What could this hurt?

Extreme

Extreme

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
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Location
Riverside, California
So I'm getting a new 2500RL and been thinking of replacing the Acid Battery with a Lithium 100 Amp, but NOT replace the charger or connection wiring.
I would for now just keep it as is.:cool:

Now I know that the Lithium Battery will not get completely 100% charged BUT I'm told it could get 85% charged on the standard charger.
Which would still be much better than what a normal acid battery can achieve at just 85%. :)

I'm NOT handy with electronics to install a new Inverter and Monitor, BUT I would be happy with a Lithium Battery that was charged up to 85%.
What say you? What could this hurt? :confused:
 
Extreme said:
So I'm getting a new 2500RL and been thinking of replacing the Acid Battery with a Lithium 100 Amp, but NOT replace the charger or connection wiring.
I would for now just keep it as is.:cool:

Now I know that the Lithium Battery will not get completely 100% charged BUT I'm told it could get 85% charged on the standard charger.
Which would still be much better than what a normal acid battery can achieve at just 85%. :)

I'm NOT handy with electronics to install a new Inverter and Monitor, BUT I would be happy with a Lithium Battery that was charged up to 85%.
What say you? What could this hurt? :confused:
Click to expand...

According to my husband, who knows a thing or two about such stuff, that's fine. You may eventually want to have the converter replaced, it's not expensive.
 
Extreme said:
So I'm getting a new 2500RL and been thinking of replacing the Acid Battery with a Lithium 100 Amp, but NOT replace the charger or connection wiring.
I would for now just keep it as is.:cool:

Now I know that the Lithium Battery will not get completely 100% charged BUT I'm told it could get 85% charged on the standard charger.
Which would still be much better than what a normal acid battery can achieve at just 85%. :)

I'm NOT handy with electronics to install a new Inverter and Monitor, BUT I would be happy with a Lithium Battery that was charged up to 85%.
What say you? What could this hurt? :confused:
Click to expand...

From my understanding, it will charge a lot slower with the standard convertor due to the LA profile it is using. A lithium charger keeps a consistant high voltage right up to the end.

As was said, they are cheap and easy to install. Would be worthwhile even if you paid to have it done.
 
How long would it take a Inverter Generator to fully charge a 100 Amp Lithium Battery? Or shore power? Regardless of time for charging would the standard acid charger allow the Lithium to get to 100% ?
 
The BMS on a lithium battery is what determines the charging voltage. It “lies” to the converter to make it think it needs to keep charging. IMO, the idea that there is a special lithium converter is bogus, because there is no standard for how the BMS works.
 
Do you think a standard converter could get a Lithium Battery up to 85% charged?
I know the thinking is since a standard acid battery converter sees a Lithium Battery as always being 100% charged (even when its not due to its 100% continuous output).... so it doesn't see a need to add a charging load to the Lithium.
What are your thoughts on this?
 
If you are dry camping, does the Lithium Battery also run both your AC and DC power needs for your trailer?
I'm under the impression that a Acid Battery only runs your DC power.

And yes I'm a "big time Newbie" on this whole trailer thing.
So thanks to all of you for your help on these questions.
I am suppose to get out 2500RL at the end of March.
 
Extreme said:
If you are dry camping, does the Lithium Battery also run both your AC and DC power needs for your trailer?
I'm under the impression that a Acid Battery only runs your DC power.

And yes I'm a "big time Newbie" on this whole trailer thing.
So thanks to all of you for your help on these questions.
I am suppose to get out 2500RL at the end of March.
Click to expand...

You can’t make general statements about lithium batteries because there is no standardization. What works for one may not work for others. Most are 3.6V per cell yielding 14.4V OCV, so unless your converter provides a higher voltage they may not get fully charged.

You can install an inverter to provide some AC power, but regardless of battery type it takes a significant bank of batteries to supply much power. You still need a source of power to recharge batteries daily, so you’ll have to have a generator or solar panels to dry camp for longer periods. Air conditioning is a major challenge and is generally not practical.

My advice is to figure out your rig while you have shore power available, then you’ll know what equipment you’ll want to run when dry camping and can design your off-grid power system to match your needs.
 
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Extreme said:
How long would it take a Inverter Generator to fully charge a 100 Amp Lithium Battery? Or shore power? Regardless of time for charging would the standard acid charger allow the Lithium to get to 100% ?
Click to expand...
The way I understand it, no. The standard charger reduces voltage a time goes by. So it will never get past 85%. This is the same reason it will charge slower.
 
jkwilson said:
The BMS on a lithium battery is what determines the charging voltage. It “lies” to the converter to make it think it needs to keep charging. IMO, the idea that there is a special lithium converter is bogus, because there is no standard for how the BMS works.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see some references on this.

