Water quit - help needed

rudy558

Advanced Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2023
Messages
34
Hi all,

Been in our new 2023 reflection 337rls a few months. We are first time RVers.

Background:
- Our tank heater has been on for several days
- Our under storage has remote thermometers that say it has been at 45 degrees or higher since we got it
- We have not been able to afford skirting yet

The situation:
- Current weather is 9 degrees with significant wind chill
- The water stopped flowing through our pipes a bit ago
- We checked the nautilus and behind it, no water anywhere
- I tried to pull the fresh water empty valve and it is frozen shut (I’m hoping the freezing doesn’t go too deep
- We have kept the cabinet doors in front of the pipes under the sinks open to ensure warm airflow in the rv

Any thoughts as to what could be going on or tips for what to do is greatly appreciated.

I know it sounds like things are frozen, but I don’t understand how that could be with the insulation and the tank heaters.

Where are the tank heaters supposed to be plugged in at? We received the RV with a few wires in the front most storage unplugged.
 
Hi all,

Been in our new 2023 reflection 337rls a few months. We are first time RVers.

Background:
- Our tank heater has been on for several days
- Our under storage has remote thermometers that say it has been at 45 degrees or higher since we got it
- We have not been able to afford skirting yet

The situation:
- Current weather is 9 degrees with significant wind chill
- The water stopped flowing through our pipes a bit ago
- We checked the nautilus and behind it, no water anywhere
- I tried to pull the fresh water empty valve and it is frozen shut (I’m hoping the freezing doesn’t go too deep
- We have kept the cabinet doors in front of the pipes under the sinks open to ensure warm airflow in the rv

Any thoughts as to what could be going on or tips for what to do is greatly appreciated.

I know it sounds like things are frozen, but I don’t understand how that could be with the insulation and the tank heaters.

Where are the tank heaters supposed to be plugged in at? We received the RV with a few wires in the front most storage unplugged.

Here is a thread posted by Nuffsaid who just went through exactly what you are going through. Pay particular attention to post number 5 and 6 where he shows pictures of his frozen dump valve and why it was frozen. In post number 6 he explains all the steps he went through to thaw out his coach and prevent it from happening in the future.

Froze Up
 
Since you are troubleshooting the fresh tank I assume you're trying things with the tank and pump? Do you have a heated water hose and, if so, have you tried using "city water?" This would tell you whether or not it's the line from the fresh tank or something else. When we were in our Reflection 337 (2015 build) the only lines we had problems with freezing were the lines to the kitchen island - never had problems with the bathroom faucets.

Rob
 
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Thanks so much for all this info!!

New development: our fresh water tank went from 2/3 full to empty overnight.

I know this probably means something major and I’m sick to my stomach.

How can I gain access to where the water tank is to check if there’s water everywhere?
 
Thanks so much for all this info!!

New development: our fresh water tank went from 2/3 full to empty overnight.

I know this probably means something major and I’m sick to my stomach.

How can I gain access to where the water tank is to check if there’s water everywhere?

I feel your pain, I just went through this with my Solitude. What I found didn't make me feel great, but it should be fixed now. I found that during manufacturing the reflective foil barrier was folded under and not under the water tank drain valve, the same thing was found on the fiberglass insulation. I also found that my fresh water tank heater wasn't working. The fresh water tank valve was a highway for ice allowing the bottom of the tank to freeze several inches thick. Since the fresh water connection from the tank is right above the tank valve it freezes up quickly. The heater duct that is directed towards the fresh water line on the tank is marginally effective since heat rises and the problem is at the bottom of the tank. You can place an electric heater under the drain valve on the tank and create a tent to thaw it out and get water flow back. I haven't had any issues with leaks from the plumbing freezing. You could make the tent out of cardboard, but keep it far enough away from the heater so you don't catch it on fire. I installed a larger fresh water tank heater pad with a higher wattage rating and I fixed all of the poorly installed insulation above the coroplast, it wasn't a fun job, but luckily the weather was in a mild pattern unlike this week. Glad I am in the house with the woodstove going, -9F right now forecast to hit -26 by tomorrow morning. I haven't had a chance to try my new trailer improvements yet to see how they work, but I think it will be a huge improvement.
 
