Wow speechless on electrical in Solitude 379 FL

Abqscott

Abqscott

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Posts
131
Location
Albuquerque, New Mexico U.S.A.
Took some pictures of wiring and plumbing on my 2015 379 FL. I am speechless. I have been a master plumber, gas fitter, and heating and cooling contractor for 30 years. I would be absolutely embarrassed at the quality of this workmanship. A first month apprentice should be able to do better work than this. Who thinks it is a good idea to hack through pressed board and run wiring that will ultimately rub through causing short circuits and leaks in the electrical & plumbing. I can rerun and protect most of the wire and plumbing behind the bulk head in a few hours. It would take a lot to correct what I believe is beyond that. The difference in this finished product and what it could have been is a few proper sized hole saws and a lot of strapping which apparently is not used much. A residential home does not move at highway speeds nor is it subject to the bumps and vibrations, yet a residential home systems must be inspected by an inspector that knows proper mechanical and electrical practices including proper strapping, pipe and electrical protection along with proper clearances. Most of the problems that occur on the 5th wheel forums fail because of the installation practices during assembly while everything is accessible, it would have added a couple of hours to the manufacture process to do this right. Wouldn't it be great if a manufacturer set the industry standard by doing the hidden work right. Think of the warranty costs this would save not to mention the reputation they would have that would change this industry forever. Think of your customers that won't get stranded on a trip. We hate taking our coaches to the dealer for warranty service and there are very few dealers making a living off of service they make it in sales. 0nce again Grand Design has great finish, but electrical and plumbing are embarrassing. Plumb, square, neat and clean. If it looks right it will probably work right for a long time. Tired of the pump running every time you use water? Why not add a simple residential expansion tank to this system. Not only will you be able to use the bathroom in the middle of the night without the pump coming on, but the water hammer and pump noise will be greatly reduced. Just a thought.
 

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I have to agree. You should post this the tech side of the forum and see what kind of response you get then.
 
Hi Abqscott,

I am new to RVs but was equally astonished at what I found "behind the walls".
See http://www.granddesignowners.com/fo...quot-Sticker-quot-is-a-joke!?highlight=Wiring
I have been involved with boats for years and these "moving residences" have very strict electrical and plumbing codes.
Per the referenced thread, I was assured that this is "normal" for the RV industry.
But, that doesn't make it right.

Rob
 
It doesn't make it right but this is what it looks like on every unit we have had! I am about to get behind our pass through panel myself and hold my breath for what I may find :) That one shot with the electric wiring resting next to the bare, sharp screws is a bit scary!

It will disappoint me but it will not take away from my love affair with this trailer :)
 
I agree poppy. They don't have to all be that way. You can't believe how easy this was to do right. I am not going to keep complaining and when I get some time I will make the needed repairs and share some more photos. I love the rig, but it would have been so easy to make this a 10.
 
But you paid extra to have it inspected and approved to the "RVIA Seal" of approval. That little sticker that is on your door going into the coach cost you about $150 more on your total cost of purchase. It is set in place to make sure this doesn't look like that. I had the same issue when I opened up my basement wall and saw that. You can go check out my post and see the pictures I took as well.
 
Problem is, in the RV industry if you do take the time to do everything "residentially perfect", you couldn't afford to by it.

Time is everything in building them, and GD is already 6 units a day less than the average RV manufacturer. Take even longer, and they may as well be custom builders, building $200,000 coaches.

I've seen what the guts of a $100,000 (actual dealer cost) 5th wheel looks like. and they don't look any different.
 
@huntr70

If you use your truck rather than your house as the comparison to the RV industry, things might appear different.
Automotive and truck manufacturers have used chafe protected wiring harnesses, hose harnesses and secured ductwork for decades.
As well as improving durability and aiding repair processes, this speeds up assembly line production and quality.
I don't think that it would double the cost of a coach to tie wrap and secure the rats nests of wires and hoses in an orderly fashion.

Rob
 
Most automotive (and motorhome applications) use pre-fabbed wire harnesses. Definitely helps in assembly when you throw in a harness versus doing everything separately.

A house is much more like your RV than a car or truck is...
 
The basement pictures of the wiring and plumbing rats nest are a concern. I believe GDRV has a potential significant competitive advantage opportunity here.

