.
Stay warm, and. Merry Christmas!

Papa Z

 

[jkwilson]

Are you running the furnace with all vents and returns open?

 

[Papaz8]

Yes, all ducts and the one return are open. No blockages of air that I can detect.

 

[RickLight]

After my first freeze, with a rear kitchen I found the water lines ran under the gray tank. While there is some furnace heat back there it's the last of 3 vents and doesn't get much.

I moved the lines (not as simple as it sounds) and added insulation, including pipe insulation that holds both H&C. I also went the extra step of "self regulating heat tape" that I've posted about a few times. I think it should be standard for any rear bath/kitchen floorplan.

 

[Papaz8]

Whew. That exceeds my level of maintenance skills! But sounds like a good fix. Thanks for the ideas!
Cheers
Papa Z

 

[Papaz8]

As an update to this issue, I had a mobile RV tech come out and the problem is the low point drain tubes froze. GD knows this is an issue, as they are too long. Once we hit the lines with a hair dryer, the clog broke and water came back to the kitchen and bath.
We need a fix from the factory, cuz winter ain’t over yet!!

Cheers,
PapaZ

 

[Riverbug]

As an update to this issue, I had a mobile RV tech come out and the problem is the low point drain tubes froze. GD knows this is an issue, as they are too long. Once we hit the lines with a hair dryer, the clog broke and water came back to the kitchen and bath.
We need a fix from the factory, cuz winter ain’t over yet!!

Cheers,
PapaZ

I was going to ask where your drains were located and suggest that might be an issue, but then thought naw, probably not the issue since it was only affecting some of the lines. If you have the time and gumption, you can move the valves up as far into the belly as you can and close it in so they aren't exposed. I can go quite a bit colder since I did that. It's a little more of a pain to winterize, but worth it while we're cold camping. I did a post with pictures a while back on how I chose to go about it but I have a heck of a time finding old posts again.

Edit: What do you know, I actually found it. In case you are interested - it's an idea anyway:

Add'l Freeze Protection - Low Point Drains Mod

We always run the furnace in low temps to reduce risk of freezing lines. It's been great into the low 20's, however, consistently frozen lines in the 17-21 degree range; we don't tend to camp in temps lower than that if we can help it. At those temps the lines do not take long to unthaw once the...

www.mygrandrv.com

 

[Timmer]

Yep, low point drains are a starting point for freezing, this is especially true if you have put metal valves on them (like me). Some have suggested cutting them off right at underbelly level. We returned to MN from TX on Saturday with our last overnight during travel being in SW Kansas. We had freezing and no water at any faucet when we woke up in the morning. I put electric heaters outside under both sets of drains and a little over an hour later water was flowing. I'm sure the campground loved me using their electricity to heat the outdoors but I had to do what I had to do because we also were going to winterize it before we left and it was -3 degrees in MN that night.

 

[Papaz8]

The tech thought of trying the push them up further into the underbelly, but apparently, there isn't enough room. I hadn't changed anything as to putting metal caps on. I've left them alone. Last nite it got down to 6, which is the current temp right now, with a feels like at -1. I left the kitchen sink on a very slow drip and we still have water today. The gray tank will need to be emptied more frequently I guess.
Also, it is a heated underbelly, but there is only one small duct that runs thru the whole unit. By the time it gets to the back bath, it's not effective. So, we were told to run the furnace at a higher temp. We had been keeping it t 68 and using fireplace and space heaters for added warmth if needed. But that doesn't hep the water lines. We ran it last nite at 72. It will be interesting to see how much more propane we'll burn thru ($$$). Right now with avg temps, the 100 lb tank lasts 11 days. When like this, it'll last 6 days or less.
We'll be here in West Omaha til May, so I need to find a fix for the issue.

I'll keep ya'll updated.

Cheers, PapaZ

 

[Papaz8]

So, an update to the update...
GD would not honor claim of low point drain lines being too long, hence the freezing. So, that service trip is out of my pocket. No joy there. But, the problem continues to persist, so this morning I went to Ace Hardware, got some insulated pipe wrap tape and an insulated faucet "bag". The idea of using a pool noodle won't work due to the circumference is larger than those or even real pipe insulation tubes. So the low points are wrapped and covered, so we'll see how that works tonite. I have to get this handled, as the LP cost is killing me. GD really needs to re think their underbelly heating.

Question: Does anybody use an outside space heater to warm under the unit? The freezing issue persists with the 2nd toilet. I think the water line is probably more exposed than the fresh lines, as it runs pretty close to the 2nd black tank drain.

As always, comments, suggestions greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
PapaZ

 

[Riverbug]

If you don't want to try something along the order of what I provided in the link previously, you could consider purchasing a Bilge Heater or similar, and installing that in the belly near the point of concern.

 

[Jims94vmx]

The other consideration is the low point drain lines that "T" on top of the Coroplast. Put a piece of insulation to get lines up somewhat. Doesn't have to be entire length. This will allow more air and heat to go around water lines near the low point exit. Also cut shorter and insulate.

 

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Back east in Boston when I was in the Navy. We found by wraping the water lines with a soft acrilic 1/2 inch clear plastic water line. Wrap it around the water lines with a space every 6 inches. Put a small metal funnel on one end and duct tape a Computer 12volt fan to it. Cut a hole in the heat duct near it and tape the fan to the duct. Leave the other end of the acrilic hose open. Do not plug it. As the heater runs. Air will be forced into the tube and heat the outside of the tube. You can also put a hair dryer to the end of the tube and run it in the morning to thaw. It worked for us in those Navy trailers on site.