Thanks so much for all this info!!

New development: our fresh water tank went from 2/3 full to empty overnight.

I know this probably means something major and I’m sick to my stomach.

How can I gain access to where the water tank is to check if there’s water everywhere?

The fresh water tank on the 337 is over the axles on the driver's/street side. You'll need to drop the Coroplast enough to shine a light up in there. If it's as cold as you posted above, the water probably froze and should be making the Coroplast underbelly sag. Did you hear the pump running at all during the night?

Rob
 
Thanks so much for all this info!!

New development: our fresh water tank went from 2/3 full to empty overnight.

I know this probably means something major and I’m sick to my stomach.

How can I gain access to where the water tank is to check if there’s water everywhere?

Freezing can affect the water gauge. When mine froze up I know I had over a quarter tank and it went to empty on the gauge. I doubt that you sprung a leak from freezing up, apply heat to the drain valve and see if the gauge comes back to life. It will take quite a while to thaw the tank with heat from beneath. You might also want to check your 12volt tank heater circuit for amp draw to make sure your fresh water tank heater is working. You can turn off the grey and black tank heaters and just leave the fresh water heater on and then pull the fuse for the tank heaters and use a multimeter to measure the draw on the ciruit. Most multimeters have a max rating of 10 amps for current draw so you don't want to exceed that amount or you can blow the internal fuse in the meter. The fresh water heater should draw about 5-6 amps.
 
We went to Lowe’s and got some foam board insulation and a space heater to run under the RV. Now we’re trying to attach it all in a windstorm/major cold snap - live and learn!

Should we be worried about leaked water (if there is any - hopefully not!) damaging things as it thaws? Is there anything we should know about safely thawing?
[MENTION=870]Second Chance[/MENTION]: we turned the pump off as soon as the water stopped flowing. We were afraid of damaging it. I don’t see a noticeable sag. I’ll post some picture for y’all’s opinion. Not sure what that means.
[MENTION=6569]Nuffsaid[/MENTION] thank you so much for posting all the info on troubleshooting that! We noticed our water seemed very cold, like “babbling broom on a mountain in the winter” cold, since purchasing it in Oct. We’ve had the tank heaters going the whole time, and it was always cold, even on 45 degree days. It’s made us wonder if the tank heaters work.
Was your water super cold leading up to the incident?
Did your tank sensor read empty?
We’ll definitely be checking on the insulation and the situation under the RV. If they made those kind of mistakes, our RV is under warranty so I hope they’ll help out. We’re quite new and don’t mind a little expert aid lol
Regarding the fuses, I didn’t see any that specified they were for tank heaters, just one for the water heater. Should there be a label for the tank heaters?

I can go get a pic of the fuses if that helps. Though it may take a few due to installing the insulation.
 
IMG_2825.jpg

Trying again
 
Last edited:
We went to Lowe’s and got some foam board insulation and a space heater to run under the RV. Now we’re trying to attach it all in a windstorm/major cold snap - live and learn!

Should we be worried about leaked water (if there is any - hopefully not!) damaging things as it thaws? Is there anything we should know about safely thawing?

[MENTION=870]Second Chance[/MENTION]: we turned the pump off as soon as the water stopped flowing. We were afraid of damaging it. I don’t see a noticeable sag. I’ll post some picture for y’all’s opinion. Not sure what that means.

[MENTION=6569]Nuffsaid[/MENTION] thank you so much for posting all the info on troubleshooting that! We noticed our water seemed very cold, like “babbling broom on a mountain in the winter” cold, since purchasing it in Oct. We’ve had the tank heaters going the whole time, and it was always cold, even on 45 degree days. It’s made us wonder if the tank heaters work.
Was your water super cold leading up to the incident?
Did your tank sensor read empty?
We’ll definitely be checking on the insulation and the situation under the RV. If they made those kind of mistakes, our RV is under warranty so I hope they’ll help out. We’re quite new and don’t mind a little expert aid lol
Regarding the fuses, I didn’t see any that specified they were for tank heaters, just one for the water heater. Should there be a label for the tank heaters?