Like Rob & Cate who still are boaters, we were boaters (we the performance market) for more than 30 years. Because boats can take severe punishment boat testing magazines clearly hit (then and now) the manufacturers where overall products had challenges and opportunities. Wiring and other lines not supported and not routed in an organized manner were tops on the list. RV’s getting bounced down the highway thousands of miles share a similar concern.

Several boating manufacturers raised the bar and made a commitment to produce even more superior products. They had higher standards and fresh thinking. While these boats (some models) did cost more money in some cases, it was not exorbitantly more and knowledgeable experienced boaters supported (and still do) these companies. Formula, Regal, Cobalt immediately come to mind. They believed that the investment for longer term gain was not only good business and justified any short term sacrifice but was the right thing to do.

The obvious benefit to reduced re-work and time spent identifying and correctly problems was an important result but more importantly customers experienced significantly less problems and had a superior boating experience. What happened next……..less warranty claims, less ticked off customers, less customer bashing of the product, customer/others product and company praise, product sales gains, stronger balance sheets, happier corporate and employees and on and on.

Any business, company, industry, or individual can make the same commitment. It starts with the attitude and fresh thinking that it can be done and we will do it. Detractors are selling themselves and the industry short. Look what GDRV has already done in the RV war……..they can win this battle too.

Dan
 
Thought you would find this interesting. 20,000 Rv fires reported last year. 25% of those from low voltage wiring fires. That is a large number.
rvtravel.com/publish/rv_fires-polk.shtml
Why RVs catch fire and how to protect yours from burning By Mark Polk: Email this article ... Do you know that there are about 20,000 reported RV fires each year?
 
Abqscott - Here's the website with a clickable address:

http://rvtravel.com/publish/rv_fires-polk.shtml

To add a clickable link, click on the globe shape with the chain link at the top of the quick reply box. Copy the address from the address bar of the site you want to link to, and paste it in the appropriate pop up box when you click on the globe.
 
Abqscott said:
Took some pictures of wiring and plumbing on my 2015 379 FL. I am speechless. I have been a master plumber, gas fitter, and heating and cooling contractor for 30 years. I would be absolutely embarrassed at the quality of this workmanship. A first month apprentice should be able to do better work than this. Who thinks it is a good idea to hack through pressed board and run wiring that will ultimately rub through causing short circuits and leaks in the electrical & plumbing. I can rerun and protect most of the wire and plumbing behind the bulk head in a few hours. It would take a lot to correct what I believe is beyond that. The difference in this finished product and what it could have been is a few proper sized hole saws and a lot of strapping which apparently is not used much. A residential home does not move at highway speeds nor is it subject to the bumps and vibrations, yet a residential home systems must be inspected by an inspector that knows proper mechanical and electrical practices including proper strapping, pipe and electrical protection along with proper clearances. Most of the problems that occur on the 5th wheel forums fail because of the installation practices during assembly while everything is accessible, it would have added a couple of hours to the manufacture process to do this right. Wouldn't it be great if a manufacturer set the industry standard by doing the hidden work right. Think of the warranty costs this would save not to mention the reputation they would have that would change this industry forever. Think of your customers that won't get stranded on a trip. We hate taking our coaches to the dealer for warranty service and there are very few dealers making a living off of service they make it in sales. 0nce again Grand Design has great finish, but electrical and plumbing are embarrassing. Plumb, square, neat and clean. If it looks right it will probably work right for a long time. Tired of the pump running every time you use water? Why not add a simple residential expansion tank to this system. Not only will you be able to use the bathroom in the middle of the night without the pump coming on, but the water hammer and pump noise will be greatly reduced. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

We have a 379FL and would like to know how to gain access to the areas you took your photos. My curiosity is clawing at me.
 
This forum will not allow personal attacks, nor will it allow attacks to or from the manufacturer.

Sorry bob, part of the rules!

Steve
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'll echo the disappointment I had on the messy look of the wiring in the basement AND the overall condition of cleanliness. I've had to replace my "kantleak" valve twice now so have had the basement walls off a few times. Besides the wiring mess, there was lots of sawdust and metal flecks from construction. I cannot start to fix the wiring, but it only too all of 5-10 minutes to totally clean and vacuum the hidden areas behind the basement walls. Overall we love our rig. I know it wasn't the most expensive in the industry, but we paid a lot for our "home" I cannot imagine that fixing these small issues would add much to the cost. Plus, they would be one more point of difference that could be used to tout the quality of GD products to the buying public.
 
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