My charger is very simple it outputs 14.6VDC constantly and forever. Everything else is up to the BMS.

My understanding is that standard converters output 13.6VDC max. LFP reaches that voltage at a low state of charge so they will never reach their 14.4VDC full state. Check your specific batteries for their charge curve. There are other complexities like equalization that can make things worse. This is the best article I've found on the topic.
https://glider-battery.eu/post4-1/
 
RickLight said:
I'd love to see some references on this.

My charger is very simple it outputs 14.6VDC constantly and forever. Everything else is up to the BMS.

My understanding is that standard converters output 13.6VDC max. LFP reaches that voltage at a low state of charge so they will never reach their 14.4VDC full state. Check your specific batteries for their charge curve. There are other complexities like equalization that can make things worse. This is the best article I've found on the topic.
https://glider-battery.eu/post4-1/
Click to expand...

Most good converters put out 14.4-14.7V until the current falls, then they reduce the voltage to something in the mid 13V range.
 
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Your best advice would be to not cut corners. Wait until you can afford complete systems when you upgrade and if you don't how to install something hire someone who does. This will go a long way for safely enjoying your trailer.

Red
 
I've been reading the forum for two years, but this is my first post. I can speak directly to your question from experience.
When I bought our 303 in Apr 2019, Had the dealer install a Lion Energy UT 1200 (for the Will Prowse devotees out there, I know), a Zamp 170W solar panel and a Zamp 30A PWM (again, I know) charge controller. We're still using the stock WFCO converter. I don't have a shunt battery monitor, so this info is all voltage based.
We store the trailer near Capitol Reef NP and visit every couple of weeks from April to November. When we use the trailer it's connected to 30A service, but in between visits it's closed up and disconnected.
Because the charge controller is set for LiFePO, the solar panel can charge the battery to 14.4V, but it takes several days of full sun.
Most of the time when we open the trailer the charge controller reads 14.4V but sometimes it is less. When I connect to AC the controller immediately displays 13.6V. The battery BMS display (5 percentage LEDs) shows 100% at this point (the battery is in the stock battery box, so I rarely check it).
Now for the rest of the story.
A month ago, we went to check on the trailer, flipped a light switch and... nothing. Thermostat blank, no power to the roof fan, awnings wouldn't move. Checked the battery, 22V. Disconnected the battery (I know), 13.8V. BMS 100%. Hmmmm. As it was 20 degrees and blowing 20 mph, I didn't troubleshoot, just closed the trailer and took the battery home with me.
In retrospect, I think I may have fallen prey to the dreaded Red Key Syndrome and bumped the disconnect switch in the pass thru when winterizing in November. Fingers crossed that it's that simple! Guess I'll find out in April.
When I got home I connected the battery to a 500W inverter and a heat gun and discharged it at 35A for about 90 min. The battery voltage was 13.6V and the BMS was displaying 80%. I recharged the battery wth a NOCO 3A lithium charger. It took about 36 hours for the charger to shut off. The battery reads 14.4V and the BMS is at 100%. The battery seems fine.
So, from my experience, there is no reason not to use a LiFePO battery with a lead acid charger. Is it the most efficient way to go? No, but it won't hurt the battery.
Of course there might be a Progressive Dynamics charger, a Victron Smart shunt and a Hughes 50A EPO in my Amazon cart. Damn this forum can be expensive.
 
I would not mount the battery on the outside. Just left for Florida on Wednesday and my battery had been stolen. Cost me $200 for a deep cycle GEL battery. Not as bad a losing a lithium, but I still felt the sting.
 
Hide Battery

BigSam said:
I would not mount the battery on the outside. Just left for Florida on Wednesday and my battery had been stolen. Cost me $200 for a deep cycle GEL battery. Not as bad a losing a lithium, but I still felt the sting.
Click to expand...

What about mounting the battery in the pass-through that’s in front of the trailer? Like in the 2500RL....but not on the hitch area as they currently are mounted?
 
FWIW... WFCO now makes power centers that can charge both lead acid and lithium batteries with the flip of a switch, and they appear to have exactly the same form factor and dimensions as the standard power centers, which should make for a fairly straightforward swap.
 
Biery-Bullock said:
FWIW... WFCO now makes power centers that can charge both lead acid and lithium batteries with the flip of a switch, and they appear to have exactly the same form factor and dimensions as the standard power centers, which should make for a fairly straightforward swap.
Click to expand...

I’m not familiar with this manufacturer....do you have an email address or the formal name of the company?
 
You can mount lithium batteries in the pass through because they don’t emit gases. Do not mount lead acid batteries in an inclosed area.
 
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