I can go get a pic of the fuses if that helps. Though it may take a few due to installing the insulation.

Your tank heaters are powered by 12 volts and they are probably not labeled at all. You will probably need to pull the control panel and measure the resistance and/or amps from the Fresh Tank switch.

Note: if you disconnect the output wire from the switch, you should have a complete circuit going to the tank heater (if you can properly isolate it), if you have an open circuit, then your tank heater is probably not working.
 
We went to Lowe’s and got some foam board insulation and a space heater to run under the RV. Now we’re trying to attach it all in a windstorm/major cold snap - live and learn!

Should we be worried about leaked water (if there is any - hopefully not!) damaging things as it thaws? Is there anything we should know about safely thawing?

[MENTION=870]Second Chance[/MENTION]: we turned the pump off as soon as the water stopped flowing. We were afraid of damaging it. I don’t see a noticeable sag. I’ll post some picture for y’all’s opinion. Not sure what that means.

[MENTION=6569]Nuffsaid[/MENTION] thank you so much for posting all the info on troubleshooting that! We noticed our water seemed very cold, like “babbling broom on a mountain in the winter” cold, since purchasing it in Oct. We’ve had the tank heaters going the whole time, and it was always cold, even on 45 degree days. It’s made us wonder if the tank heaters work.
Was your water super cold leading up to the incident?
Did your tank sensor read empty?
We’ll definitely be checking on the insulation and the situation under the RV. If they made those kind of mistakes, our RV is under warranty so I hope they’ll help out. We’re quite new and don’t mind a little expert aid lol
Regarding the fuses, I didn’t see any that specified they were for tank heaters, just one for the water heater. Should there be a label for the tank heaters?

I can go get a pic of the fuses if that helps. Though it may take a few due to installing the insulation.

I am wondering if since your tank froze up if you are still able to use your hose for city connection water? Even in super cold conditions, you can store your hose in the heated basement to keep it thawed and then hook it up to shower and do dishes etc then remove the hose. Make sure to use your propane heat as your primary source of heat to keep heat going into the belly and basement where most of the plumbing is located. You said you bought foam board and a space heater, are you going to enclose the underside of the trailer? This is a good approach, but one I try to avoid because it takes a lot of extra work and this is why I spray foamed my frame rails when I first bought my Solitude. When thawing out the fresh water tank I place the heater below the drain valve and after about 30 minutes with the heater close to the valve, you should be able to open the gate valve and my guess it that nothing will come out because there will be a solid sheet of ice. When I did this a couple of weeks ago I took a 1/4 inch drill bit and drilled into the ice above the valve and I buried the bit without hitting water. It was a clue that the tank heater wasn't working. If there is ice there, guarenteed the feed line is also frozen. With the heater blowing on the drain and the valve open I was able to get water dripping out and finally thawed in a couple of hours, keep the furnace running and the water feed will thaw out quickly one the tank is thawed. Since the tank fill is the same line as the feed, you can't get water into the tank unless the line is thawed out. There is a chance the fuse for your tank heaters are behind the panel that has the switches in there. To test the tank heater with an ohm meter, there should be some resistance between +an- because that is how the wires make heat. Mine had no resistance, but the circuit wasn't open either, so just not heating up or if it was, not making much heat. Checking for amp draw will be the best. On my last 5th wheel I cut 1 1/2 foam board and glued it to the outside frame rails to help keep cold out of the belly. Think of it like this, the frame is a giant heat sink, and there is no insulation placed on the inside of the frame rail, so the cold just goes right above any insulation that is above the coroplast. Same goes for the penetrations for the slide out mechanisms. This is why I spray foamed the entire outside of my frame including around the slideout mechanisms to make the hole around them much smaller. When I had the coroplast down last week I also added fiberglass to the inside frame rail where I could access it and I put a full length piece of fiberglass on the crossmember where it is closest to the rear wall and spray foamed with crack and gap sealant between the bottom of the rear most crossmember and the back wall. The rear most area on our Solitude has always been very cold under the couch and seeing the lack of insulation in that area of the belly makes me think this is why. I also added fiberglass to the frame rail next to the water feed line on the water tank but left it open enough for the heat from the furnace duct that was there to add heat to the line and valve area.
 
Freezing can affect the water gauge. When mine froze up I know I had over a quarter tank and it went to empty on the gauge. I doubt that you sprung a leak from freezing up, apply heat to the drain valve and see if the gauge comes back to life. It will take quite a while to thaw the tank with heat from beneath. You might also want to check your 12volt tank heater circuit for amp draw to make sure your fresh water tank heater is working. You can turn off the grey and black tank heaters and just leave the fresh water heater on and then pull the fuse for the tank heaters and use a multimeter to measure the draw on the ciruit. Most multimeters have a max rating of 10 amps for current draw so you don't want to exceed that amount or you can blow the internal fuse in the meter. The fresh water heater should draw about 5-6 amps.

This isn’t directly related to the OP’s problem, but I would suggest the following for an all purpose meter for diagnosing RV electrical problems, both 120 V AC and 12 V DC. It measures both voltage and current as well as resistance and open and short circuits.

https://a.co/d/hD915qV

This meter does it all, including a noncontact voltage meter. It allows one to measure current without breaking the circuit. However, if you’re measuring an AC circuit, you have to remember that you can’t close the clamp over both wires, or they simply cancel each other. You can only have one wire inside the clamp. The following device helps solve that problem when you are using a plug-in circuit.

https://a.co/d/4dGvLvC

With these two things, you can measure everything electrical you would ever need to check on an RV.
 
Hi all,

Sorry for the delay, lots has been happening and I haven't had a chance to get back to y'all.

Thank you for your excellent advice!

Solution:

It was indeed just a frozen tank, none of the other parts of the system froze. This means that nothing broke and the only money we spent was on insulation and space heaters as advised.

We got Insulfoam R-1.9, 0.5-in x 4-ft x 8-ft Faced Polystyrene Board Insulation and Reflectix 2-in x 150-ft Aluminum Foil HVAC Insulation Seaming Tape - Silver, General Purpose, Easy Tear tape. Note: the all-weather duct tape was useless for us.

We cut the board insulation to fit the RV and taped it both to itself and to the RV using the Reflectix tape. The Reflectix tape worked really well in the 9-degree weather, and we were able to remove it from our RV without leaving residue or harming the RV in the spring. Not sure if that would be true if we'd left it on after the weather warmed up.

We also put a space heater under the RV (under the tank specifically) and let that run 24/7. We had a wireless temperature monitor under there as well and can confirm that the board insulation did a great job keeping in the heat.

We used one layer of the board insulation and a multitude of methods to keep it in place. We get a 40+ mile an hour wind that took temperatures near or below 0 degrees. To keep the board from flying away in the wind, we taped it to itself using an X pattern (my wife is an engineer and says that Xs and triangles are the strongest form possible). We also bought a bunch of the cheap buckets at Lowes, some cheap 4-foot PVC pipe, and many cinderblocks. We weighed down buckets and used the cinderblocks create supports both on the outside of the insulation and on the inside of the insulation. We would make Xs with the PVC pipe and tape that to the backs of the boards, we put the buckets weighed down with rocks/dirt (we had some non-frozen dirt available) as support columns, and used the cinderblocks to achieve the same support pillar situation. This kept them in place no matter how windy it got.

I didn't think of taking pictures of the setup at the time but will try to remember when we put it back up for winter.

Thanks again for all your advice and support, you truly helped my family through a really stressful and scary time!
 

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